Why the changes are /not so good/

[Critical]

From my point of view this change will provide more of a reason for IA to be active and do their job as people rely on them more. This means that IA get more experience of the server, how it works and boosts retention of newer players as they have a lot of power before this change to make of break someones RP experience.

If ISD are rarely arresting people then I don't see why this is such an issue? Why keep something that is unused but when it is used it often depriciates the Department added to do the job? ISD do too much compared to what they were made to be, a body guard regiment. Their clearance and duties changed overtime because they couldn't find RP to create outside of training and escorting O5/EC. Now with their elevated Clearance of CL4 and their wider power they conduct research tests without the research department drawing RP away from them, they draw arrests from Internal Affairs, they draw guarding D-Block away from GENSEC, they draw SCP containment away from Epsilon-11 and GSD CU.

Unfortunatley these issues had not been picked up on and ISD has become too powerful to the point where it is harmful to the server. ISD could have retained their abilities if they had policies enforced on them such as only dealing with Code-5s when requested to, escorting other high ranking foundation personnel, co-operating with one anothers Site Command, aiding D-Block when it is in a critical state and requested. There are many options that could have been taken but weren't.

What sparked this change was indeed from the UK server. Server Leadership+, some players/GMs played on Internal Affairs for roughly 6 hours across 3 days and what they found was that ISD take control over most situations. They swoop in and steal the RolePlay essentially. Internal Affairs had been blocked off from accessing Interrogation Areas where the arrest NPC is, blocked off from the medical centre, blocked from entering D-Block all because ISD didn't allow it. As far as I am aware these situations were not ordered by Site Command but because ISD are "the action arms" of ISD no one questions their actions and they just go with it.

Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs if Alpha-1 broke the FLC/CoE/CoC on a non-serious level to ensure the A-1 doesn't get arrested. To highlight the issue, they have been told to RDM Internal Affairs making arrests which is against the rules. This has been enforced by their CO team.
This alone shows it is not just an issue on the UK server but just as bad, if not worse on the USA server. Having this change will mean ISD will have to work with Internal Affairs more and avoid pissing them off otherwise they cannot get their duties completed. Inter-departmental relations are key for SCP-RP, without it RolePlay cannot be presented rather just toxicity and rulebreaking.

This has kicked off a fuss, I understand why. I was Alpha-1 CPL twice, I was Ethics, I was O5, I know how annoying this is. But I have also been IA Ambassador 3 times and IA Director once. During all of my time on the server it has become clear to me that ISD are negative regiments for the server in their current form. My second run as Internal Affairs Ambassador I led a rebelion against the O5 Council and Alpha-1 for stepping on Internal Affairs toes, activity increased after A-1 stopped interfering with IA duties as much and started working with them.

To make matters worse, Alpha-1 and Omega-1 aren't actually Internal Security Departments, that was the nickname given to them when saying "Alpha-1", "A-1", "Omega-1" or "O-1" would get you executed for being an information leak.
This change is needed, ISD and Site Command need to return to how they were before these issues started to occur, more observers than "actioners". More of a RP guidance role then an RP controlling role.

In any case of the option presented being to remove or reduce a core department, or to remove the two ISD regiment I would always take the option to remove the ISD regiment.

These changes were made to allow RP to prevail, it will just take time to adjust to or reflect upon them. But for now, time is needed to get the information, data and feedback required to make any further steps with ISDxIA relations and ISDxserver relations.

 

[stealthyxd]

im thinking like this for the turrets getting removed, on a real military base they have sensors and cameras why would they remove them? its like common saftey stuff where did they even get the idea to remove the turrets

 

[Mars]

From my point of view this change will provide more of a reason for IA to be active and do their job as people rely on them more. This means that IA get more experience of the server, how it works and boosts retention of newer players as they have a lot of power before this change to make of break someones RP experience.

If ISD are rarely arresting people then I don't see why this is such an issue? Why keep something that is unused but when it is used it often depriciates the Department added to do the job? ISD do too much compared to what they were made to be, a body guard regiment. Their clearance and duties changed overtime because they couldn't find RP to create outside of training and escorting O5/EC. Now with their elevated Clearance of CL4 and their wider power they conduct research tests without the research department drawing RP away from them, they draw arrests from Internal Affairs, they draw guarding D-Block away from GENSEC, they draw SCP containment away from Epsilon-11 and GSD CU.

