Remove ECC/O5-1 Applications

[Doug 'TrippleD']

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Look, hear me out on this one, one of the major things that I find pointless is ECC/O5-1 applications. They dont really serve much purpose, especially considering only one person normally wishes to go for the position at a time anyways, why not just have it so that person can express interest in the position to SSL/SL and they can decide in private. It would bring a lot more "mystery" to the role and would be nice to see people learning more about the role IC over seeing the obvious O5-1 application or ECC application up for 1-2+ weeks.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I couldn't find any

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
More immersion
Less waste of time
More merit based system over application quality based
More prep time for GM's wanting to create a promotion event

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
I honestly cant think of any

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I believe this suggestion could bring a lot more secrecy to the selection of ECC/O5-1 as it should be and would provide GM's with a lot more preparation time to create promotion events. I talked with a few CL5 about this (UK) and they all agreed its not a bad idea. This would act similarly to how the recent UK O5-1 got selected and promoted, with no actual application posted in the end.

 

[Conor mc gee]

+/- support
I think 1. Sometimes mutliple ppl would go for it 2. The playerbase should be able to give feedback on the candidates

Good idea imo tho

 

[Mirage]

+Support
No one wants to apply for the same position with a few changes.

 

[Kowaru]

-support, outside of the fact that sl/ssl choose Sr CL5 positions, its also a good gauge for the community for them, if there is an unpopular ECM/O5 they get the opportunity to recieve negative feedback on their application, which gives SL/SSL more insite as they cannot oversee each ECM/O5 that would apply for Sr. CL5. In regards to the gm point, thats just a miscommunication from SL/SSL/GM's not requesting it, they (I assume) can ask SL/SSL about the open positions, and ask for an update so they can plan their event in the future. ECC is also not a secretive role (as least not nearly as secretive as -1), and shouldnt really be hidden. Maybe hiding -1 positions would make more sense, but ECC is not really needed at all to hide.

 

[Cade Valentine]

I don't think Naffen will mind me posting this just to clarify. Hell, even I didn't know this either, but it turns out that -1 never REQUIRED an app in the first place. Having it there is fair enough, if someone really really wants to jump into the role, they can the moment the seat is open. OR they can choose to wait, like I did. The suggestion is unfortunately kinda moot cause of that.

 

[Niox]

+Support

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

-support, outside of the fact that sl/ssl choose Sr CL5 positions, its also a good gauge for the community for them, if there is an unpopular ECM/O5 they get the opportunity to recieve negative feedback on their application, which gives SL/SSL more insite as they cannot oversee each ECM/O5 that would apply for Sr. CL5. In regards to the gm point, thats just a miscommunication from SL/SSL/GM's not requesting it, they (I assume) can ask SL/SSL about the open positions, and ask for an update so they can plan their event in the future. ECC is also not a secretive role (as least not nearly as secretive as -1), and shouldnt really be hidden. Maybe hiding -1 positions would make more sense, but ECC is not really needed at all to hide.

A superadmin roleplay lead should be giving monthly reviews to people and it doesnt really matter if somebody is unpopular with a few people, promotions should be entirely merit based as long as the person isn't hated within the community, especially as this feedback would happen on their original CL5 application, instead of a Sr. CL5 application.

View attachment 23416I don't think Naffen will mind me posting this just to clarify. Hell, even I didn't know this either, but it turns out that -1 never REQUIRED an app in the first place. Having it there is fair enough, if someone really really wants to jump into the role, they can the moment the seat is open. OR they can choose to wait, like I did. The suggestion is unfortunately kinda moot cause of that.

This is actually really interesting and something good to know, but I believe this should be more widely known and made as more of an actual thing instead of just having an application being the "only" way to become Sr. CL5.

 

[Pyrite]

Current Site Command here. Selection process would be the same with or without an app (Up to SSL+). If they needed community feedback they would ask, I got pulled to chat with one of the SSL at the time regarding a couple ECC apps that were up.

Making the same app again but with one or two differences is both boring and unnecessary. Only reason I could see the apps ever possibly needing to be available is for people who aren't current FCOM that wish to apply for it too.

Otherwise,

 

[Rowling]

This seems to be a UK v US culture thing.

It's become a culture to apply over here, and I dislike it. I see nothing from (US) SSL suggesting they will choose non-applicants from the SC bodies. It doesn't exactly help that nobody on US SSL has experience in anything above Dpt Director, so that is part of the issue imo.

Also, SSL didn't even read my application until like a day before I got accepted, and I'm not even sure it was a full reading...

This whole thing exists because SSL was trying to get anybody but Crow in the ECC position.

The system should remain, but only for people who are outside of the current command bodies to attempt application, and the option should be available for GOC GEN and CI COM.

I give this a + @Reputation

 

[Remmy]

Removing the Sr. CL5 application process eliminates a lot of checks and balances that are in place for good reason. If you make the decision a coveted SSL / SL one without the opportunity for community input and feedback, you end up undermining the entire process. Bar people who post bare-bones verdicts (+Support, I like this person!), the platform players get for providing feedback and criticisms is excellent and should play into the decision making process.

Alongside this, an application serves to show a candidate's intent in a public sphere which, again, allows for community input and feedback— but most critically shows other interested players that someone is gunning for the position. Fair competition is important, and you risk making that jump to ECC / -1 seem exclusive. What if someone who's not currently an O5 wants to go for -1, for example? People may feel overlooked.

