Partially Accepted Redacting Specific Jobs on TAB menu

[Jack Raider]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This suggestion redacts specific information about some of the jobs on the TAB menu.
Some examples (if you have better ideas make sure to send them in the comments!):

General Security Department:
Cadet, Guard, Officer, Sergeant would be displayed as -> General Security
Response Unit -> Riot Control Units or remain the same
Containment Unit would remain the same
Captains and Chiefs would also remain the same

Research Department, Medical Department would remain the same as it is important for leads of these departments to be able to check who and what rank is and isn't on the server (for license trainings, onboardings etc.).

Internal Security Department:
Internal Security Agents, Operatives, Investigators -> Internal Security Operative
CL4+ would remain the same

External Affairs Department would go as followed:
External Affairs Agents, Operative, Senior Agent and Field Agent (because he can be metagamed to be a marksman on surface) would be displayed as -> External Affairs Operative
The rest of CL4+ jobs would remain the same.

SCPs would be changed to ONLY display SCP (without the specific number, which would cut off on hard to detect (for staff) metagaming)

MTF/CI/GOC jobs would only display jobs that are Officer+ (this includes removing juggernaut and TB from the display to avoid metagaming) as usual, the rest would just be MTF/CI/UNGOC 'X' Operative
For example if someone is on MTF Nu-7 Marksman job it would show him as MTF Nu-7 Operative on the TAB menu.
But if someone is on MTF Nu7 Officer job it would remain the same as it is now.
If someone is on CI Type-Blue it would display him as Chaos Insurgency Operative and so on.

EDIT: recruits from both CI and UNGOC would remain the same (for raid auth reasons - forgot to include them in the first place).

D-class personnel would all be displayed as Class D Personnel - so TB, Scout, Brute, Janitor wouldn't be identifiable by pressing the TAB menu.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
No (at least from what I checked).

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Massively decreases soft metagaming that is hard to detect by the Staff Team.
- Gives more immerssion to the server.
- High Staff members should be able to make it happen - possibility of no devtime being required.
- Silent breaches (SCP-035 and SCP-079) become actually useful, as they cannot be simply checked by looking at the TAB menu and elminating them. (Combatives got to check them manually now rather than instantly knowing that they're not on Site).
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Honestly? I personally do not see any other than potential devtime.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I believe this should be accepted due to soft, undetectable by logs or clips metagaming is a massive issue on the server and this suggestion would only work in favor of the server health + would give more immerssion to the experience of the SCP-RP world.

Credits to @Charles "Ze" Whitmee for giving me the idea to post this suggestion

 

['Torrent']

+Support

 

[Michael Dzhetnikov]

+Support

At least add it for SCPs

I swear we have made it the norm to only check SCPs that are on according to the leaderboard whilst saying something like "Check all onsite SCPs" when technically they are all meant to be onsite.

 

[Recker]

+Support​

​

Remove metagaming!​

 

[Trusty]

+Support
If anything, the SCP part would be the best one to keep if it was denied partially, prevents metagame for sure

 

[Rushi]

I have been thinking for a couple of weeks on something like this aswell, although a bit different. It would basically group like: All MTF would simply show as "MTF or Mobile Task Force", Research departnent as Researcher, Medical Department as Medical and so on...

So basically it wouldnt show any job at all and just as the general department, including CL4+.

Could also do for SCPs aswell.

 

[Recker]

I have been thinking for a couple of weeks on something like this aswell, although a bit different. It would basically group like: All MTF would simply show as "MTF or Mobile Task Force", Research departnent as Researcher, Medical Department as Medical and so on...

So basically it wouldnt show any job at all and just as the general department, including CL4+.

Could also do for SCPs aswell.

I love this idea. Would you include a command though to check for the appropriate amount of personnel for raids and such for MTF/CI/GOC in order to prevent people from accidentally breaking the raiding rule though?

 

[Jack Raider]

I love this idea. Would you include a command though to check for the appropriate amount of personnel for raids and such for MTF/CI/GOC in order to prevent people from accidentally breaking the raiding rule though?

This is why I decided to keep CL4+ jobs in - simply raid authing reasons and to dodge unneeded sits asking if there is someone who could auth the raid.

 

[Jack Raider]

I have been thinking for a couple of weeks on something like this aswell, although a bit different. It would basically group like: All MTF would simply show as "MTF or Mobile Task Force", Research departnent as Researcher, Medical Department as Medical and so on...

So basically it wouldnt show any job at all and just as the general department, including CL4+.

Could also do for SCPs aswell.

This sounds interesting however due to raid and induction/licenses reasons CL4 jobs should stay visible.

 

[Niox]

This sounds interesting however due to raid and induction/licenses reasons CL4 jobs should stay visible.

Would that include AO? Currently for UK CI, we only raid F3/ECO if there are 4 of their equating AO online, so not being able to see them would be an issue. Can't really ask as well, because that is A) Metabaiting and will B) Be Metagamed (this was put on full display last friday LMAO). Best substitute would be looking in the TS, but AO TS can have lots of people in there that aren't A1, such as OSA's, SA, A1 who aren't on the job, etc.
Although it's an IC policy, it may still cause some issues.

As for CL4, that could be kept to just an internal thing (E.G. If you're on F you can see your CL4's, but of you're on CI you can't). Only raid complication I see occurring is DEA Special Agent+, as CI can substitute them for MTF if they want to raid, but this is mostly a low pop thing iirc, and isn't the words largest price to pay.