Unfortunatley these issues had not been picked up on and ISD has become too powerful to the point where it is harmful to the server. ISD could have retained their abilities if they had policies enforced on them such as only dealing with Code-5s when requested to, escorting other high ranking foundation personnel, co-operating with one anothers Site Command, aiding D-Block when it is in a critical state and requested. There are many options that could have been taken but weren't.

What sparked this change was indeed from the UK server. Server Leadership+, some players/GMs played on Internal Affairs for roughly 6 hours across 3 days and what they found was that ISD take control over most situations. They swoop in and steal the RolePlay essentially. Internal Affairs had been blocked off from accessing Interrogation Areas where the arrest NPC is, blocked off from the medical centre, blocked from entering D-Block all because ISD didn't allow it. As far as I am aware these situations were not ordered by Site Command but because ISD are "the action arms" of ISD no one questions their actions and they just go with it.

Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs if Alpha-1 broke the FLC/CoE/CoC on a non-serious level to ensure the A-1 doesn't get arrested. To highlight the issue, they have been told to RDM Internal Affairs making arrests which is against the rules. This has been enforced by their CO team.
This alone shows it is not just an issue on the UK server but just as bad, if not worse on the USA server. Having this change will mean ISD will have to work with Internal Affairs more and avoid pissing them off otherwise they cannot get their duties completed. Inter-departmental relations are key for SCP-RP, without it RolePlay cannot be presented rather just toxicity and rulebreaking.

This has kicked off a fuss, I understand why. I was Alpha-1 CPL twice, I was Ethics, I was O5, I know how annoying this is. But I have also been IA Ambassador 3 times and IA Director once. During all of my time on the server it has become clear to me that ISD are negative regiments for the server in their current form. My second run as Internal Affairs Ambassador I led a rebelion against the O5 Council and Alpha-1 for stepping on Internal Affairs toes, activity increased after A-1 stopped interfering with IA duties as much and started working with them.

To make matters worse, Alpha-1 and Omega-1 aren't actually Internal Security Departments, that was the nickname given to them when saying "Alpha-1", "A-1", "Omega-1" or "O-1" would get you executed for being an information leak.
This change is needed, ISD and Site Command need to return to how they were before these issues started to occur, more observers than "actioners". More of a RP guidance role then an RP controlling role.

In any case of the option presented being to remove or reduce a core department, or to remove the two ISD regiment I would always take the option to remove the ISD regiment.

These changes were made to allow RP to prevail, it will just take time to adjust to or reflect upon them. But for now, time is needed to get the information, data and feedback required to make any further steps with ISDxIA relations and ISDxserver relations.

this is a uk issue

 

[Merrick Travolta]

It was wild that this was dropped without any warning.

I personally never had an issue with IA coms being accessible by assistants. But my more major issue is the arresting ability. IA as a department struggle to do trainings as is. but now if we're the only one besides SC and SA who can arrest. It's functionally impossible.

 

[Gizzmo]

If ISD are rarely arresting people then I don't see why this is such an issue? Why keep something that is unused but when it is used it often depriciates the Department added to do the job? ISD do too much compared to what they were made to be, a body guard regiment. Their clearance and duties changed overtime because they couldn't find RP to create outside of training and escorting O5/EC. Now with their elevated Clearance of CL4 and their wider power they conduct research tests without the research department drawing RP away from them, they draw arrests from Internal Affairs, they draw guarding D-Block away from GENSEC, they draw SCP containment away from Epsilon-11 and GSD CU.

It's not that we are rarely arresting people, its that we are rarely arresting people for things IA can handle. Like I said the things we prosecute are above IAs Jurisdiction or Informational clearance. The only change this brings on the US site is A-1 has to wait for X amount of time for an IA to come to interro, press E on the jailer, then put down a time. That is not RP, thats a middleman, and that's typically unhealthy for servers.

 

[Critical]

this is a uk issue

I literally said that it is a USA issue.

Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs if Alpha-1 broke the FLC/CoE/CoC on a non-serious level to ensure the A-1 doesn't get arrested. To highlight the issue, they have been told to RDM Internal Affairs making arrests which is against the rules. This has been enforced by their CO team.
This alone shows it is not just an issue on the UK server but just as bad, if not worse on the USA server. Having this change will mean ISD will have to work with Internal Affairs more and avoid pissing them off otherwise they cannot get their duties completed. Inter-departmental relations are key for SCP-RP, without it RolePlay cannot be presented rather just toxicity and rulebreaking.

