Moon's ban appeal

[Moon]

Your in-game name: Moon 'Ratman' Tzu
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:523185068
Your steam community link: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561199006635865/
Date of ban: 03/06/2023
What is your exact ban reason (shows when you try to connect): Inciting Hyseria | Winkie <-- Also banned on Discord/TS
Who banned you: Winkie
Ban length?: 2 weeks
What server were you banned on?: (SCP-RP UK or SCP-RP USA): UK
Link a copy of the in-game rules here (the url): https://www.civilgamers.com/community/threads/scp-rp-rules.2244/
What will you do to stop this from happening again: I will not share any more sensitive images of previous or current CN staff and stay away from people who are sharing these images or videos.
Prior to this, have you ever been warned/kicked/banned?
June 17th ERP warning
June 18th XP farm Ban
June 21st ERP warning
Jul 7th RDM warning
Aug 4th FailRP warning
Somewhere in November chatspam warning
Why should you be unbanned: According to the SCP-RP Rules, nowhere does it say that I am not allowed to share or talk about images about previous staff members committing illegal acts in my own PRIVATE discord server. This was completely shared outside of SCP-RP and a server that has NOTHING to do with CN at all. Also, nowhere does it say in the rules that "Withholding information" is against the rules. I personally feel that I do not need to disclose who the members in my private Discord servers are to NL.
How can you ensure that you won't break any other rule?: I will stay away from people that are sharing information like that and not share it with other people.
Why do you want to rejoin this server?: Since I was a E-11 MAJ and was doing a lot for the regiment, I'd like to rejoin and possibly regain/re-earn my rank and enjoy the server once again.

 

[Winkie]

Hi @Moon ,

Thanks for taking the time to make an appeal.

I will be speaking on behalf of myself and network leadership. You recently acquired screenshots from a blacklisted member which could potentially put this community within harms way. That is your choice and freedom to share this information; however, when you share these images with members of our community, you are not only contributing to inciting hysteria; you are also putting the community we all love, including your friends you have met here, at risk. If you acquire information which is serious, a concern legally, there is an expectancy you report this information so we can protect our members of the community. We haven't been dishonest with how we approach these sensitive situations, we deal with things internally to make sure legal embodiments can investigate with ease. We ask you to give us this information to make sure justice is brought upon community members which have done criminal acts within our community.

So when I asked you to tell me who you gave the screenshots to, you refuted. That within itself tells me you have wrong intentions on the server. Like I said previously it's up to you what you do with them just not within our community. The screenshots you have shared have been reported to local authorities and escalation methods are put in place. When you run around sharing these screenshots it makes our lives a lot harder and for the authorities too. In the foreseeable future, it's important to report these acts to us so we are aware and that we can safeguard the community to employ prevention methods.

If you withhold information, which is serious and perverts the course of justice, you can also be liable for your actions, that does not mean you are forced to give us information. As stated beforehand, it comes of very entitled when we run the community. Luckily we already know the information regarding it. We will await the executive teams judgement.

Kind Regards,
Winkie

 

[Moon]

Hi Winkie,

I’d formally like to start this off by personally thanking you yourself for taking the time out of your day to write a response to my appeal.

—---------------------------------------------Response to comment—----------------------------------------------
I in the moment of posting the aforementioned screenshots was unaware of the severity, seriousness and consequences regarding my actions, this I must admit is due to my own disregard to potential damage and harm that could’ve been done to the server and community that of which me and you both can to a certain degree say that we love, which I feel is certainly clear when you look at the facts:

A. That I’ve made a ban appeal which in itself, or at least so I believe is more than enough proof that I regret what I’ve done and wish to better myself and hopefully the community towards a better light, in the aforementioned I admit to my own mistake and of which I’m willing to take full responsibility of.

B. I’ve spent more than enough hours of my own time to play and interact with the server along with its community to rule out any possibilities that I simply was a troller who did this with nothing but ill intent in mind.

C. Due to being caught up in the moment and not wanting to cause any further more trouble for the individuals you are friends with whom I also shared the screenshots with, unfortunately without the regard to the severity of the situation, I decided to refuse to share any further information about the individuals involved

D. Furthermore I personally have near to no say nor control when it comes to what happens regarding the usage of the screenshots by the other members. However, banning me personally doesn’t really make sense since it wouldn’t stop the blacklisted individual if they really wanted to from sharing the screenshots directly with other members of the community.

