Partially Accepted Redacting Specific Jobs on TAB menu

[Jack Raider]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This suggestion redacts specific information about some of the jobs on the TAB menu.
Some examples (if you have better ideas make sure to send them in the comments!):

General Security Department:
Cadet, Guard, Officer, Sergeant would be displayed as -> General Security
Response Unit -> Riot Control Units or remain the same
Containment Unit would remain the same
Captains and Chiefs would also remain the same

Research Department, Medical Department would remain the same as it is important for leads of these departments to be able to check who and what rank is and isn't on the server (for license trainings, onboardings etc.).

Internal Security Department:
Internal Security Agents, Operatives, Investigators -> Internal Security Operative
CL4+ would remain the same

External Affairs Department would go as followed:
External Affairs Agents, Operative, Senior Agent and Field Agent (because he can be metagamed to be a marksman on surface) would be displayed as -> External Affairs Operative
The rest of CL4+ jobs would remain the same.

SCPs would be changed to ONLY display SCP (without the specific number, which would cut off on hard to detect (for staff) metagaming)

MTF/CI/GOC jobs would only display jobs that are Officer+ (this includes removing juggernaut and TB from the display to avoid metagaming) as usual, the rest would just be MTF/CI/UNGOC 'X' Operative
For example if someone is on MTF Nu-7 Marksman job it would show him as MTF Nu-7 Operative on the TAB menu.
But if someone is on MTF Nu7 Officer job it would remain the same as it is now.
If someone is on CI Type-Blue it would display him as Chaos Insurgency Operative and so on.

EDIT: recruits from both CI and UNGOC would remain the same (for raid auth reasons - forgot to include them in the first place).

D-class personnel would all be displayed as Class D Personnel - so TB, Scout, Brute, Janitor wouldn't be identifiable by pressing the TAB menu.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
No (at least from what I checked).

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Massively decreases soft metagaming that is hard to detect by the Staff Team.
- Gives more immerssion to the server.
- High Staff members should be able to make it happen - possibility of no devtime being required.
- Silent breaches (SCP-035 and SCP-079) become actually useful, as they cannot be simply checked by looking at the TAB menu and elminating them. (Combatives got to check them manually now rather than instantly knowing that they're not on Site).
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Honestly? I personally do not see any other than potential devtime.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I believe this should be accepted due to soft, undetectable by logs or clips metagaming is a massive issue on the server and this suggestion would only work in favor of the server health + would give more immerssion to the experience of the SCP-RP world.

Credits to @Charles "Ze" Whitmee for giving me the idea to post this suggestion

 

[Tryolas_1919]

-support u people are obviously not thinking of the cons of this crap suggestion

 

[Zen]

Just to throw a spanner in the works here.

This change has other issues with it;

1. Staff need to see who is on what job for prevention of rule violation, however this is a first hurdle, this will unintentionally lead to staff also metagaming themselves and telling people "oh yeah SCP-7722 is on" or "Don't worry its only 3 MTF XYZ privates" this also falls onto GMs and Devs who will have the same access, essentially creating a tiered play.

P.S I know staff shouldn't be doing this, however human nature is that it will happen. (Staff as in, Moderation, GMs, Devs)

2. SCPs, knowing what SCP on site is crucial for new players in order to understand the loop, especially if they are in research, hiding this solves one aspect but damages another fragile part of our ecosystem.

3. You mentioned silent breaches being useful, however players now have it engrained in them that any type of breach they check those 2 SCPs immediately, this wouldn't counter it necessarily, however in doing this to combat one problem, you end up with the above problem too.

4. I would like to add you state it would reduce metagaming, I personally disagree on the notion that players with all due respect will call metagaming no matter what (Yes im talking about you deep covers who are disguised as a janitor running around with a CL4 out in the open and looking gobsmacked when caught and then call meta), i feel we will still have the same frequency of sits, and i feel it would also blur into point 1 i made earlier.