But, if you want to stick with anyone can see CL4's jobs, instead of showing specifically the CL4+'s job (E.G. Nu7 Officer, Nu7 Commander) for all, instead it could be more just an umbrella term? Like, Nu7 Officer would stay the same, but Nu7 Commander would change to Nu7 Officer. Unsure what substitutes could be used for other DPT's like GSD or RSD could use, perhaps dropping something like CoS down to CPT on the tab list?

anywho yapper done gg

 

[Jack Raider]

Would that include AO? Currently for UK CI, we only raid F3/ECO if there are 4 of their equating AO online, so not being able to see them would be an issue. Can't really ask as well, because that is A) Metabaiting and will B) Be Metagamed (this was put on full display last friday LMAO). Best substitute would be looking in the TS, but AO TS can have lots of people in there that aren't A1, such as OSA's, SA, A1 who aren't on the job, etc.
Although it's an IC policy, it may still cause some issues.

As for CL4, that could be kept to just an internal thing (E.G. If you're on F you can see your CL4's, but of you're on CI you can't). Only raid complication I see occurring is DEA Special Agent+, as CI can substitute them for MTF if they want to raid, but this is mostly a low pop thing iirc, and isn't the words largest price to pay.

But, if you want to stick with anyone can see CL4's jobs, instead of showing specifically the CL4+'s job (E.G. Nu7 Officer, Nu7 Commander) for all, instead it could be more just an umbrella term? Like, Nu7 Officer would stay the same, but Nu7 Commander would change to Nu7 Officer. Unsure what substitutes could be used for other DPT's like GSD or RSD could use, perhaps dropping something like CoS down to CPT on the tab list?

anywho yapper done gg

When it comes to AO it would be the same as with all other MTF regiments - Everyone but CO jobs would be displayed as Alpha-1/Omega-1 Operative, to the rest we will see how content wishes to do that!

 

[Rushi]

I love this idea. Would you include a command though to check for the appropriate amount of personnel for raids and such for MTF/CI/GOC in order to prevent people from accidentally breaking the raiding rule though?

This is just some ideas that I personally had, and doesn’t mean this might be accepted or implemented.

But, changes to rules could always be made that would make this possible.

This sounds interesting however due to raid and induction/licenses reasons CL4 jobs should stay visible.

As I've said, rules changes could always be made . As for inductions/licenses, I think it would be more interesting if people tried to seek them more IC (i.e.:by asking in comms or try to find the person).

 

[Dusk]

I have been thinking for a couple of weeks on something like this aswell, although a bit different. It would basically group like: All MTF would simply show as "MTF or Mobile Task Force", Research departnent as Researcher, Medical Department as Medical and so on...

So basically it wouldnt show any job at all and just as the general department, including CL4+.

Could also do for SCPs aswell.

That's a good idea but at that point you might as well just completely redact the information until a person sees them in character.

The same could be said for scps but not showing what active scps are online negatively influences parties that have to deal with them

 

[Froggo]

+Support

Me and pinhead have literally talked about this and i was even drafting a suggestion to something like this and i assume this is in the change but please make DC type jobs also just say operative instead of you know DC

 

[IGNVexary]

+Support - I have been metagamed as D Class Type Blue and CI Deep Cover.

 

[Bob "Gustav" Smith]

- Support
larp suggestion

 

[Bananolas]

+Support
This as been a topic talked about so much and people actually seem to like the idea

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

I have been thinking for a couple of weeks on something like this aswell, although a bit different. It would basically group like: All MTF would simply show as "MTF or Mobile Task Force", Research departnent as Researcher, Medical Department as Medical and so on...

So basically it wouldnt show any job at all and just as the general department, including CL4+.

Could also do for SCPs aswell.

I have a quick question about this:

When CI raid stuff like ECO/F3, they say they will wait for minimum of 4 A1/O1 to be online to raid the said place. If the tab menu just displays mobile task force, without specifying which ones, how will they check? Would this be a staff thing and if so, would it encourage metagaming, ie people will no longer raid if the admin tells them there is loads of A1/O1 on their respective areas.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

+Support
Everything I'd like to say has already been said. If this is reasonably doable with care for things such as necessary staff information for metagaming sits, as well as necessary CI information for raids, then this is a change I would encourage.

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

unless they also remove the job limits on the f4 tab (e.g. 2/3 d class scouts) it'll be equally easy to meta this kind of stuff, otherwise +support for SCPs

 

[Yeke]

Just to throw a spanner in the works here.

This change has other issues with it;

1. Staff need to see who is on what job for prevention of rule violation, however this is a first hurdle, this will unintentionally lead to staff also metagaming themselves and telling people "oh yeah SCP-7722 is on" or "Don't worry its only 3 MTF XYZ privates" this also falls onto GMs and Devs who will have the same access, essentially creating a tiered play.

P.S I know staff shouldn't be doing this, however human nature is that it will happen. (Staff as in, Moderation, GMs, Devs)

2. SCPs, knowing what SCP on site is crucial for new players in order to understand the loop, especially if they are in research, hiding this solves one aspect but damages another fragile part of our ecosystem.

3. You mentioned silent breaches being useful, however players now have it engrained in them that any type of breach they check those 2 SCPs immediately, this wouldn't counter it necessarily, however in doing this to combat one problem, you end up with the above problem too.

4. I would like to add you state it would reduce metagaming, I personally disagree on the notion that players with all due respect will call metagaming no matter what (Yes im talking about you deep covers who are disguised as a janitor running around with a CL4 out in the open and looking gobsmacked when caught and then call meta), i feel we will still have the same frequency of sits, and i feel it would also blur into point 1 i made earlier.

The above points are my own opinions and not indicative of a denial / acceptance