Changes to SWB/JAF Anti Air Job

Jimothy Leaderson

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Dec 11, 2021
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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Adds a proximity mine and Timed C4 to the loadout of the SWB/JAF Anti Air Job.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- New incentives for people to play these regiments following a good few nerfs
-Fits our role of paratroopers as they would carry low-weight but high explosive equipment
-Gives our Anti Air job a bit more firepower rather than 'you have a stinger and x amount of grenades good luck'

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
More C4 being carried around by people to kill FOBs and tanks, but C4 was added to STS/SAS Regimental Command jobs without issue so I don't see a major problem here.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
There's been a good few nerfs to heli regiments and this would help, essentially every other regiment besides RMP/AOR are fully kitted out with anti armour jobs (including they get stingers!) and I agree an AT4 would be too much but C4 and a proxy mine would make the job 10x more enjoyable and mean we can be more helpful.
 
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Wolves

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May 14, 2022
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They have been nerfed and getting C4 and Mine could help as rather them focusing on heil/heil battle they could help with Inf wise more.
 

Connor | FUDGESICLE

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you can already utterly destroy anything with helicopters, there doesn't need to be more things for you to do it with.
 

Merlin

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Nov 16, 2022
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I'm struggling to see how C4/Proxy are fitting for an anti-air role. If it's actually meant to be anti-armour then that's all well and good, but otherwise this comes across as seeking a jack of all trades job.
 

Jimothy Leaderson

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you can already utterly destroy anything with helicopters, there doesn't need to be more things for you to do it with.
You can destroy anything, provided you can deal with:
-KWKs that are easy to set up and have insane range and reach especially on places like the bunker hill (NWO helis can get shot down just leaving base from that point)
-Artis which tank your FPS and you now need to accurately hit all hydras on or you won't win due to hydra nerfs
-Stingers that can go silent and not be heard or just one shot your heli and stop the rotor (it has been stated this is a bug but not adjusted for restock rules)
-Enemy helis (it takes a good bit of skill to learn good flying)
-The two flak guns on the map that can hit you from multiple points away and will tear your heli to shreds if someone is a relatively accurate shot

I've stated with Merlin why this equipment wouldn't allow us to 'utterly destroy anything'

I'm struggling to see how C4/Proxy are fitting for an anti-air role.
We are also meant to be a paratrooper force when it comes to ground matters, would paratroopers not carry this sort of equipment so they have some firepower?
comes across as seeking a jack of all trades job.
I disagree, I'm asking for some relatively low level equipment to also help fit our paratrooper role. I don't want an AT4 and I don't see proximity mines as very powerful due to the fact they can only kill 1 person max realistically and may not even kill them sometimes. C4 is maybe a bit more powerful but FOB respawn timers changing means you can quickly spawn on it with good mastery or even with the cap and essentially always use spawn protection to defuse. Vehicles it's not a massive threat you just gotta drive out of the combat area and defuse.

Currently the reward for mastery 15 is just we get a stinger whilst other regiments get an array of new weaponry. Alongside the nerfs it just feels worse and I think generally this is a good way to help our appeal and make it more enjoyable without making any over the top changes.
 

el zapso

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what does this have to do anything with helis, this is just giving more stuff for ground to do
 

Merlin

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Nov 16, 2022
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We are also meant to be a paratrooper force when it comes to ground matters, would paratroopers not carry this sort of equipment so they have some firepower?

You could use the exact same argument for giving this kit to all the infantry jobs. The problem is that giving too many roles explosives makes it dramatically easier to destroy FOBs and vehicles, which in turn messes with game balance.

I disagree, I'm asking for some relatively low level equipment to also help fit our paratrooper role. I don't want an AT4 and I don't see proximity mines as very powerful due to the fact they can only kill 1 person max realistically and may not even kill them sometimes. C4 is maybe a bit more powerful but FOB respawn timers changing means you can quickly spawn on it with good mastery or even with the cap and essentially always use spawn protection to defuse. Vehicles it's not a massive threat you just gotta drive out of the combat area and defuse.

C4 is extremely powerful, and combined with paradrops makes it trivial to dispose of enemy FOBs which aren't being heavily used.
 

Connor | FUDGESICLE

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If NHC / SC don't get a C4 then I can't see why SWB / JAF would.

You can destroy anything, provided you can deal with:
-KWKs that are easy to set up and have insane range and reach especially on places like the bunker hill (NWO helis can get shot down just leaving base from that point)
-Artis which tank your FPS and you now need to accurately hit all hydras on or you won't win due to hydra nerfs
-Stingers that can go silent and not be heard or just one shot your heli and stop the rotor (it has been stated this is a bug but not adjusted for restock rules)
-Enemy helis (it takes a good bit of skill to learn good flying)
-The two flak guns on the map that can hit you from multiple points away and will tear your heli to shreds if someone is a relatively accurate shot

I've stated with Merlin why this equipment wouldn't allow us to 'utterly destroy anything'

KwKs: Long range the FOB radio, if you're being shot down "just leaving base" you can call a sit and get it restocked. Alternatively you can ask 17th or a regiment with a C4 to deal with them.

Artis: Poor FPS is a client side issue related to PC specs, Co-pilot cannon shots do 30 damage per hit, along side pilot Hydras they can be killed extremely quickly.

