Denied Adding a rule to SCP 096's breach

[Goblins]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
The proposal adds a law that would make it more difficult for the RC of SCP-096
- Add a rule - that it will not be possible to sit/wait inside SCP-096's chamber, so that it will not be so easy to stop the breach. Currently, people are taking a picture and waiting inside the chamber, which undoubtedly does not allow 096 to enter.
Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I dont know, didnt see one before.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
1. Will add more interest, will be harder to do RC.
2. Will remove the baiting issue - in fact, all it takes is for someone to take a picture of 096 and sit in his cell, and the breach will be over.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
1. Will make RC more difficult - there will be more use of the bucket as there was before.
2. Will no longer allow players to sit with a picture inside the cage and wait for it to arrive

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Since people sit with a picture inside the chamber and wait for 096 to arrive and then lock it, it shortens the whole breach, in fact it's just like baiting because he has no other choice but to run inside,
so I suggest preventing this, and returning the whole thing to trying to get him with a bucket, or neutralizing him in some other way.
Will both add more interest and prevent people from stopping raids before they star

 

[Zen]

-Support
I can understand and maybe support changing 096 to make it a bit less containable/more of a threat, but this specific suggestion is literally just "make it a rule that you have to be stupid".

 

[Damian 'Damned']

Doesnt make sense rp wise and this suggestion is kinda cooked -support

 

[Goblins]

Doesnt make sense rp wise and this suggestion is kinda cooked -support

Why its not make sense?
You sitting in the chamber and he not have option just to run back. So why to make a breach from start if it’s like that?

 

[Jonas Enry]

Why its not make sense?
You sitting in the chamber and he not have option just to run back. So why to make a breach from start if it’s like that?

Ok you work for the SCP foundation you see a picture of 096s face you are dead already nothing can be done about it. What you can do though is minimise the amount of other deaths 096 can cause by going to its cc to stop its face from being seen by others.

 

[Niox]

what about this is unrealistic or unbalanced

 

[Bananolas]

-Support

 

[World]

+Support:
- I believe that people should still realistically trying to RP as to save themselves and not immediately try to run to his containment chamber to die.

 

[Damian 'Damned']

+Support:
- I believe that people should still realistically trying to RP as to save themselves and not immediately try to run to his containment chamber to die.

It is a containment procedure+they already know they are dead, i belive mtf units have a mentality to not just start to ran away from an unstoppable force but rather accept their fate. Now i could understand this from a non combative standpoint where they are not trained for mentally draning stuff like this

 

[Goblins]

It is a containment procedure+they already know they are dead, i belive mtf units have a mentality to not just start to ran away from an unstoppable force but rather accept their fate. Now i could understand this from a non combative standpoint where they are not trained for mentally draning stuff like this

Yeah so if you know you are dead so its make it okay to camp into the chamber…

 

[Damian 'Damned']

Yeah so if you know you are dead so its make it okay to camp into the chamber…

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

trying to RP as to save themselves

Are you familiar with how 096 works? It's not an SCP that be be negotiated with nor can you hide from it.
You are dead as soon as you've seen it's face.

Yeah so if you know you are dead so its make it okay to camp into the chamber…

If you're already dead you try and minimise further casualties. The SCP Foundation knows how to contain SCP-096, making is so they can't follow the procedures regarding 096 because you want to breach more is braindead.

 

[Rushi]

Seems like one of the situations where players play smart and because of that, a rule change is suggested.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Hello to the SSL members scrolling through & discussing this suggestion, please see this post, I think I make a good point here that could be taken into consideration during the final ruling.​

-Support
I can understand and maybe support changing 096 to make it a bit less containable/more of a threat, but this specific suggestion is literally just "make it a rule that you have to be stupid".

Why its not make sense?
You sitting in the chamber and he not have option just to run back. So why to make a breach from start if it’s like that?

