Content Meeting Discussion [Content Team Thread] Community Ideas and Feedback - Chaos Insurgency

[Tay]

Chaos Insurgency Feedback & Suggestions Thread

Help us make the main opposition to the Foundation a fun challenge.​

Good morning Civil Gamers,

With the success of the two previous Community Ideas and Feedback threads, we have decided to create another for the Chaos Insurgency and begin making headway towards improving the faction both when playing as it and when facing it. We're aware that this will be a large task, and that lots of the community will have a bunch of different ideas, but with helpful debate, we aim to make the Chaos Insurgency a fair and interesting part of the server's gameplay loop.

So, whether you’re a DELCOM of the Chaos Insurgency, a Nu-7 PVT, part of DEA, a player who has interacted with them in roleplay, or simply just have ideas you think could help expand them as a whole, we want to hear it.

What We’re Aiming For:

We want the Chaos Insurgency to be:

• A faction with a clear identity separate from others within the server
• A collection of unique roleplay mechanisms that support a custom gameplay style not found anywhere else
• A group that is a threat, but not overpowering
• A functional yet fun way to disrupt Foundation, which has trade-offs for both sides and can be facilitated without combat as a first option
• A collection of non-disruptive activities to counter downtime that can be done independently without involving other factions

Some things to think about:

• What should the Chaos Insurgency be doing in between raids?
• How would the ideal Chaos Insurgency raid hamper the Foundation while remaining fun for both sides?
• Are there new tools, gear, or missions they could have?
• Are there better ways to overhaul the Chaos Insurgency's combat identity, similar to the UNGOC's recent overhaul?
• What resources or items could be added to the Chaos Insurgency that they can make use of, but are also desired and can be stolen/given to other factions, i.e. like the Neuro Controller.
• Would you like to see the Chaos Insurgency being given new SCP/anomalous items, and do you have any recommendations?

If you’ve got feedback, ideas, or even flat-out concepts. Please post them below! Just try to be detailed so we can fully understand what you’re suggesting. We’re open to all kinds of input, whether it’s a small tweak or a major shift.

Please know, while we will be reviewing all feedback, this does not mean everything said will be accepted by default. Ideas and feedback will be tallied up in a suggestion thread for Content Team and Senior Server Leadership+ to review.

Keep the thread on topic and respectful. We're aware that some people have strong opinions about the Chaos Insurgency, but expressing these in a non-constructive way will result in deletion, and you may be reply-banned.

Thanks for helping us keep the Chaos Insurgency unique, cool, and fun.

– The Content Team

 

[Kevin Ki]

Allow hacking of keypads with a addition option, that locks down the door for extended period 2+ minutes instead of base 1 minute at the cost of a increase in hacking level IE 2 or 1 level depending on balance

Fuck no

 

[Zen]

Allow hacking of keypads with a addition option, that locks down the door for extended period 2+ minutes instead of base 1 minute at the cost of a increase in hacking level IE 2 or 1 level depending on balance

On the topic of hacking, maybe a rework of how hacking works with SCPs? My idea was something like making it so starting a hack doesn't trigger an alert, but taking too long or failing/cancelling it would immediately trigger the old specific location alert (maybe reworded to like "Tamper Alert" or something). Succeeding a breach hack would trigger the voice line for a single breach that autobreaches get.

Would imo make sense - if tampering can be detected, it should be able to detect which SCP it's at, so the generic alert doesn't make much sense to me, but doesn't bring back the old shit of instant specific location knowledge so CI gets swarmed immediately. I would also suggest the time limit before the alert is sent for a hack should be the same for all SCPs - that way, it means that more difficult hacks (i.e. meta SCPs) have more risk to attempting to breach them, and it encourages CI to vary which SCPs they breach more, as they're more likely to be found and completely fail if they fuck up breaching a meta SCP as opposed to if they attempt to breach something like 939 or 082, but it's still completely possible for them to breach those meta SCPs as long as they prepare correctly.

