Denied Raise Cadet Levels

[Ace 63]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Changes the level of GSD Cadet to be higher.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I do not believe so.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
Keeps RDM rates down. Makes the reputation of GSD not mingey and and stupid.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
Makes it harder to start and get combat Exp. Gets rid of the cohesion that comes with being able to pick a department at total level 5.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I understand the idea of cohesion by picking a department. The only issue is GSD gets you a gun which gives new players the responsibility to not RDM as having a gun is a gateway to staff issues. This change would make it harder for people to get on GSD but they way that it is now is any d class with more than one brain cell gets a gun and doesn’t know any of the rules. The test can be easily cheated and is simply some questions. The only other option is to make GSD one of those jobs you have to be trained for.

 

[Prplex]

+Support
I think the best way to go about it is to have them get level 5 on support or research as well as d class that way there's time to observe how gensec do their job etc and would let them experience a bit more of the game before they get handed a gun and the associated responsibilities. Obviously this doesn't stop minging entirely but would reduce it in d block overall

 

[ToasterStrudels]

-Support

This is a staff problem. If a Cadet is RDMing just call an admin to take care of it.

 

[Joris "Brexit" Bohnson]

-Support

No. Just no

Cl1 roles are meant to be easy to obtain. And by gatekeeping them to a higher level or making it so they automatically need to attend a tryout/take a lengthened quiz to get the role would Greatly reduce interest in it and the server as a whole

 

[Prplex]

-Support

This is a staff problem. If a Cadet is RDMing just call an admin to take care of it.

Why not try stop it happening before it does in the first place

 

[Geronimo]

- Support
I think that any CL1 role can easily RDM by picking up a gun or visiting a weapons locker. If you raise the cadet level then they'll just use other jobs.

 

[Ace 63]

- Support
I think that any CL1 role can easily RDM by picking up a gun or visiting a weapons locker. If you raise the cadet level then they'll just use other jobs.

Fair point, would still keep GSD from being seen as the most shit department lol

 

[Joris "Brexit" Bohnson]

Why not try stop it happening before it does in the first place

I mean by that logic; Jr Researcher, Chef, Medical Trainee and engineer should also all be Raised because people could Failrp on them

 

[ToasterStrudels]

Why not try stop it happening before it does in the first place

As someone else said above. CL1 roles are meant to be easy to get and if were going to gatekeep them then players will lose interest in the server. Making a level req to prevent MRDM won't do anything besides hurt the server.

 

[Skittles]

-Support

 

[Yeke]

This would be harmful to the new player experience, extending the time they have to wait to get out of d-class, GENSEC is a very attractive starting job for lots of players, now I understand that RDM is a concern, however as stated that's a staff issue not a issue that will magically go away by raising the levels, most GENSEC are products of their environment, they join the server, join GENSEC and then no one interacts with them, so they just follow the experience that has been given to them by other players whilst they were on D-class.

The way this is solved is by having active Captains / Chiefs that get regularly involved with cadets and make their RP special by creating scenarios and instigating roleplay.

See below medal clip, although light hearted, it made the guys day and im pretty sure he was one of the few that got down and roleplayed properly because people gave him the chance and worked with him

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/ElmjsHsMzhkra/d1337tqgzlbn?invite=cr-MSxnSm4sMjMzMzA4Nyw

Kind Regards
Yeke

 

[Biscuits]

what an amazing clip yeke

 

[Emilia Foddg]

one thing people aren't thinking of is this also has a domino effect on MTFs, wherein improving the quality of gensec also recruits the quality of the Nu-7 & E-11 recruitment pool, which in turn improves the quality of those regiments. at least in theory.

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This is a staff problem. If a Cadet is RDMing just call an admin to take care of it.

Cl1 roles are meant to be easy to obtain.

CL1 roles are meant to be easy to get and if were going to gatekeep them then players will lose interest in the server. Making a level req to prevent MRDM won't do anything besides hurt the server.