As stated here. First sentence I said "Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs"

 

[Nomad_600]

IMO, Alpha-1 and Omega-1 have both pushed beyond the boundary of their regiment scope, the regiment operation scope should honestly be reduced back to protecting CL5 Personnel and executing COVERT operation within foundation to ensure stability. A-1 and O-1 should never have been the primary policing force and also, I understand the current server policy and dynamic but there's no reason why beside member of Site Command there is anyone that IA can't be arrested, the department of internal affairs should be able to arrest anyone provided given clearance ( Agent for CL3, Ambassador/Director for CL4 and SC for CL5 ) they are the main branch of apprehending people who are breaking the Codex and so should be their primary purpose. The only time A-1 and O-1 should be snatching people would be to either kill them covertly or do covert ops.

 

[Gizzmo]

I literally said that it is a USA issue.

As stated here. First sentence I said "Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs"

The polices we're agreed upon by Site Command and IA directors during the FLC change. I'm sure if it was talked about and they wanted changes it'd be fine but we have never been approached to change it, and the only people to express issues with it are UK SL who don't play the server. Still, those policies have nothing to do with ISDs preforming arrest themselves, so I don't even get why its being discussed other then to obfuscate from the actual conversation.

 

[Gizzmo]

IMO, Alpha-1 and Omega-1 have both pushed beyond the boundary of their regiment scope, the regiment operation scope should honestly be reduced back to protecting CL5 Personnel and executing COVERT operation within foundation to ensure stability. A-1 and O-1 should never have been the primary policing force and also, I understand the current server policy and dynamic but there's no reason why beside member of Site Command there is anyone that IA can't be arrested, the department of internal affairs should be able to arrest anyone provided given clearance ( Agent for CL3, Ambassador/Director for CL4 and SC for CL5 ) they are the main branch of apprehending people who are breaking the Codex and so should be their primary purpose. The only time A-1 and O-1 should be snatching people would be to either kill them covertly or do covert ops.

Ludacris you think ISD has become the primary policing regiment. As for "just guarding regiment" we had issues in the past of ISD being reliant on SC to do anything and have been taking steps away from that ever since Jules was SSL, you should know this. This new sentiment NL/SSL has had is a massive step backwards that's just going to bring back issues we already faced. Wanting ISD to only kill people is terrible for RP, and will do nothing to curb mingey behavior that we occasionally handle through the arrest system.

 

[Niox]

assistant losing IA comms is meh

ISD/Assistants losing arrest power is very cool
ISD taking away from IA RP by arresting others is not the fun

Ludacris you think ISD has become the primary policing regiment. As for "just guarding regiment" we had issues in the past of ISD being reliant on SC to do anything and have been taking steps away from that ever since Jules was SSL, you should know this. This new sentiment NL/SSL has had is a massive step backwards that's just going to bring back issues we already faced.

this is why we need to remove ISD

 

[Wrath]

From my point of view this change will provide more of a reason for IA to be active and do their job as people rely on them more. This means that IA get more experience of the server, how it works and boosts retention of newer players as they have a lot of power before this change to make of break someones RP experience.

The argument this takes away ISD rp is literally just stating the only RP IA can do is sit inside of interrogation and arrest people when CL4s bring them reasons to. They can do their own investigations and stuff and ISD literally do not care at least on US. Like we literally could care less, and I have NEVER seen ISD block interro, even in the instance with an SC member in there its been a very clear policy of both A1 and O1 to allow IA to do their job while SC is in interro.

If ISD are rarely arresting people then I don't see why this is such an issue? Why keep something that is unused but when it is used it often depriciates the Department added to do the job?

The issue is no one, ranging from the Director of IA to site command to ISD on the US server agree with this change, yet it is effecting the US server. A much easier way to have done this and avoid all the chaos would've been to make a UK Policy from 05-1/ECC preventing ISD from making arrests if UK SC see this as such an issue.

UK issues should not directly effect US server unless absolutely necessarily, and this entire situation seems poorly handled.

Clearance of CL4 and their wider power they conduct research tests without the research department drawing RP away from them, they draw arrests from Internal Affairs, they draw guarding D-Block away from GENSEC, they draw SCP containment away from Epsilon-11 and GSD CU.