 

[Glazzing]

Allow hacking of keypads with a addition option, that locks down the door for extended period 2+ minutes instead of base 1 minute at the cost of a increase in hacking level IE 2 or 1 level depending on balance

Fuck no

shh let me try and sneak something super op in!!!

 

[Glazzing]

On the topic of hacking, maybe a rework of how hacking works with SCPs? My idea was something like making it so starting a hack doesn't trigger an alert, but taking too long or failing/cancelling it would immediately trigger the old specific location alert (maybe reworded to like "Tamper Alert" or something). Succeeding a breach hack would trigger the voice line for a single breach that autobreaches get.

Would imo make sense - if tampering can be detected, it should be able to detect which SCP it's at, so the generic alert doesn't make much sense to me, but doesn't bring back the old shit of instant specific location knowledge so CI gets swarmed immediately. I would also suggest the time limit before the alert is sent for a hack should be the same for all SCPs - that way, it means that more difficult hacks (i.e. meta SCPs) have more risk to attempting to breach them, and it encourages CI to vary which SCPs they breach more, as they're more likely to be found and completely fail if they fuck up breaching a meta SCP as opposed to if they attempt to breach something like 939 or 082, but it's still completely possible for them to breach those meta SCPs as long as they prepare correctly.

The idea of the hacking notification being broadcasted with the voiceline from breachs would be cool, would add epic atmosphere for newer players to experience ci

 

[SamPaval]

Time for a big yap sessions. (UK perspective)

It's no suprise that chaos isn't Fun to fight in its current state. From combat to trying to rp with them it's just more of a headache then fun gameplay

I'll list some examples of how Chaos just aren't fun to fight against,

CI TB, this isn't a suprise. A 500 HP (however much armour) Near immortal Reality benders that can do practically anything on the server isn't fun to fight. "Oh boy, I peeked my head for 1.5 seconds and now I'm just dead." Or the Immense surviability with bullet freeze and inversion being able to be spammed. Doesn't help your allowed to use anima and potent basically making them a roided up scout. If a type blue and an Nu-7 juggernaut on Tylenol came face to face 1v1 style the TB would ALWAYS win.
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It's also not a shocker that nobody likes the inversion gun strategy where your immortal but can still fire. Or body swap kidnapping juggernauts. It's just simply not fun or fair,
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A suggestion some Nu-7 want is CI have to pick between a juggernaut or Type blue. Not both,
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Now onto CI juggernaut. The CI juggernaut by itself is fairly = to the nu-7 juggernaut. But it when used in tandem with chemicals and type blue. It's also immortal..
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That's about it for the specific classes. As delta and Marksmen have an equivalent on Nu-7 being autoriflemen. And Marksmen.
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Now for the strategies UK CI employ that No foundation member likes.
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Longer then necessary holds,

CI have had a giant history with holding a specific area for nearly 45+ minuets should there jug and TB not be able to be killed. This just ruins rp as after the first 20-25 minuets of a raid. And Johnsons on his 90th kill streak No nu-7 dea or AO wants to return to the hold only to die immediately again. It's gotten so bad we've reverted to just Not engaging CI when they do a longer then necessary hold as all it does is give them keycards or hostages. and no progress is made.

To fix this problem Add a timer to how long a hold can last. Time can be decided by SSL.
-----------------------------------
Base camping Foundation.

A giant annoyance that Chaos does to Foundation is when not raiding CI will intentionally sit ontop of Foundation sniper and Other hills Suto base camping waiting for Nu-7 or dea to leave and count in there head when they can be shot. This isn't fun for us as we legit cannot leave the damn gate without immediate risk of dying.
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To fix this problem Add onto the base camping rule that CI/Foundation may not Sit ontop of a Parawatch-foundation-sniper hill for more then 10 minuets with the intention of keeping Foundation inside there base.
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**mass breaching**
When CI do a mass breach raid, UK CI can breach scps in Under 2 minuets on an average day then they anima/potent there way to the next scp cell breach it quickly Rinse and repeat. I'm not 100% if a limit is put in rules, im kinda Grey on that,

But if there isn't one it needs to be put to a maximum of 2-3
--------------------------------‐------------

And another issue that's seen is the constant rule breaking CI does. Mainly teaming and mass toxicity. When CI does "scp --- flag on!" It's normally a CI player that flags onto it and then for the entire breach will proceed to ignore And even help Chaos during there raid. Everyone knows this is against rules And johnson has made attempts At stopping this by increasing Punishments on it but its a subconscious thing that happens every few ci breach raids and it's Hard to see or enforce without a staff member legit Spectating your breach waiting for you to fuck up.