—---------------------Continuation on why I disagree with the decision to ban me—----------------------

Furthermore along with my response to your comments, clarifications and information regarding the situation that you brought up, I’d like to continue on why I believe that the ban was unfair.

1. Lack of Relevance: The subject matter leading to my ban has no direct connection to the current staff team of CivilNetworks. I think we can both agree that it is crucial to consider the context and relevance of the incident before imposing any punishments.

1. Absence of Affiliation: The server in which the incident occurred is entirely separate from any of the official CivilNetworks Discord Servers, Forums and Teamspeak channels, and you won’t find any trace of its existence within any of them.

1. Fairness and Consistency: In order to maintain the integrity of your platform and ensure equal treatment for all users, it is imperative to apply moderation policies consistently and fairly. Banning me for an unrelated incident sets a concerning precedent and undermines the trust that we as users have in your system, there is quite literally nowhere in the ruleset where I was able to find the rule against “Inciting Hysteria” nor “Withholding information.”.

 

[Winkie]

Hi Winkie,

I’d formally like to start this off by personally thanking you yourself for taking the time out of your day to write a response to my appeal.

—---------------------------------------------Response to comment—----------------------------------------------
I in the moment of posting the aforementioned screenshots was unaware of the severity, seriousness and consequences regarding my actions, this I must admit is due to my own disregard to potential damage and harm that could’ve been done to the server and community that of which me and you both can to a certain degree say that we love, which I feel is certainly clear when you look at the facts:

A. That I’ve made a ban appeal which in itself, or at least so I believe is more than enough proof that I regret what I’ve done and wish to better myself and hopefully the community towards a better light, in the aforementioned I admit to my own mistake and of which I’m willing to take full responsibility of.

B. I’ve spent more than enough hours of my own time to play and interact with the server along with its community to rule out any possibilities that I simply was a troller who did this with nothing but ill intent in mind.

C. Due to being caught up in the moment and not wanting to cause any further more trouble for the individuals you are friends with whom I also shared the screenshots with, unfortunately without the regard to the severity of the situation, I decided to refuse to share any further information about the individuals involved

D. Furthermore I personally have near to no say nor control when it comes to what happens regarding the usage of the screenshots by the other members. However, banning me personally doesn’t really make sense since it wouldn’t stop the blacklisted individual if they really wanted to from sharing the screenshots directly with other members of the community.

—---------------------Continuation on why I disagree with the decision to ban me—----------------------

Furthermore along with my response to your comments, clarifications and information regarding the situation that you brought up, I’d like to continue on why I believe that the ban was unfair.

1. Lack of Relevance: The subject matter leading to my ban has no direct connection to the current staff team of CivilNetworks. I think we can both agree that it is crucial to consider the context and relevance of the incident before imposing any punishments.

1. Absence of Affiliation: The server in which the incident occurred is entirely separate from any of the official CivilNetworks Discord Servers, Forums and Teamspeak channels, and you won’t find any trace of its existence within any of them.

1. Fairness and Consistency: In order to maintain the integrity of your platform and ensure equal treatment for all users, it is imperative to apply moderation policies consistently and fairly. Banning me for an unrelated incident sets a concerning precedent and undermines the trust that we as users have in your system, there is quite literally nowhere in the ruleset where I was able to find the rule against “Inciting Hysteria” nor “Withholding information.”.

Hi @Moon,

Regarding your points:

Fairness and consistency is what we value and pride ourselves in. Unfortunately we expect people to have common sense, which you clearly disregard. We cannot clarify every single rule which is why we rely on our community to use common sense. If we have an extensive ruleset it wouldn't be legible for people just wanting to play the server.

Absence of affiliation - Whether it was on the official Civil Networks platforms or not, it regards a community member and this case happened on the community itself. I don't need to explain to you why it doesn't matter whether it's in your private discord or DM's as it affects the network.

Lack of relevance - I asked you for crucial information at which you'd refuted, this information would of led me to preventing it's spread furthermore. As you stated in your private discord recently, "omg i didnt see this, yea basically someone in my private discord server told winkie about me sending an image of an old CN dev being a... and i basically got 1984d because i didnt snitch". This also tells me you have no regrets.

I'd like to also state you don't seem so remorseful to improve yourself, considering you are still sharing these screenshots. This also shows us you understand it's not allowed but continue doing so. It also makes me question "I in the moment of posting the aforementioned screenshots was unaware of the severity, seriousness and consequences regarding my actions, this I must admit is due to my own disregard to potential damage and harm that could’ve been done to the server and community that of which me and you both can to a certain degree say that we love, which I feel is certainly clear when you look at the facts".