The above points are my own opinions and not indicative of a denial / acceptance

1. Could be a system where it shows only the redacted names like described in the post, with staff/GMs/etc. being given a button in the TAB menu switches the display (either for the whole menu or just individual players) to be specific.
2. We already have an announcement heard IC that says "SCP-XYZ is ready for testing" whenever they flag on. This could just be extended to have some kind of display entity or something that shows which SCPs are currently on site, or it could just have another announcement that plays when someone switches off the job of "SCP-XYZ is no longer available for testing."
3. There is a separate suggestion open to change how silent breaches work to reduce this problem, because it currently basically makes silent breaches all but useless.
4. Frequency of sits =/= frequency of metagaming. I know that I myself am affected by seeing the list of jobs online, and I want to avoid doing it even subconciously. Others definitely also are, and some number of them are going to deliberately do so. I'd honestly rather the jobs not be listed at all, so that you can't see ahead of time that e.g. there's a bunch of CI/SCPs/GOC on and so there's likely a raid/breach coming.

 

[Dusk]

Just to throw a spanner in the works here.

This change has other issues with it;

1. Staff need to see who is on what job for prevention of rule violation, however this is a first hurdle, this will unintentionally lead to staff also metagaming themselves and telling people "oh yeah SCP-7722 is on" or "Don't worry its only 3 MTF XYZ privates" this also falls onto GMs and Devs who will have the same access, essentially creating a tiered play.

P.S I know staff shouldn't be doing this, however human nature is that it will happen. (Staff as in, Moderation, GMs, Devs)

2. SCPs, knowing what SCP on site is crucial for new players in order to understand the loop, especially if they are in research, hiding this solves one aspect but damages another fragile part of our ecosystem.

3. You mentioned silent breaches being useful, however players now have it engrained in them that any type of breach they check those 2 SCPs immediately, this wouldn't counter it necessarily, however in doing this to combat one problem, you end up with the above problem too.

4. I would like to add you state it would reduce metagaming, I personally disagree on the notion that players with all due respect will call metagaming no matter what (Yes im talking about you deep covers who are disguised as a janitor running around with a CL4 out in the open and looking gobsmacked when caught and then call meta), i feel we will still have the same frequency of sits, and i feel it would also blur into point 1 i made earlier.

The above points are my own opinions and not indicative of a denial / acceptance

I'm going to respectfully disagree with a few points here.



1. The developers are more than capable of creating a system for staff to use that fixes this issue. Keep it staff-only, give them the tools they need, and let them do their jobs properly. It would simply be a very easy to navigate menu with options to toggle based on job or name.

1a. Staff should be maintaining a level of professionalism and keeping themselves separate from the game when they’re on duty or when the situation calls for it. I won’t pretend I’m the best example of this.


2. This is one of the biggest issues with the server. It wants to be a "semi-serious" roleplay experience, yet all the information that’s supposed to be unknown is right in front of everyone. On top of that, managing this information is entirely reliant on human effort. A better approach would be to make it known that SCPs are on-site, but lock the specifics behind a privacy system.

2a. The core of any good roleplay experience is carving your own path, not just following the most traveled one. The server does a great job of giving players a visual framework to build from, but too often, the paths people take don’t lead to meaningful or positive outcomes.


3. This whole system would probably be unnecessary if the way we visually interact with the environment was adjusted.

4. I think the competitive mindset is what really shifts how people engage with the server from an RP perspective. When there’s an advantage to be gained, people will take it, even if it goes against the intended experience. The only real way to curb this is to overhaul the system itself, make it physically impossible to abuse, rather than relying on people to simply follow directions because they’re told to.

4a. The other potential solution to this issue would be reworking how combat is structured on the server. If the system itself encouraged a different approach, it could shift the competitive mindset that drives people to prioritize personal advantage over the roleplay experience.

 

[NightHawk468]

GENERAL SECURITY - ~SUPPORT
-I don't really see this as necessary at the Cadet-Sergeant level, though I must admit that it'd look nice in the tab menu? Perhaps redacting it for those who don't necessarily need to see the info. Perhaps a Chef doesn't need to know how many sergeants or officers are flagged up, but a member of ISD certainly would to know if certain D-Block activities are correctly authorized. It's solely dependent on context.