Stingers: Spin a circle to dodge them while your co-pilot shoots the stinger monkey.

Enemy Helis: Just kill them lol

Flak Guns: I know from experience these are annoying but you can ask a MAJ+ to mark them and just long range cannon them.

I can see where you're coming from with this suggestion but IMO it removes the uniqueness away from regiments if they all have similar/ the same equipment. You get 4 stinger jobs (2 Reg com and 2 AA jobs) to deal with helis as you're a CAS and AA regiment. ISAF, SAS and 17th (And the NWO alternatives) only get 1 job where they can choose either a stinger or AT4, however they do get C4s as their regiments have a valid RP reason to do so.
 

sahns

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If NHC / SC don't get a C4 then I can't see why SWB / JAF would.



KwKs: Long range the FOB radio, if you're being shot down "just leaving base" you can call a sit and get it restocked. Alternatively you can ask 17th or a regiment with a C4 to deal with them.

Artis: Poor FPS is a client side issue related to PC specs, Co-pilot cannon shots do 30 damage per hit, along side pilot Hydras they can be killed extremely quickly.

Stingers: Spin a circle to dodge them while your co-pilot shoots the stinger monkey.

Enemy Helis: Just kill them lol

Flak Guns: I know from experience these are annoying but you can ask a MAJ+ to mark them and just long range cannon them.

I can see where you're coming from with this suggestion but IMO it removes the uniqueness away from regiments if they all have similar/ the same equipment. You get 4 stinger jobs (2 Reg com and 2 AA jobs) to deal with helis as you're a CAS and AA regiment. ISAF, SAS and 17th (And the NWO alternatives) only get 1 job where they can choose either a stinger or AT4, however they do get C4s as their regiments have a valid RP reason to do so.
just a quick comment, its not as easy as "just kill helis" or "spin in a circle". It takes a lot of practice and time to even be decent at flying. Theres bugs where flares doesnt work, silent stingers (usually combined with 1shot stingers), People can KWK across the map due to a. people marking the heli b. people can see the name of who owns the heli when looking at it.
Being a ground unit is useless in SWB, might aswell be infantry.

Adding just a proxy mine then?
If NHC / SC don't get a C4 then I can't see why SWB / JAF would.
 

Jimothy Leaderson

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You could use the exact same argument for giving this kit to all the infantry jobs. The problem is that giving too many roles explosives makes it dramatically easier to destroy FOBs and vehicles, which in turn messes with game balance.
The infantry anti armour jobs possess it, you have two anti armour slots in ISAF same as what we could get access to. I don't think this would have a dramatic effect on balance.
C4 is extremely powerful, and combined with paradrops makes it trivial to dispose of enemy FOBs which aren't being heavily used.
You could get behind enemy lines and do that anyways, we could paradrop other regiments. It's not solely about effectiveness of us in war it becomes more an issue of 'is war fun for these 2 regiments' and with the nerfs and nothing in our favour (vote for KWKs against helis being FailRP was overwhelmingly rejected) it will become more and more difficult for us to bring in new pilots and have them actually enjoy what they do. Even me or other SWB members despise piloting sometimes because of all these issues.
If NHC / SC don't get a C4 then I can't see why SWB / JAF would.
Are you serious? This is just not even a counterpoint. NHC/SC used to have a C4 on the Special Forces reg gen job. At no point in this suggestion have I stated that they shouldn't get C4. You are welcome to make a suggestion!
KwKs: Long range the FOB radio
I shall shoot the underground Bunker FOB very good.
Artis: Poor FPS is a client side issue related to PC specs
A lot of people complain about it, regardless of PC specs it still tanks your frames for most.
Co-pilot cannon shots do 30 damage per hit
30 damage! Only 5970 more to go.
Enemy Helis: Just kill them lol
You were JAF LTCOL, you know that doesn't work in that way and that learning to pilot so I'm not even going to respond to this.
ISAF, SAS and 17th (And the NWO alternatives) only get 1 job
SAS are the only ones who get 1 job where they have to pick. Both 17th and ISAF receive two jobs where they get everything.
however they do get C4s as their regiments have a valid RP reason to do so.
We have a valid RP reason too that I've stated repeatedly.
Flak Guns: I know from experience these are annoying but you can ask a MAJ+ to mark them and just long range cannon them.
They could have a rally nearby which hellfires do not destroy. This would give them spawn protection and an easy respawn. Seen it before.
Stingers: Spin a circle to dodge them while your co-pilot shoots the stinger monkey.
That's based on distance, if you hear in time and it's difficult to manouevre to kill stinger guy. One shot stingers exist.
 

Lee Falzone

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Dec 25, 2020
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Ticks off the originality from ISAF/IVG. Why would i join ISAF if JAF is just an upgrade from a infantry prespective, except of snipers of course.
 

Jimothy Leaderson

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Dec 11, 2021
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Ticks off the originality from ISAF/IVG. Why would i join ISAF if JAF is just an upgrade from a infantry prespective, except of snipers of course.
It doesn't though, the weapons and functionality of the regiment are both very different. People join you guys mainly for a sniper from what I see. We also still have less equipment (no AT4) you could use that logic on why should you join ISAF if 17th is just an upgrade from infantry as they have the AT job but no snipers?