The fix to this would be making it so if you are on the CI job you cant swap to the SCP being breached. Allow some other person that isn't typically affiliated with CI to play the scp. Won't 100% stop the teamings But will be an effort to halt them.

Now are alot of these liable to be called skill issues? Yes. But i don't think that matters in this context if it's clearly upsetting And annoying a decent portion of the player base.

 

[Niox]

Time for a big yap sessions. (UK perspective)

Want to comment on a few things on this.

CI TB, this isn't a suprise. A 500 HP (however much armour) Near immortal Reality benders that can do practically anything on the server isn't fun to fight. "Oh boy, I peeked my head for 1.5 seconds and now I'm just dead."

CI Type Blue can't easily max out at 500 HP, as inversion only works on hostiles. Even if F are shooting at a TB, they typically stop quick enough so that they only get around 350-400 HP. There's also what you bring up about insta kills (Or at least what I assume is such), and how they can kill you quickly, which is true, but they are used much less than you'd think. Normally TB's only use them when pushing through Foundation undetected, but if a CI TB is well known on Site, they would never use it, purely because of the amount of energy it costs.

Now onto CI juggernaut. The CI juggernaut by itself is fairly = to the nu-7 juggernaut. But it when used in tandem with chemicals and type blue. It's also immortal..

Ignoring the comment about Type Blue's, CI isn't the only faction who can use chemicals. I'm unsure which chemicals you're referring to for a Juggernaut (Excluding Combat Pots, which anyone can make, and don't require a TB to be good), but any Foundation personnel can make them.

Longer then necessary holds,

CI have had a giant history with holding a specific area for nearly 45+ minuets should there jug and TB not be able to be killed. This just ruins rp as after the first 20-25 minuets of a raid. And Johnsons on his 90th kill streak No nu-7 dea or AO wants to return to the hold only to die immediately again. It's gotten so bad we've reverted to just Not engaging CI when they do a longer then necessary hold as all it does is give them keycards or hostages. and no progress is made.

To fix this problem Add a timer to how long a hold can last. Time can be decided by SSL.

By definition ruleplay. Looking at it outside that, how about Foundation negotiate? I know it's absurd to think about, Foundation not throwing themselves at CI until they all die, but truly if CI are holding down somewhere, Foundation can negotiate for them to leave. Garage Hold? Give them some keycards. 106 hold? Give them some chemicals. Any other hold like ECO or F3? Ask them what their demands are.
Mentioned this in my post already, but valuing of ones life is an inherent issue with how the server works. Foundation die, come back, die, without a care in the world for what that means. CI will run into the facility, do some shit, die. Negotiating for these things would get CI out of the Site (Restoring RP quicker), spare Foundation resources of lives, and not donate guns from Foundation to CI!

Base camping Foundation.

A giant annoyance that Chaos does to Foundation is when not raiding CI will intentionally sit ontop of Foundation sniper and Other hills Suto base camping waiting for Nu-7 or dea to leave and count in there head when they can be shot. This isn't fun for us as we legit cannot leave the damn gate without immediate risk of dying.
--------------------------------‐------------
To fix this problem Add onto the base camping rule that CI/Foundation may not Sit ontop of a Parawatch-foundation-sniper hill for more then 10 minuets with the intention of keeping Foundation inside there base.

Surface purely needs a rework to change compound, because as it stands, it is in a ditch. I don't believe a rule would fix this, as it A) Hasn't multiple times in the past (Even with CI CO's cooperating with staff to cut the shit), and B) There is no way to determine someone's "intention" of base camping. "Your honour, I was simply just scouting!" type shit.