INTERNAL SECURITY DEPARTMENT - +SUPPORT, IF:
-I like this idea to a degree, as hardly anyone on the site would need to know whether or not the individual flagged on is an agent, operative, or investigator. I support this IF there is contextual redaction. Anyone under CL3 would not need to know, members of certain departments would not need to know - BUT members of SA/ECW/ISD/O5/O1/A1 would certainly need to know. (On this subject, nearly every role throughout the foundation should be left un-redacted for all members of ISD. In-RP, they would know the capabilities of the site at the moment, and if the appropriate ranks are "available to authorize/perform particular duties".)

EXTERNAL AFFAIRS - +SUPPORT
-See above point for ISD for the most part - though it really isn't the concern of most other members of even the foundation to know off-rip specific ranks of individuals currently present within this department, just the general idea of "CL3" and "CL4". (Minus the point I made about ISD having roles be un-redacted.)

SCP - HUGE +SUPPORT, BUT:
-Do note that there will still be individuals who flaunt "### standing by for testing or breach" in OOC. This is fine, no issues with that - it's up to the individual if they'd like to enact their right to advertise that they're ready for RP. I'd say perhaps those within RSD would have this information redacted. The only negative to come from Research Department knowing which SCP is flagged on is if someone metagames, and tells other jobs who's currently flagged on.

CI/GOC - +SUPPORT
-Really just makes sense.

MTF - +SUPPORT, IF:
-Good idea, only complication is that some MTF regiments may need to know current role availability of their fellow regiments, plus ISD should certainly know current roles being utilized are.

D-CLASS - BIG +SUPPORT
-It shouldn't list brute, type blue, nothing. Just D-Class. Every time I hit tab and see "TYPE BLUE" screaming at me, it's an absolute pain. Find out in RP, or don't find out at all.

~~~~~TLDR~~~~~:
+SUPPORT if certain categories of context are taken into account regarding who should or shouldn't know what within the foundation.

 

[fyzar]

Just to throw a spanner in the works here.

This change has other issues with it;

1. Staff need to see who is on what job for prevention of rule violation, however this is a first hurdle, this will unintentionally lead to staff also metagaming themselves and telling people "oh yeah SCP-7722 is on" or "Don't worry its only 3 MTF XYZ privates" this also falls onto GMs and Devs who will have the same access, essentially creating a tiered play.

P.S I know staff shouldn't be doing this, however human nature is that it will happen. (Staff as in, Moderation, GMs, Devs)

2. SCPs, knowing what SCP on site is crucial for new players in order to understand the loop, especially if they are in research, hiding this solves one aspect but damages another fragile part of our ecosystem.

3. You mentioned silent breaches being useful, however players now have it engrained in them that any type of breach they check those 2 SCPs immediately, this wouldn't counter it necessarily, however in doing this to combat one problem, you end up with the above problem too.

4. I would like to add you state it would reduce metagaming, I personally disagree on the notion that players with all due respect will call metagaming no matter what (Yes im talking about you deep covers who are disguised as a janitor running around with a CL4 out in the open and looking gobsmacked when caught and then call meta), i feel we will still have the same frequency of sits, and i feel it would also blur into point 1 i made earlier.

The above points are my own opinions and not indicative of a denial / acceptance

1. only allow AOD/SL+ to see the unredacted leaderboard
2. can always just ask an scp to flag on if theres none there
3. inevitable
4. inevitable

 

[Aithaed]

Suggestion (Mostly) Accepted.

---

Hi Jack Raider, Thanks for taking the time to make a server suggestion.

While the implementation of this suggestion will differ somewhat from your post, we have found the core idea to have merit. More specifically, we will not be redacting the ID numbers for SCPs as it significantly disrupts the accessibility of the Research department's roleplay, and we have implemented other means of reducing metagame against silent breaches.

Your suggestion will now be locked and marked as accepted."​

 

[Guts]

accepted