Ok you work for the SCP foundation you see a picture of 096s face you are dead already nothing can be done about it. What you can do though is minimise the amount of other deaths 096 can cause by going to its cc to stop its face from being seen by others.

what about this is unrealistic or unbalanced

+Support:
- I believe that people should still realistically trying to RP as to save themselves and not immediately try to run to his containment chamber to die.

Yeah so if you know you are dead so its make it okay to camp into the chamber…

Ah, this tactic slipped my mind, for a while I had a very fuzzy idea in my head but for the life of me, could not recall what it was.

+Major Support, BUT​

I agree with the prospect that in RP, people should generally be fearful for their lives in situations and contexts where they know that they are going to die - Unless when it comes to specific criteria that don't apply. I think that this as a behaviour makes perfect sense for things like department leaders, big role-type positions within the site and most combatives, but generally for everyone else, count as FailRP/FearRP?

It makes perfect sense for say, a Department Director/the DoR/a member of Site Admin/Command or some combative (Except a GenSec recruit and another, somewhat funny, but major exception I will elaborate on later) to, on realising they saw 096's face, go to the CC with the intention of dying to contain it - They are either in deep enough to know to make the hard call or know what they signed up for etc., that it is absolutely within the bounds of reason for them to throw away their life for the sake of containing the SCP.

HOWEVER, seeing something like some random researcher or doctor do so feels very FailRP/FearRP and in my time having played 096, I have experienced a spurious few breaches where it feels like the last target was some random dude in my CC that knowingly went there in order to purposely make the breach shorter, with full knowledge that there will be no consequence for it as they'll just respawn and the breach is contained. I believe that there should be consideration as to the context of who it is that is so callously and casually dying (In a very fucked up way in character, may I add - 096 deaths are generally supposed to be highly unpleasant) as well as the context in which they are doing so.

I don't think preventing this tactic outright is a good idea, as this is something that the Foundation would realistically do and I definitely feel that it's something valid to do against 096 breaches - But at the same time, I also feel like that there are issues that rise from allowing it as a meta and the weird roleplay intersectionality that I covered that comes from this whole 'sacrificial death for containment' trade which ultimately makes things a tiny bit unfair for 096 - a whitelisted SCP that doesn't take a great deal of effort to obtain, but in itself is still a bit more than just getting SCP levels - a lot less fun & appealing to breach as.

Spoiler: The other combative exception I mentioned earlier.

So, the Fivefold Mission actually complicates this a lot. On one hand yes, there's the survival of the wider populace, but also the GOC's own operatives. GOC operatives would not unnecessarily risk any human life - Which makes being an 096 target something of a First Mission Paradox.

I definitely think GOC operatives would reasonably use this tactic in the interest of First Mission concerns for the general population - But I'm really not sure how to parse this at all.

@Ronin thoughts?

Granted, this should all definitely be on a more case-by-case kind of basis, but I think there should be more granularity and consideration to these factors, but I also understand how this could also be difficult to enforce dependant on how granular it needs to be. Thank you for your time.

 

[Ronin]

So, the Fivefold Mission actually complicates this a lot. On one hand yes, there's the survival of the wider populace, but also the GOC's own operatives. GOC operatives would not unnecessarily risk any human life - Which makes being an 096 target something of a First Mission Paradox.

I definitely think GOC operatives would reasonably use this tactic in the interest of First Mission concerns for the general population - But I'm really not sure how to parse this at all.

@Ronin thoughts?

Yuppers. 1st Mission Supersedes 3rd Mission. Which 096 does pose a threat to. GOC would of course find other methods before relying on a sacrifice but if needed they would do it 1000 times over.

 

[Zen]

Hello to the SSL members scrolling through & discussing this suggestion, please see this post, I think I make a good point here that could be taken into consideration during the final ruling.​

Ah, this tactic slipped my mind, for a while I had a very fuzzy idea in my head but for the life of me, could not recall what it was.