And another issue that's seen is the constant rule breaking CI does. Mainly teaming and mass toxicity. When CI does "scp --- flag on!" It's normally a CI player that flags onto it and then for the entire breach will proceed to ignore And even help Chaos during there raid. Everyone knows this is against rules And johnson has made attempts At stopping this by increasing Punishments on it but its a subconscious thing that happens every few ci breach raids and it's Hard to see or enforce without a staff member legit Spectating your breach waiting for you to fuck up.

The fix to this would be making it so if you are on the CI job you cant swap to the SCP being breached. Allow some other person that isn't typically affiliated with CI to play the scp. Won't 100% stop the teamings But will be an effort to halt them.

Now are alot of these liable to be called skill issues? Yes. But i don't think that matters in this context if it's clearly upsetting And annoying a decent portion of the player base.

CI players are often times the first ones asked to flag on, as it prevents metagame (By saying it in TS) and is very quick to do. I haven't a clue where mass toxicity comes from, but teaming is definitely an odd case, because it goes both ways.

For CI players who get on SCP, they're more amiable to making deals with CI because they want to be breached, and if they don't agree (Or break that deal) it's a detriment to themselves. There are also cases where CI are stupidly hard to kill (Think TB's, or CI on speed chems) and obviously SCP's won't chase them for eternity. There are cases however that cannot be denied, where SCP's are just teaming with CI.

As for F players who get on SCP, they don't care as much. They will break the deal because... Well fuck CI right? Kill indiscriminately, because you can. Chase and run down CI because it's a thrill to be going after a Type Blue trying his best to flee. Ironically, the reverse of SCP's teaming with CI can happen here, where they are directly focused out of spite.

How both these type of groups play SCP's are typically not inherently wrong (Outside of direct teaming/targeting), and to each of them makes logical sense. I think the issue more so just lies with how many CI players play SCP's, as they are often the first ones asked to get on, and it creates a big difference. I mean, SCP's won't be nice to you every time, surely, especially ones like 106 or 076.

 

[Headbutt]

A suggestion some Nu-7 want is CI have to pick between a juggernaut or Type blue. Not both,

If you want this suggestion then we should also remove the Nu7 Juggernaut. You cannot expect CI to raid against sometimes triple the amount of combatives while having one above average job.

Secondly, a lot of your complaints come from Foundation just being worse combat players than CI. The TB is perfectly balanced how it is and its also extremely difficult to be good at.

Lastly, I think if you really want to fix all the issues you have then get the foundation to become better. Trying to get a whole faction changed just because your faction is doing worse is honestly a bit childish. CI has been nerfed a fair few times but it hasn't seemed to fix the issue at all and people need to start realising that before trying to put a whole player base into the ground.

 

[Skittles]

By definition ruleplay. Looking at it outside that, how about Foundation negotiate? I know it's absurd to think about, Foundation not throwing themselves at CI until they all die, but truly if CI are holding down somewhere, Foundation can negotiate for them to leave. Garage Hold? Give them some keycards. 106 hold? Give them some chemicals. Any other hold like ECO or F3? Ask them what their demands are.
Mentioned this in my post already, but valuing of ones life is an inherent issue with how the server works. Foundation die, come back, die, without a care in the world for what that means. CI will run into the facility, do some shit, die. Negotiating for these things would get CI out of the Site (Restoring RP quicker), spare Foundation resources of lives, and not donate guns from Foundation to CI!

This is something that I've seen happen consistently for the past 3 years. It seems that SOP will put not losing above everything else to the detriment of the raid lasting longer. Too many times people yell "CI ruin RP" but the other side makes no attempt other than throwing themselves into the meatgrinder to restore said RP.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

This is something that I've seen happen consistently for the past 3 years. It seems that SOP will put not losing above everything else to the detriment of the raid lasting longer. Too many times people yell "CI ruin RP" but the other side makes no attempt other than throwing themselves into the meatgrinder to restore said RP.