This feels like you are incredibly out of touch with the gameplay of the server. Very simply, e11 cannot contain a breach by themselves. SCP's are overpowered due to the fact literally every combative will fight them. There's literally no way for 10 e11 to re-contain a 6-9 SCP breach. It is not fun RP to get killed 40 times in HCZ fighting a breach for ANYONE on the server. Especially with the new meta of double TG and 8837 just wrecking havoc on the server. At least on US, scps always rush surface.

Regarding guarding d block, at least on US, we are quiet literally banned as A1 from going into d block unless O5 walk in there or a CO approves it which is VERY rare because we dont want to lose our keycards and cause infobreaches.

What sparked this change was indeed from the UK server. Server Leadership+, some players/GMs played on Internal Affairs for roughly 6 hours across 3 days and what they found was that ISD take control over most situations. T

Again just proving all the US players points that this should've been addressed with UK Policies not SSL smiting our permissions to do our jobs. This just simply doesnt happen on US but US is getting punished.

Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs if Alpha-1 broke the FLC/CoE/CoC on a non-serious level to ensure the A-1 doesn't get arrested. To highlight the issue, they have been told to RDM Internal Affairs making arrests which is against the rules. This has been enforced by their CO team.

This is something backed by the Director of Internal Affairs as well. We kill IA who cuff O5 because ya know, why the hell would an IA agent be cuffing an O5 member... thats clearly just kidnapping at that point.

This alone shows it is not just an issue on the UK server but just as bad, if not worse on the USA server. Having this change will mean ISD will have to work with Internal Affairs more and avoid pissing them off otherwise they cannot get their duties completed. Inter-departmental relations are key for SCP-RP, without it RolePlay cannot be presented rather just toxicity and rulebreaking.

We literally dont piss IA off AT ALL on the UK server. The director of IA has come out and said he does NOT approve of these changes. You are directly harming inter department relations on US by making this change.

This has kicked off a fuss, I understand why. I was Alpha-1 CPL twice, I was Ethics, I was O5, I know how annoying this is. But I have also been IA Ambassador 3 times and IA Director once. During all of my time on the server it has become clear to me that ISD are negative regiments for the server in their current form. My second run as Internal Affairs Ambassador I led a rebelion against the O5 Council and Alpha-1 for stepping on Internal Affairs toes, activity increased after A-1 stopped interfering with IA duties as much and started working with them.

You have also said the US and UK server are both having the same issues, but yet, you will find literally every US member outside of CI mains are saying this change is bad, from ISD to SC to IA ambassador to IA department directors.

This change is needed, ISD and Site Command need to return to how they were before these issues started to occur, more observers than "actioners". More of a RP guidance role then an RP controlling role.

SSL has never allowed ISD to roleplay the way we actually would. O5 in lore has purged entire sites, tortured and executed people, and have generally done a bunch of scuffed shit in the name of internal security, theres NO way the SSL team (Rightfully so Im not arguing we should be allowed to do this) purge an entire site.

In any case of the option presented being to remove or reduce a core department, or to remove the two ISD regiment I would always take the option to remove the ISD regiment.

These changes were made to allow RP to prevail, it will just take time to adjust to or reflect upon them. But for now, time is needed to get the information, data and feedback required to make any further steps with ISDxIA relations and ISDxserver relations.

The reality is a large majority of players do not find IA fun. I do not like disabling someones ability to play the game for 30 mins because they said Down with ethics! I think the US server is doing extremely well with increasing IA rp by pushing for more administrative stuff like tribunals, the grand reality is arresting someone for 30 mins isn't fun for IA or for the people involved. IA has always been a department very few play on because why would I arrest someone whos going to scream at me for 20 mins and hate me for the rest of their time when I could instead go fight ci or research scps or play as GSD and just war games with d class.


People are complaining about this change because no one on US thinks its a good change. Server specific issues need to be resolved using server specific policies from SC. You have a branch of RP leaders meant to influence RP, yet if you ask literally every US SC member, they will all agree US SC DOES NOT have power to influence RP because we have to do what UK wants while UK can do what they want with 0 regard for US.

 

[Alpa]

Now with their elevated Clearance of CL4 and their wider power they conduct research tests without the research department drawing RP away from them, they draw arrests from Internal Affairs, they draw guarding D-Block away from GENSEC, they draw SCP containment away from Epsilon-11 and GSD CU.