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To understand your situation. These two contingents contradict themselves:

"According to the SCP-RP Rules, nowhere does it say that I am not allowed to share or talk about images about previous staff members committing illegal acts in my own PRIVATE discord server. This was completely shared outside of SCP-RP and a server that has NOTHING to do with CN at all. Also, nowhere does it say in the rules that "Withholding information" is against the rules. I personally feel that I do not need to disclose who the members in my private Discord servers are to NL."

"A. That I’ve made a ban appeal which in itself, or at least so I believe is more than enough proof that I regret what I’ve done and wish to better myself and hopefully the community towards a better light, in the aforementioned I admit to my own mistake and of which I’m willing to take full responsibility of."

So are you arguing the bans invalid or just making this whole notion of bettering yourself up? Because it sounds as if you are attempting to find any clause to improve your argument.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Furthermore to add, I will be extending your ban during this appeal process for another 4 weeks. You have been sharing these screenshots whilst you have a ban appeal up for something you was told not to do? I really see no remorse here considering your actions after your ban, instead of waiting it appears you have been throwing your toys out of the pram. I will allow the executive team to give a verdict, I do not wish to reply furthermore as I believe what I have explained is sufficient for a verdict.

Kind Regards,
Winkie

 

[Cloak]

When you share images like these with the intent of causing drama, all it does is create a shit stain that I then have to clean up because you wanted to score some points for sharing drama with your mates. If you actually had concern about what you'd seen, you'd have reported it to me.

I have dealt with many situations like the one those screenshots show. This is our standard procedure for handling them, based on what the evidence we receive shows:

1. (UK) An adult makes inappropriate contact with someone under the age of 16 (UK age of consent) - blacklist & police report
2. (US) An adult makes inappropriate contact with someone under the age of 18 (normal US age of consent) - blacklist & police report
3. (UK or US) An adult exchanges inappropriate images with someone under the age of 18 (while the UK age of consent is 16, people in the UK under the age of 18 cannot legally exchange inappropriate images, as it is considered CSAM) - blacklist & police report
4. (UK) An adult makes inappropriate contact with someone aged 16 or 17 - legal in the UK, but usually results in a permanent ban or blacklist, as we still do not condone this behavior. Police reports are not made as this is not illegal in the UK.

We normally deal with Situations 2 and 4. Situations 1 and 3 are (thankfully) exceedingly uncommon. The case you have mentioned is an example of Situation 4. As you probably know, it was dealt with a long time ago, and the player in question is blacklisted.

Now, the reason I'm telling you this is because we have an established process for dealing with these. We know what to do, we know how to investigate and deal with it sensitively. However, historically, the biggest obstacle that we've faced to being able to correctly investigate these types of situations are people using them to get a quick kick by spreading it around so that they can be the person who caused as much drama as possible by 'exposing a pedo'. We have had multiple situations in the past where we have had our investigations hindered by this - people disappear as soon as they know that their secret has gone public. On the other hand, we've also had incidents where people have been spammed, harassed, and had false claims made about them by 'pedo hunters' despite the fact they didn't do anything illegal in the first place, based off screenshots that are missing the full context.

As a result of the above, we don't entertain public discussions about these types of situations, and we definitely do not entertain people who spread these kinds of images around to show off to their mates about how they've managed to get hold of something juicy. If you have real concerns, then you come and speak to us, and if you're unsatisfied with how we deal with it, then I suggest you talk to the relevant authorities to inform them of your concern instead. It is also extremely disrespectful to the victims in cases like these to spread around the images - it's just not right.

As a note, if the final excuse you have is 'but the rules don't say I can do it', then perhaps this community isn't for you. The SCP-RP rules are for the video game, they don't cover your general conduct, where we reserve the right to ban you for any reason, including being an asshole. There are many other communities where being an asshole is tolerated as long as you don't break the imaginary video game rules. This isn't one of them - we try to cultivate a community where this kind of behavior is not tolerated. The consequences of this kind of behavior are not imaginary, they can be very real.

Dealing with these situations is an extremely mentally taxing task that I would not wish on anyone. We have heard and seen things that we would not wish for any of you to see. We have had to have incredibly difficult conversations and make reports that we never thought we would have to make. It is not an entertainment opportunity for people like yourself and the others who were spreading it around in group chats.

Your appeal is denied. Thanks.