Man, I feel for CT here, imagine starting a thread to fix one faction, then looking through and finding that it was the players that needed fixing all along

Honestly, this is a massive, massive issue and I think we should examine this a bit further to determine why combat over negotiation ends up being preferred, and my cursory analysis is along the lines of "there's more happening," in that simply just fighting over it makes sense as you're doing something. The idea that it's more instantly gratifying to just charge into a held position as opposed to sticking it out and trying to ring up CI over comms and talk about it, personally makes intrinsic sense to me. I think if there was more content for negotiation and more content that incentivised negotiation over combat, *cough cough* that would contribute significantly to this?

 

[Scopes]

Remove combat and speed chems

 

[Average member podidski]

This is something that I've seen happen consistently for the past 3 years. It seems that SOP will put not losing above everything else to the detriment of the raid lasting longer. Too many times people yell "CI ruin RP" but the other side makes no attempt other than throwing themselves into the meatgrinder to restore said RP.

true words.

 

["Aki"]

And another issue that's seen is the constant rule breaking CI does. Mainly teaming and mass toxicity. When CI does "scp --- flag on!" It's normally a CI player that flags onto it and then for the entire breach will proceed to ignore And even help Chaos during there raid. Everyone knows this is against rules And johnson has made attempts At stopping this by increasing Punishments on it but its a subconscious thing that happens every few ci breach raids and it's Hard to see or enforce without a staff member legit Spectating your breach waiting for you to fuck up.

The fix to this would be making it so if you are on the CI job you cant swap to the SCP being breached. Allow some other person that isn't typically affiliated with CI to play the scp. Won't 100% stop the teamings But will be an effort to halt them.

Now are alot of these liable to be called skill issues? Yes. But i don't think that matters in this context if it's clearly upsetting And annoying a decent portion of the player base.

Sorry? CI Does "mainly teaming" AND "mass toxicity?", Dude... you're a staff member you can handle that; both of these are entirely staff issues... no one tells "SCPs" to team dude. main reason for CI being told to flag is to stop metagame...


remember that CI CO's aren't staff members.. and they can't handle anything without you reporting it... these two things Especially "mass toxicity" haven't been a issue for a good amount of time and why is no one reporting them to CO's.

 

[SamPaval]

Sorry? CI Does "mainly teaming" AND "mass toxicity?", Dude... you're a staff member you can handle that; both of these are entirely staff issues... no one tells "SCPs" to team dude. main reason for CI being told to flag is to stop metagame...


remember that CI CO's aren't staff members.. and they can't handle anything without you reporting it... these two things Especially "mass toxicity" haven't been a issue for a good amount of time and why is no one reporting them to CO's.

We do. But staff have to specifically watch a breach to see if there teaming or not which in turns ruins there own rp And time. As its insanely hard to prove the CI player on 7722 is intentionally not going for them or just happened to miss them. that just ends up ruining are own RP and wasting are time fishing for a warn. any time i see valid teaming i report it to a CO/Johnson immediately yet its still happening and wont ever stop as its a subconscious thing

 

[SamPaval]

Want to comment on a few things on this.


CI Type Blue can't easily max out at 500 HP, as inversion only works on hostiles. Even if F are shooting at a TB, they typically stop quick enough so that they only get around 350-400 HP. There's also what you bring up about insta kills (Or at least what I assume is such), and how they can kill you quickly, which is true, but they are used much less than you'd think. Normally TB's only use them when pushing through Foundation undetected, but if a CI TB is well known on Site, they would never use it, purely because of the amount of energy it costs.

just commenting on this as i dont have alot of time,

A TB can easily get 500 HP by having a MC&D or D class shoot you before hand to get 500 HP, and its not hard to get at minimum 200 health more as its instinct to shoot anyone wearing green immediately. skill issue? maybe. but saying it isnt easy to get 500 HP is wrong

 

[JasonTheCheesyGuy]

Sup! So, there's a *lot* of things in this thread to respond to, my my!

Lets uh, keep it to the main core questions posed by the Content team!

What should the Chaos Insurgency be doing in between raids?

Interacting with RP within Pinewood/Lake with MC&D, anything that gets them outside of their own base, but also is not them sitting on Fhill waiting for any SOP to depart Compound just to immediately laser them. My own experiences as DEA/Nu7/CI/GOC have shown me that a lot of the time, CI players will move to Fhill and just hold there- That stiffles any surface RP from SOP, as they cannot depart.