I find this point really strange, you can work along side other regiments without taking away from them, which is what A-1 and O-1 do for the most part, I don't think I've ever seen an E-11 complain about A-1 helping them with breaches, or gensec complaining about A-1 helping them in D-Block when they are out-numbered, and the point which is most relevant to this post, ive never seen a US IA complain about an A-1 helping them enforce the FLC by arresting people that violate the FLC away from IA.

During all of my time on the server it has become clear to me that ISD are negative regiments for the server in their current form. My second run as Internal Affairs Ambassador I led a rebelion against the O5 Council and Alpha-1 for stepping on Internal Affairs toes, activity increased after A-1 stopped interfering with IA duties as much and started working with them.

Yeah, I don't really see this point at all, granted, a lot of my time on the server has been as A-1, however when I was a Consultant the only issues I ever had with ISD was them going into the medical office without reason, which was reported and punished. This seems like a UK issue completely as A-1 on US hardly "replace" IA or step on their toes, we perform arrests when IA arent present. All this changes is making it so A-1 does all of the arrest except actually putting them in jail, they have to call an IA over in comms for that, I can't see how this improves IA RP at all, just creates headaches for everyone. If anything, this negatively impacts IA as it requires them to leave their current RP situation so they can use the arrest NPC.

Having had a discussion with the USA Alpha-1 in their enlisted chat the general consensus was to RDM Internal Affairs if Alpha-1 broke the FLC/CoE/CoC on a non-serious level to ensure the A-1 doesn't get arrested. To highlight the issue, they have been told to RDM Internal Affairs making arrests which is against the rules. This has been enforced by their CO team.

The first part is not at all true, A-1 are told at all times to follow the CoC and CoE in public, this is in our orientation and this is enforced by COs, this is NOT to prevent arrests, but to prevent tribunals. On the US server IA are not allowed to cuff a member of A-1 or O-1 under any circumstances, they cannot arrest us, they need to provide evidence to COs and have it dealt with internally or tribunal us. This is a method that works for US and I understand if it does not work for UK, it does not make A-1 and O-1 untouchable, it just means you need to go through other methods to get an A-1 punished. For the second part, you are misconstruing the point we were marking, there has not been a single time, either time I have been in A-1 where I have seen an IA arrest a member of A-1, I have however seen CI attempt to cuff A-1, the whole point we were making is there has never been a time where an IA has cuffed an A-1, because they cannot arrest A-1, if an A-1 is disguised and cuffed the IA should be informed that it is an A-1 and told to let the A-1 go, if they don't, they get shot. This is because they cannot arrest A-1 and were likely under the impression it was not an A-1, which is an honest mistake, unless they double down on it and refuse to let the A-1 go. If an IA attempts to arrest an A-1 (which like I've said, I have never seen it happen on US), it would be dealt with on a case by case basis where the IA would be told to let the A-1 go and if the IA attempts to resist at all, the IA would be shot. The whole point we were making, that you just werent understanding is that on US IA cannot arrest A-1 under any circumstances, meaning if they attempt to and refuse to let the A-1 go after being told to, they are effectively kidnapping the A-1 and are considered hostile. Its like seeing a regular IA cuff an OSA, they have no reason to do it, you would tell them to let the OSA go then shoot them if they don't.



I just genuinely cannot see how this benefits IA, either you have A-1/O-1 just ignore FLC violations, you have them ask for ID from the offending individual then put an AOS on them, or the A-1 cuffs them and brings them to interro, only to call an IA over to arrest the person, taking time out of both the A-1 and the IAs day to do something that the A-1 could have previously done on their own. If IA's RP and purpose revolves around typing the FLC violations into the arrest system then typing a time in then it needs a rework, not this.

 

["Recker"]

Ive also been told that @"Recker" (US Director of IA) did not have any issues about this brought to him either, and wasn't made aware of this change prior to its implementation? Just goes to show that if it's an issue, then it's isolated to UK
We on US are always kind and sweet

I just want to say that yes, IA has not had any issues with ISD or MTF regiments Class F'ing IA. Even though people aren't fond of IA, IA's current relationships with other departments in the US server is the best it's been in a very very long time.

 

[cityismy]

IA's current relationships with other departments in the US server is the best it's been in a very very long time.

I cannot say the same for IA in the UK server especially with the recent policy changes however I believe that assistants should still be able to access IA comms, it is vital for communication between the committee and the department they have the most influence over.