Rule Suggestion Removes MC&D's ability to 'raid' or break in.

[Kito]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Removes MC&D's ability to 'raid' or break into the site. Realistically this would also apply to the UN and CI bases. Approval from the faction's respective RP leaders can still allow MC&D into the base as deemed fit ICly. This would not restrict MC&D's ability once allowed in the site to steal from, or scam the Foundation.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not to my knowledge.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ More RP conducive behavior on the role
+ Less issues of who shot first during combat
+ Less non-combative salesmen raiding the site by themselves or in groups of 2 to 3
+ Far less instances of MC&D dying during a 'raid' and immediately re-raiding the site

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- MC&D might have to actually RP
- Less reason to play MC&D since selling stuff isn't enough

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
MC&D raids / break ins are ass roleplay and add nothing to the server aside from another faction to raid the Foundation. They aren't combative, so usually they bait people into shooting at them first, kill them, then proceed to kill every Foundation after that in 'self-defense'. It's poor quality RP at best, and fail RP at worst. It adds more issues to the server that need to be clarified or taken to a staff sit, meaning less overall RP for everyone and a waste of staff resources.

Either new rules and clarifications specifically for MC&D should be instated to further allow them to raid appropriately and within reason, or it needs to be clarified that they cannot raid at all(preferable). Theres no place in the lore, on or off server, where MC&D raid the Foundation(or break in) with the aim of stealing SCPs, and if I did miss a story or situation in the lore, they more than likely didn't do it in 1 to 3 man groups.

As I've stated, its poor quality RP and should be reduced or removed substantially. MC&D is a non-combative, support-RP role, not a mainline faction that's responsible for keeping tension with MTFs and Security high.

If you disagree, please give a reason why you disagree instead of just doing -Support. I cannot justify myself, or clarify anything on this suggestion without appropriate feedback.

 

[Tay]

Removing a core ability of the job will not improve the job in any way.

RP will not magically become higher quality because MC&D is unable to raid; instead, it will further reduce the number of players who use this already rare job and cut down the amount of RP they can do.

Just because a few players conduct what you deem as "poor quality RP" on the job does not mean that others should be barred from properly using the job with its functions still intact.

- Support

 

[Glazzing]

-support this suggestion is fucking ass

 

[Tigole]

-support, removes major gameplay/roleplay loop that makes MC&D Unique compared to other surface jobs + makes them a surface dweller.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- MC&D might have to actually RP

Makes 0 sense as MC&D are mainly a salesmen on surface.

 

[Judge]

you make some interesting suggestions

 

[Kevin Ki]

-Support

This is a questionable suggestion.

While I agree, the contant MC&D running in gets annoying as fuck, I think removal completely isn't the solution. Instead you should ask for a rule change. 10 minutes per raid allowed is a bit too short, and them running around on chems and holding weapons already seems combative not a passive infiltration.

If you wanted to fix the problem, ask for rule changes like "MC&D can't use chems unless first attacked, MC&D can't have guns out while entering facility unless first attacked. MC&D must wait 30 minutes between raids" etc. Rather than just removing their ability to enter completely.

 

[YandereMuffin]

Currently MC&D do not have a lot of RP potential going for them, and are much more useful (in 90% of circumstances) as a job to hop on when a person needs it. Entering site with a permit as MC&D has a high likelihood of not really paying off as not many people by the weapons the MC&D sells.

I think removing their ability to sneak in would cripple any current MC&D playerbase, and make them more akin to how people use the gun dealer jobs (to hop on only when someones buying).

Unless more features were added to th MC&D, I only see this suggestion as making them worse.

my own opinion, not representative of anyone elses

 

[Biscuits]

-support
im not sure, mc&d should be allowed to break in aslong as they actually have an rp goal, like attempting to sample after stealing a CL3 keycard / possibly having some nhu to get to an scp. mindlessly entering as an mc&d is just mid rp :yawn:

 

[Kito]

Removing a core ability of the job will not improve the job in any way.

RP will not magically become higher quality because MC&D is unable to raid; instead, it will further reduce the number of players who use this already rare job and cut down the amount of RP they can do.