Seeing people describe -1 / ECC as the 'same position with a few changes' charges my deep seated hatred for some of the players here. The gap between being an FCOM member, trusted with the highest standard of RP & leadership, to being the FCOM member who CHOOSES candidates for FCOM and is responsible for them, should never be understated.

I don't think anyone who considers themselves a serious candidate for Senior CL5 positions should be griping about writing applications. I've always bit the bullet and put substantial effort into my applications, because it cements suitability and lets players, FCOM & SL get a clear idea of what & why I'd actually want a role like that.

I imagine a lot of the selection process from SL's side of things is biased, it's not like anyone is objective or anything in these decisions. But, at the very least, there should be some form of community paper trail.

Anyhow, the above is my opinion on the matter and I am sure current SL or SSL probably do consider candidates privately. My view is that the application process should always be followed, else, there's no way for the wider community to know what's happening or make their interests known.

 

[Rushi]

Personally, I would remove most if not all applications from the forums and get them done in game by expressing interest and talking with seniors of each department (except for SCP applications and GOC of course). I think this would help create some RP aswell, only downside I can see with this is possibly more bias on who you recruit, but this can already happen anyways and can be investigated.

I also do think that having to write massive applications just to get accepted into a position might result in players lose interest in applying, even if they would be a good addition to the position.

This is my own personal opinion, though.

 

[Dusk]

More often than not, applications are judged from a surface level perspective. While it’s useful to understand how the community perceives an individual, if the merit of a candidate is only evaluated after glancing at their application, it suggests that the people making decisions are either not as engaged as they should be or that the current system is biased, favoring lazy decision making or, worse, enabling and celebrating individuals who bring little to no value.

One of the largest flaws in the process is the perceived need to keep Overseer and EC slots filled at all times. These positions should be highly selective and closely monitored to ensure they are occupied by the best of the best, maximizing efficiency and impact. Instead, the current approach dilutes the standard, treating applications as a formality to satisfy the “RP” aspect rather than genuinely assessing leadership quality.

Meanwhile, many meeting rooms remain unused, and larger, more in-depth roleplay areas see little to no activity, further evidence that the focus is misplaced.

+Support

 

[Emilia Foddg]

View attachment 23416I don't think Naffen will mind me posting this just to clarify. Hell, even I didn't know this either, but it turns out that -1 never REQUIRED an app in the first place. Having it there is fair enough, if someone really really wants to jump into the role, they can the moment the seat is open. OR they can choose to wait, like I did. The suggestion is unfortunately kinda moot cause of that.

Wow, so I could be made -1 at any point without my notice? Wild.

 

[Average member podidski]

If server started with applications for CL4+ non-MTF roles then it will stay that way. The only way to remove applications that if ventz during making of the SCPRP instend made only CL5 roles application only (like on MRP, HC applications for two factions) and made rest "Earned by during tryouts for each deptarment.", which would mean that every deptarment would need roster for Sr.CL3+ ranks/roles ingame.
I hope when Site-9 comes out, i will not have see the same mistake with applications for CL4+ roles.


(Why DEA has reqs that you need to done to be CL4 in their deptarment? Like what was sence of it? For people who done their reqs and when they made the worst ever application to be accepted right away because they done their "reqs"?)

 

[Harry]

+support

 

[Change Z. "The Coward"]

Personally, I would remove most if not all applications from the forums and get them done in game by expressing interest and talking with seniors of each department (except for SCP applications and GOC of course). I think this would help create some RP aswell, only downside I can see with this is possibly more bias on who you recruit, but this can already happen anyways and can be investigated.

I also do think that having to write massive applications just to get accepted into a position might result in players lose interest in applying, even if they would be a good addition to the position.

This is my own personal opinion, though.

I love your opinion

 

[Playdoughzombie]

+Support
Talking from experience here all of the departments I have ever been cl4 in do not go based on how well an application is written we almost always go by how well known the applicant is and how good we think they would be in that role/how good they are now at their current role. Personally I think applications are pretty good damn useless in general because usually none of the people making the decision whether or not they get accepted ends up reading them.

 

[Sleepino]

+Support
i think if done correctly this could be a amazing change

 

[Merrick Travolta]

I've never been a fan of applications, I'll read them for the sake of it but I believe you always learn more from observing the player than seeing what they can write when they want to look good. Next to nobody admits their own faults in their applications.

I believe that -1 and ECC given they are next to always internal promotions don't require as much community feedback as that could be gleaned by just being around or speaking to players. This may create a higher workload (SSL can definitely delegate this to regular staff if they wished), but the process could be as simple as

O5/ECM to SSL: Hey I want to try for the position of -1/ECC

SSL: Okay
SSL to SL: hey X wants to apply for ECC/-1, Here's a thread, Please go ask players who you believe are involved enough to have a good perspective on them and if they're a good candidate.

You'd gain insight through there rather quickly and I don't believe it'd be an impossible task.

+Support for this.

 

[Evil]

ersonally, I would remove most if not all applications from the forums and get them done in game by expressing interest and talking with seniors of each department (except for SCP applications and GOC of course). I think this would help create some RP aswell, only downside I can see with this is possibly more bias on who you recruit, but this can already happen anyways and can be investigated.

I also do think that having to write massive applications just to get accepted into a position might result in players lose interest in applying, even if they would be a good addition to the position.

This is my own personal opinion, though.

i can finally use 096