Lowering the motive to hold upon Fhill and instead moving towards locations such as Pinewood or Lakehouse will permit SOP to depart their base, and will give CI something to do other than running around Fhill with a deployable shield, waiting for F to leave so that they can get more kills.

A few examples I read above are things such as more frequent surface missions, more Civilian RP, or a full surface map rework to expand its scale to change hotspot locations away from Compound.

How would the ideal Chaos Insurgency raid hamper the Foundation while remaining fun for both sides?

Personally, what I like about CI raids;
- Swift paced action and mobile gunfights in corridors
- Combat in large open spaces such as PW, D-Block/Med Corridor, Lobby.
- Defensive positions being taken throughout the facility and responding to comms calls, staying on the feet and moving.

What I don't like about CI raids;
- Long-holds in any one location.
- Combat in tight quarters without movement, such as most SCP containment chambers.
- Disruption of gameplay loop (Though, I will remain with the point that this is partly because of F player's mindset. Let testing continue if CI are in HCZ, provided its an LCZ test!)

As such, I'd advocate for a larger emphasis on making Insurgency raids significantly more mobile. More time spent in the corridors in, prefferably smaller, groups and engaging eachother in swift but decisive gunfights that do not develop into a permanent slog, but rather provide opportunity for flanking movements and tactics rather than being dead-end rooms and a single door to fight over.

Are there new tools, gear, or missions they could have?

An increase in Cmissions within the facility that count as Raid Objectives, that encourage a "Go to X location, then return back to base" playstyle over a "Hold until the last man" playstyle. CI Raids would be over faster, permitting other gameplay to continue, if they had a reason to Exfil more frequently.

As for tools and gear, I urge to go to Marvin's suggestion. Peak ideas there.

Are there better ways to overhaul the Chaos Insurgency's combat identity, similar to the UNGOC's recent overhaul?

The current CI Combat identity is effectively heavy holds in defensive positions, with no regard for mobility. This is shown in their equipment also; A lot of deployable shields and weapons with large ammo capacity but relatively low RPM, traded with high damage.

To reach what I discussed above about making CI significantly more mobile as a combat force is to trade off defensive equipment such as LMG's and Shields for more offensive equipment, making pushing out and into situations easier than holding them. A few key examples would include;

High-ROF SMG's with smaller ammo capacity, well suited to quick movement and killing of personnel, but not to long holds.
Removal of the prevelance of LMG's amongst CI's equipment
Removal of shields and replacement with more offensive equipment such as grenades (Or a specific grenadier role! That'd be cool!)
Increase of mobility-required tasks, specifically around breaches. Please consider the following proposal;

Disallow the making of deals with anomalies such as 'Don't kill us in exchange for the breach'. Instead, make it so that once a hack is successful a timer begins that gives CI time to get out of dodge from the anomaly that is being breached, forcing a quick exit lest they perish. Permit Foundation the chance to stop the breach if they reach the hackbox within time and complete a hack of their own.

It encourages a much more mobile playstyle, as holding an SCP's chamber while they breach and go out will no longer be possible.

What resources or items could be added to the Chaos Insurgency that they can make use of, but are also desired and can be stolen/given to other factions, i.e. like the Neuro Controller.
Would you like to see the Chaos Insurgency being given new SCP/anomalous items, and do you have any recommendations?

For these two, I point back to Marvin's ideas. Good stuff there!

 

[JasonTheCheesyGuy]

just commenting on this as i dont have alot of time,

A TB can easily get 500 HP by having a MC&D or D class shoot you before hand to get 500 HP, and its not hard to get at minimum 200 health more as its instinct to shoot anyone wearing green immediately. skill issue? maybe. but saying it isnt easy to get 500 HP is wrong

I'd like to quickly add on that SCP's can also do this, and CI (On UK at least!) frequently uses SCP's such as SCP-682 to raise the TB's health to max as part of a breach 'deal'.