Donator
What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
If at all possible, implement a system that allows things like Google Sheets to retrieve the hours that SteamIDs have been on a job for, in a given timeframe (For that day would be a good minimum, but given the way activity checking works (at least in (UK) E-11), most preferred would be to specify hours, but make that part of the call optional).
The process would ideally look something like:
The process would ideally look something like:
- A department's roster makes an API call to the server (I think we would need some kind of basic support on how to set up this call, maybe a guide if possible?), provides a timeframe, a list of SteamIDs and I guess some kind of ID that refers to departmental/regimental jobgroup (E-11, Nu7, DEA, etc.)?, i.e.:
For the date of 01/01/1970 [and optionally, between the hours of say, 14:00 & 20:00], provide the hours on E-11 for STEAM_A:X:XXXXXXX, STEAM_B:X:XXXXXXX & STEAM_C:X:XXXXXXX.
- Server returns the date, SteamID & the hours that SteamID has played that job during the supplied timeframe (without including time marked as AFK if possible), i.e.:
01/01/1970, STEAM_A:X:XXXXXXX, 3.85
01/01/1970, STEAM_B:X:XXXXXXX, 0 [maybe don't return ones with 0 or less hours (yes, "less than 0" sounds stupid, but is probably entirely possible, knowing all the systems we work with)]
01/01/1970, STEAM_C:X:XXXXXXX, 0.75
01/01/1970, E-11, STEAM_A:X:XXXXXXX, 3.85
01/01/1970, Nu7, STEAM_Z:X:XXXXXXX, 11
01/01/1970, DEA, STEAM_H:X:XXXXXXX, 6.7
01/01/1970, E-11, STEAM_B:X:XXXXXXX, 2.6
and so on.
Departmental and regimental spreadsheets would then from that, just look at the ones relevant to their department/regiment. This method would mean not having to distribute the method for making API calls to the server and decrease the likelihood that it could be abused by a malicious actor.Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Closest previous suggestion I could find was this accepted suggestion from Kwan (presently in the Dev Tracker Backlog) about making /vtime display job-specific time - This suggestion is sort of querying and if possible, suggesting to create a way of externally retrieving a given SteamID's time spent on a job (likely via an API call). Additionally, their suggestion reasoning is more about presenting that information in applications for positions, whereas mine is about using that data in activity logging.
Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
The option of being able to automate activity logging in this manner would improve the following for departments that choose to implement it:
- Increased appealability of being in a department/regiment & Convenience for the individual - Where some departments have to currently manually log hours with forms (or however other departments the track activity do it; I know (UK) CI right now uses the built-in regimental activity thing that shows how many days ago someone was online which really only works for them, as there are only CI jobs in the CI faction (assuming that only tracks when you were last in the faction, if it checks when you were last on the server, then... I mean it still works for them to see if that person is active, but it's still imprecise to the level where it's inappropriate for some use cases, such as in (UK) E-11 where we want to make sure you're active on the job)), this expectation placed on players from department leadership to regularly clock in hours typically discourages them from wanting to stay in that department/regiment, as the chore is too bothersome for them, which prevents that department from having as populous as it could be and is ultimately an impact on server health - Players may also have commitments to other roles and positions they have in the server, especially staff (Draw a Venn Diagram of staff members and MTF operatives and be surprised how populous the middle section is) who have to do a lot already without the added responsibilities of being in an MTF (an in UK E-11, logging your hours is one of those responsibilities). Implementing automation of activity logging overcomes this issue.
- Improved means to track activity on a job - In addition to current departments that track activity, the possibility for automatic tracking enables potential solutions for other departments that would like to track activity, but are already doing too much and would find the prospect of having to manually log hours otherwise unwieldy or unreasonable to implement.
- Harder to fake hours - Switching from manual hour logging to automatic hour logging means that someone can't forge the amount of hours they played for, the later point about abuse not withstanding.
- Impossible to forget to log - Can't forget to log hours if they're done for you.
- Decreased/complete elimination of roster griefing - Since it would be based on an in-game activity and you can't manually log hours after the switch, someone (especially any discharged person that still has the form link - or anyone that's like otherwise received the form from being given the link - ideally people shouldn't just be distributing activity form links like that for this reason but it's not like we can stop someone from just flagging d-class and throwing it out in chat for people to grief: i mean, if we (the CO team) find out that someone's doing that, that's 100% a blacklist, but again, we can't stop it from happening) can't then just fill out the activity forms with IDs of people currently on the roster and a bajillion hours. This has been an occurring issue with (UK) E-11 and (UK) Nu-7 in the past and so far our only solve is to delete the relevant logs; Recently we (E-11) ended up just making a new form altogether because it became an increasingly recurring issue. And of course, new official document, new ownership transfer request to Ventz. Which leads into my next point:
- Less document transfer requests for Ventz - So ignoring the one spreadsheet for the alternative method of getting that data to the departmental spreadsheet as detailed above for now (which Ventz would also need to own), Ventz has to own every official form or GDrive resource, including things created for things like activity logging. Again, not sure how other departments do it, but it's likely that Ventz needs to own that material, too.
- Less VTime check sits for staff - Frees up staff time to do other important things and might also make staff work less dull if they're getting a bunch of these.
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Dev time to implement - Might not even be possible, fully understand if so.
- Ability of department to implement this into their roster if they want to - Ideally this shouldn't be the case with a well-written enough guide, but I get that not everyone can roster good.
- API calls - Depending on how it's implemented on the roster side, might be too much traffic. Would have to be set up right and responsibly. Also depending on distribution, that API call could be used improperly and is an avenue for a DDoS attack.
- In-game abuse - It would be easier to cheat the system by just sitting AFK/otherwise doing nothing on a job for the required amount of hours instead of doing what they're supposed to; But the onus for catching and dealing with this is on the individual departments - Same as when if someone tries to fake their logs. This is an IC issue and should be dealt with as such.
- Underutilisation - It's possible that not enough departments would use this system to warrant its implementation.
Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
It's time to discuss the elephant in the room.At least in UK, the biggest thing holding a significant portion of people back from joining departments/regiments that have activity requirements, is after putting the hours in, having to log those hours with their department. We recently cut down our activity logging form in UK E-11 to just date, SteamID and hours a few months back and that has improved things, but the prospect still seems unsavoury to a lot of people. I have had recruits actually ask me if I was joking, when I told them that they have to log hours.
If this is at all possible, please pursue this with urgency. I get this sounds weird coming from the best performing department on the UK server right now and while I'm always looking for ways to improve, I'm also looking at things holding us back. This is one of them.
Last edited:
Trial Game Master
Developer
Mapping Team
Programming Team