Just because a few players conduct what you deem as "poor quality RP" on the job does not mean that others should be barred from properly using the job with its functions still intact.

- Support

Currently the only time I see MC&D used is to raid the site. Thanks!

Currently MC&D do not have a lot of RP potential going for them, and are much more useful (in 90% of circumstances) as a job to hop on when a person needs it. Entering site with a permit as MC&D has a high likelihood of not really paying off as not many people by the weapons the MC&D sells.

I think removing their ability to sneak in would cripple any current MC&D playerbase, and make them more akin to how people use the gun dealer jobs (to hop on only when someones buying).

Unless more features were added to th MC&D, I only see this suggestion as making them worse.

my own opinion, not representative of anyone elses

The solution is to give them more alternative methods of RP, not giving them infinite raid capabilities like CI or GOC.

-Support

This is a questionable suggestion.

While I agree, the contant MC&D running in gets annoying as fuck, I think removal completely isn't the solution. Instead you should ask for a rule change. 10 minutes per raid allowed is a bit too short, and them running around on chems and holding weapons already seems combative not a passive infiltration.

If you wanted to fix the problem, ask for rule changes like "MC&D can't use chems unless first attacked, MC&D can't have guns out while entering facility unless first attacked. MC&D must wait 30 minutes between raids" etc. Rather than just removing their ability to enter completely.

MC&D requiring a 'must be attacked' clause is already enough of an issue, since its hard to prove either side correct, since MC&D can lie and say they were shot at first prior to XYZ clip engagement, among other ways of baiting out firefights. I think a more elegant solution can be created, but as it stands now, MC&D raids are not RP conducive in the slightest and just give players who paid another raid cooldown timer to burn.

-support, removes major gameplay/roleplay loop that makes MC&D Unique compared to other surface jobs + makes them a surface dweller.

Makes 0 sense as MC&D are mainly a salesmen on surface.

MC&D is not a surface dweller with or without the 'major gameplay/roleplay loop' of raiding the Foundation to steal. The ability to raid the Foundation does not make them unique, as literally every other role on the server has that ability aside from a specific few(think gundealers). Theres no reason a non-combative salesman should be raiding what they understand is a highly armed, highly specialized, and secure Foundation site by themselves, or in a group of 2 or 3. The only reason the UN and CI do it is because Deep-Cover/Assessment raids serve a distinct purpose: recon & sabotage, and are conducted by highly trained personnel who know what theyre doing.

This comment also contradicts itself by specifying they are mainly surface salesman, but that they should also be allowed to raid as if they were a CI or UN DC/AR.

The purpose of MC&D as a role is to support and add to roleplay, not to raid and cause chaos. If you wish to raid the Foundation, you have not 1, not 2, but 3 specific roles dedicated to doing so with special RP circumstances and rewards for doing so(Parawatch, CI DC, and UN ARs). I really struggle to find a good reason why MC&D should raid the site, aside from DC or Para's raid cooldown being active.

 

[Mozzie]

-support

 

[Evil]

i think bro is trying to kill the server by making these suggestion
-support

 

[Tylenol Smith]

Currently the only time I see MC&D used is to raid the site. Thanks!

The solution is to give them more alternative methods of RP, not giving them infinite raid capabilities like CI or GOC.

MC&D requiring a 'must be attacked' clause is already enough of an issue, since its hard to prove either side correct, since MC&D can lie and say they were shot at first prior to XYZ clip engagement, among other ways of baiting out firefights. I think a more elegant solution can be created, but as it stands now, MC&D raids are not RP conducive in the slightest and just give players who paid another raid cooldown timer to burn.

MC&D is not a surface dweller with or without the 'major gameplay/roleplay loop' of raiding the Foundation to steal. The ability to raid the Foundation does not make them unique, as literally every other role on the server has that ability aside from a specific few(think gundealers). Theres no reason a non-combative salesman should be raiding what they understand is a highly armed, highly specialized, and secure Foundation site by themselves, or in a group of 2 or 3. The only reason the UN and CI do it is because Deep-Cover/Assessment raids serve a distinct purpose: recon & sabotage, and are conducted by highly trained personnel who know what theyre doing.