+Major Support, BUT​

I agree with the prospect that in RP, people should generally be fearful for their lives in situations and contexts where they know that they are going to die - Unless when it comes to specific criteria that don't apply. I think that this as a behaviour makes perfect sense for things like department leaders, big role-type positions within the site and most combatives, but generally for everyone else, count as FailRP/FearRP?

It makes perfect sense for say, a Department Director/the DoR/a member of Site Admin/Command or some combative (Except a GenSec recruit and another, somewhat funny, but major exception I will elaborate on later) to, on realising they saw 096's face, go to the CC with the intention of dying to contain it - They are either in deep enough to know to make the hard call or know what they signed up for etc., that it is absolutely within the bounds of reason for them to throw away their life for the sake of containing the SCP.

HOWEVER, seeing something like some random researcher or doctor do so feels very FailRP/FearRP and in my time having played 096, I have experienced a spurious few breaches where it feels like the last target was some random dude in my CC that knowingly went there in order to purposely make the breach shorter, with full knowledge that there will be no consequence for it as they'll just respawn and the breach is contained. I believe that there should be consideration as to the context of who it is that is so callously and casually dying (In a very fucked up way in character, may I add - 096 deaths are generally supposed to be highly unpleasant) as well as the context in which they are doing so.

I don't think preventing this tactic outright is a good idea, as this is something that the Foundation would realistically do and I definitely feel that it's something valid to do against 096 breaches - But at the same time, I also feel like that there are issues that rise from allowing it as a meta and the weird roleplay intersectionality that I covered that comes from this whole 'sacrificial death for containment' trade which ultimately makes things a tiny bit unfair for 096 - a whitelisted SCP that doesn't take a great deal of effort to obtain, but in itself is still a bit more than just getting SCP levels - a lot less fun & appealing to breach as.

Spoiler: The other combative exception I mentioned earlier.

So, the Fivefold Mission actually complicates this a lot. On one hand yes, there's the survival of the wider populace, but also the GOC's own operatives. GOC operatives would not unnecessarily risk any human life - Which makes being an 096 target something of a First Mission Paradox.

I definitely think GOC operatives would reasonably use this tactic in the interest of First Mission concerns for the general population - But I'm really not sure how to parse this at all.

@Ronin thoughts?

Granted, this should all definitely be on a more case-by-case kind of basis, but I think there should be more granularity and consideration to these factors, but I also understand how this could also be difficult to enforce dependant on how granular it needs to be. Thank you for your time.

Uncommon Emilia L take. If I think I've seen 096's face as someone that knows what that means, I've essentially got two options: go back to its cell to try and recontain it if it comes for me, or try and escape it. I could only possibly escape it by going to surface and fleeing, and that would very possibly end the world if the right people saw it or it was broadcasted (e.g. on a traffic camera). If I'm at the level where I know what it means to see its face, I'm at the level where I knew the risks of being Foundation staff on a containment site, and I'm not going to put civilians in danger by fleeing. I'm going to go to its chamber, put on SCRAMBLEs, and look at a wall and hope that I was wrong about seeing its face enough to trigger it.

I would only consider it rule breaking if someone did this without having IC knowledge of how 096 works, e.g. a GSD cadet with no prior knowledge and nothing told to them over comms. But even then, someone else could convince them by just telling them "If you think you've seen 096's face, please head into HCZ, into the 096 containment and await further instructions."

 

[Emilia Foddg]

If I think I've seen 096's face as someone that knows what that means, I've essentially got two options: go back to its cell to try and recontain it if it comes for me, or try and escape it. I could only possibly escape it by going to surface and fleeing, and that would very possibly end the world if the right people saw it or it was broadcasted (e.g. on a traffic camera). If I'm at the level where I know what it means to see its face, I'm at the level where I knew the risks of being Foundation staff on a containment site, and I'm not going to put civilians in danger by fleeing. I'm going to go to its chamber, put on SCRAMBLEs, and look at a wall and hope that I was wrong about seeing its face enough to trigger it.