This would be harmful to the new player experience, extending the time they have to wait to get out of d-class, GENSEC is a very attractive starting job for lots of players, now I understand that RDM is a concern, however as stated that's a staff issue not a issue that will magically go away by raising the levels, most GENSEC are products of their environment, they join the server, join GENSEC and then no one interacts with them, so they just follow the experience that has been given to them by other players whilst they were on D-class.

i think a lot of this is not taking into account the matter that there is slightly too much skew towards combative gameplay right now - as well as upcoming planned implementations that interfere with the combative/non-combative gameplay balance, as well as implementations that have been postponed because they would tip that skew far too much towards the combative side of things (although tbf, implementing planned changes to engineering departments would introduce some needed focus on non-combative gameplay imo - i hope those are coming along decently).

if most gensec are a product of their environment, dependent solely on the presence and performance of captains and chiefs of security; honestly to be fair - i don't think it's fair or otherwise reasonably sustainable, to entirely saddle the responsibilities of ensuring that new players aren't as inclined toward mingery as they could be, on people that can't always be available or catch absolutely everything. that being said, i understand why we can't unnecessarily disrupt the new player experience and need to have it so that players can reasonably get into CL1 jobs with... not no effort, but not too much that it's off-putting.

while you should be encouraged to do roleplay more than you are combat on cadet jobs, the unfortunate truth is that the majority of a given player's experience on a combative job... is going to be combative. so a new player gets into that combative gameplay and then further contributes to the overall skew towards combative gameplay.

honestly, after thinking about this, as much as i want the quality of the tryout recruit pool gensec to improve, i don't think raising total level req on cadet will do it.
-Support
for raising total level

however,
+Support
for a potential revision of the new player experience and the flow of how they progress into the server. i think there should be more encouragement of jobs centred around roleplay. maybe cadet needing research or support level 2 or 3, i don't know. maybe levels overall as a system needs looking at.

 

[Niox]

no

 

[Skinner]

I don't believe raising the level requirement for the only combative job newly starting players can play on would be essential to earn or gather better minded Cadets, it would also destabilise the experience for new players. While I do acknowledge the fact that some Cadets are pretty stupid at times, this is not FiveM DOJ roleplay and people do not have to operate via the agreement of being dead serious and wanting to learn 24/7, you will never find that in a newly starting player within General Security.

I genuinely hope Security Captains, and other members of this community actually raise the concern of teaching new players, instead of bashing the issue from their mistakes and not do anything but soy when confronted about it (Which is not what I am highlighting with your post, but rather describing what I see most times when I'm on as CoS). If you just work to teach Cadets the simple ropes and standards that we expect from them now and in their future positions, then I strongly believe they'll lock in and perform well.

Adding onto this, You'll never find a Gmod server that doesn't have new players RDMing others the second they get their hand on a gun; unless you process it in the setting of a serious roleplay server (which is not this server at it's fullest, aka semi serious roleplay) where people will immediatly recognise it's boots on ground and not shits and giggles. If you get RDMed, why not make a sit and allow that Cadet or whoever to repent for their mistake and learn properly?

I'll leave it at that, with a -Support.

 

[Skinner]

This would be harmful to the new player experience, extending the time they have to wait to get out of d-class, GENSEC is a very attractive starting job for lots of players, now I understand that RDM is a concern, however as stated that's a staff issue not a issue that will magically go away by raising the levels, most GENSEC are products of their environment, they join the server, join GENSEC and then no one interacts with them, so they just follow the experience that has been given to them by other players whilst they were on D-class.

The way this is solved is by having active Captains / Chiefs that get regularly involved with cadets and make their RP special by creating scenarios and instigating roleplay.

See below medal clip, although light hearted, it made the guys day and im pretty sure he was one of the few that got down and roleplayed properly because people gave him the chance and worked with him

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/ElmjsHsMzhkra/d1337tqgzlbn?invite=cr-MSxnSm4sMjMzMzA4Nyw

Kind Regards
Yeke

Mercer Gaming, what an honorable member!

 

[Foxatron]

Suggestion Denied​

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Hi @Ace 63 ,Thanks for taking the time to make a server suggestion.

The Content Team has chosen to deny your suggestion due to the following reasons. This is a new job and new players require access to this so that they can learn how the server works including rule, locking this would cause catastrophic harm to our server.
Your suggestion will now be locked and marked as denied.

kind regards

Foxatron​