This comment also contradicts itself by specifying they are mainly surface salesman, but that they should also be allowed to raid as if they were a CI or UN DC/AR.

The purpose of MC&D as a role is to support and add to roleplay, not to raid and cause chaos. If you wish to raid the Foundation, you have not 1, not 2, but 3 specific roles dedicated to doing so with special RP circumstances and rewards for doing so(Parawatch, CI DC, and UN ARs). I really struggle to find a good reason why MC&D should raid the site, aside from DC or Para's raid cooldown being active.

You are just incorrect they don’t raid the site and mc and d. Usually I see the job get a disguise and sample a scp. I think you should not base the whole job off only your expirences -support

 

[Tryolas_1919]

-support i love killing mcdonald guys when they vent...

 

[Kito]

-support

Please give actual feedback thanks

You are just incorrect they don’t raid the site and mc and d. Usually I see the job get a disguise and sample a scp. I think you should not base the whole job off only your expirences -support

Ive seen MC&D raid, steal SCPs, and steal samples several dozen times. I've had good experiences with MC&D too, and yes, they do raid the site. Breaking in and baiting out a firefight or firing on Foundation personnel when they're getting cuffed are all things that allow them to fire as if they were raiding.

-support i love killing mcdonald guys when they vent...

Its fun until it happens 20 billion times and they start breaching SCPs.

 

[Dopamine]

they start breaching SCPs.

literally they are not allowed to do this lmao, its against MCND's rules to breach an SCP, they enter the site purely to sample it/steal it for profit
(Honestly though overall, I'm gonna -support this, solely because its a part of their characteristics to be greedy, in their character description in the GAME, it describes them as someone who sell anything to anyone as long as they are the highest bidder, and only provide regular relations to the Foundation when they don't have any other choice because the anomaly is too dangerous to have on them for a long period of time, so raiding is something they'd do to steal scps or acquire their samples, all in the name of profit)

 

[Mozzie]

Please give actual feedback thanks

Ive seen MC&D raid, steal SCPs, and steal samples several dozen times. I've had good experiences with MC&D too, and yes, they do raid the site. Breaking in and baiting out a firefight or firing on Foundation personnel when they're getting cuffed are all things that allow them to fire as if they were raiding.

Its fun until it happens 20 billion times and they start breaching SCPs.

i dont have anything to say all the good points have been made, surface is already arguably one of the worst and unloved parts of the server and you want to remove more parts of the already small amount of non GM surface rp? makes no sense

 

[Niox]

MC&D requiring a 'must be attacked' clause is already enough of an issue, since its hard to prove either side correct, since MC&D can lie and say they were shot at first prior to XYZ clip engagement, among other ways of baiting out firefights. I think a more elegant solution can be created, but as it stands now, MC&D raids are not RP conducive in the slightest and just give players who paid another raid cooldown timer to burn.

alexa, what are damage logs

Ive seen MC&D raid, steal SCPs, and steal samples several dozen times.

This is a good thing no? The reason they raid is to steal anomalies, information and samples, to sell off to other Groups. Obviously if they go about this in a "Guns blazing" way it's a bad thing, but these? This just sounds like actual RP
-Support

 

[Tyquavious Jabroney]

-Support

 

[fyzar]

-support

 

[Kito]

alexa, what are damage logs


This is a good thing no? The reason they raid is to steal anomalies, information and samples, to sell off to other Groups. Obviously if they go about this in a "Guns blazing" way it's a bad thing, but these? This just sounds like actual RP
-Support

Its more firefight RP instead of actual read the lore and talk about it RP. MC&D, the version we see on the server, and non-combatives, they dont break in to steal shit to sell, they already have shit to sell, why would they want to ruin their ties with the Foundation to steal stuff when they could just, I dunno, not do that?

If you want to raid to steal anomalies, information, and samples, play CI or GOC, theres no reason for yet another job on the server that requires breaking into the Foundation to play.

-Support

-support
View attachment 20513

Read the suggestion again and give feedback instead of just saying -Support.