Uncommon Zen L take. Yes, the fact that you are even in Foundation employ in the first place could reasonably imply that you have the willpower to - in this situation - not panic, come to this level-headed conclusion and act it out; But I would assert that this cannot reasonably always be the case for everyone at all times, always.

Breaches are also not meant to be something that are expected IC - It's a containment site. In character, you'd expect breaches to be an unusual circumstance that... Doesn't never happen, but are definitely not something that happens frequently. Although I guess something like regular drills would make sense as a reason for instilling the needed behaviour.

I would only consider it rule breaking if someone did this without having IC knowledge of how 096 works, e.g. a GSD cadet with no prior knowledge and nothing told to them over comms. But even then, someone else could convince them by just telling them "If you think you've seen 096's face, please head into HCZ, into the 096 containment and await further instructions."

I just don't understand it overall; You especially are always talking about certain elements of things that don't make sense in roleplay, yet you're perfectly fine with 100% of Site staff always having an unshakeable iron will and the infallible capacity not to panic beyond reasonable thought, upon learning that they're going to die in a terrible, terrible way? For that matter, for an RP server based on a horror fiction, surely it's a little backwards that we pretty much always expect reasonable fear of death primarily in contemporary combat situations, but not so much from the actual horrors themselves.

 

[Zen]

Uncommon Zen L take. Yes, the fact that you are even in Foundation employ in the first place could reasonably imply that you have the willpower to - in this situation - not panic, come to this level-headed conclusion and act it out; But I would assert that this cannot reasonably always be the case for everyone at all times, always.

Breaches are also not meant to be something that are expected IC - It's a containment site. In character, you'd expect breaches to be an unusual circumstance that... Doesn't never happen, but are definitely not something that happens frequently. Although I guess something like regular drills would make sense as a reason for instilling the needed behaviour.


I just don't understand it overall; You especially are always talking about certain elements of things that don't make sense in roleplay, yet you're perfectly fine with 100% of Site staff always having an unshakeable iron will and the infallible capacity not to panic beyond reasonable thought, upon learning that they're going to die in a terrible, terrible way? For that matter, for an RP server based on a horror fiction, surely it's a little backwards that we pretty much always expect reasonable fear of death primarily in combat situations, but not so much from the actual horrors themselves.

Maybe. But I don't think a rule like this is the way to go. It requires that people always be stupid, as opposed to leaving it to people to just RP out whatever they think is sensible. If I was on a role that didn't know about 096, or was new, I'd maybe RP out not doing that, or running away, but on a character that's an expertienced Combat Medic, or Tech Expert? No.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Maybe. But I don't think a rule like this is the way to go. It requires that people always be stupid, as opposed to leaving it to people to just RP out whatever they think is sensible. If I was on a role that didn't know about 096, or was new, I'd maybe RP out not doing that, or running away, but on a character that's an expertienced Combat Medic, or Tech Expert? No.

..Hence my saying that this should generally be more case-by-case. I think leaving it too open could leave it too abusable by minges, but forcing it too much one way or the other, would not make sense/be too unbalanced/be too unfair in either direction, for reasons discussed. I think that if you're able to reasonably justify your actions, it should be fine.

And honestly, this wouldn't even a new rule. This would reasonably just be further clarification of FearRP/FailRP

 

[Zen]

..Hence my saying that this should generally be more case-by-case. I think leaving it too open could leave it too abusable by minges, but forcing it too much one way or the other, would not make sense/be too unbalanced/be too unfair in either direction, for reasons discussed. I think that if you're able to reasonably justify your actions, it should be fine.

And honestly, this wouldn't even a new rule. This would reasonably just be further clarification of FearRP/FailRP

Maybe? I'm not sure that really needs to be clarified though, it's kind of either "obvious metagaming" or "up to you", and I feel like any ruling or rule would just be problematic or useless.