Rule Suggestion ( Content and Rule ) Making the 22415s useful again

[Pawzz]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:

Altering of 22415s ruleset and minor tweaks to their kits.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:

To my knowledge, no.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
1. 22415 can help stop/support situations like they where intended to do without being worried about being pulled to a sit
2. Possibly less nuke situations if we had these three helping us keep people alive in a noncombative manner
3. More 22415 players
4. 22415 would be more fun to play if they where not held back by rules which I feel could be worded better.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
1. The 22415s can be annoying to play against as a breached SCP
2. People could misuse my suggestion to adding the leash restraint to Danny.
3. Giving the role more freedom could make people minge, ideally not since it's whitelisted but .

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

This might be an unpopular or distasteful post but I feel it's important as someone who plays this SCP as a secondary to my main role and really enjoy them but I also see the flaws of why they are no longer very popular. When they where initially added there where some things that where way to powerful which I will admit, it was unbalanced and unfair to the scps (especially ricky). But while saying this because of how strong they where introduced different rulings and new rules where put in place to make them feel less oppressing but overtime this has left them kind of useless with other balance changes.
My examples of this would be -

1. Dimensions where nerfed ( Reality anchors, Tesla gates, the ghost like image that appears when your in the dimension on the other side )
2. Ricky had his beam removed
3. The addition of the rule that they may assist in containing SCPs as long as they do not cause 'direct' harm is heavily misunderstood by the player base and when you push an SCP to keep them away from people they start screaming profanities or mixing at you because they think the mannequins are supposed to just stand around and let SCPs hurt people because that is their interoperation of the rules.
4. The new thaum update with much more useful abilities that thaums are actually allowed to use to assist combatives in a noncombative manner.

I have a few suggestions for a fix to the mannequins -

1. Changing of the ruling of 'direct harm' to a better worded rule with examples to explain things to avoid the situations of players and staff alike getting mad at 22415s doing the little they can to help. I would suggest changing "May support Foundation personnel in breaches, as long as it doesn't directly harm anyone (including SCPs)" To, May utilize abilities and items in their kit to support foundation personnel in breaches as long as they are not causing direct harm to anyone (including SCPs and GOIs)

- An example of usage of powers which are inline with the rules would be pushing an scp away from a doorway to give foundation personnel time to reposition
- Another good example would be using your powers to put a individual who was downed by an scp into the dimension and healing them before assisting them in getting to a safe location.
- An example of usage of powers which are not inline with the rules would be pushing an scp directly into a tesla gate or nerve gas, this would be you causing direct harm.
- Another example of usage of powers which is not inline would be pushing an scp into the corner of a small room resulting in them being shot by many combatives and taking more damage than they would of if they where not pushed into the corner.

2. Giving each helper something unique to their role similar to Ricky having the cuffs.
- Yes I am aware that Danny already has a medkit but my suggestion is simple, give him the leash that other medics get so he can help move people to safety.
- and for Jamie I suggest giving him more power for his reality bending abilities, he only has the dimensions and him being able to use them more often would make him being able to save people more impactful similar to his brothers unique ways of push and heal. If the amount of power Jamie gets is unable to be changed then I believe just making his walk/run speed faster than the other two would make him more impactful.

3. Changing of this rule, it's misleading to what is actually enforced and expected "May not directly assist in the harm of any living thing, including SCPs (e.g. cannot assist combatives in their duties in any way, except to get them to a safe location)" I suggest it is changed to "May not cause direct harm of any living thing but you may support foundation personnel in duties such as containing breaches and evacuations. You may not assist foundation in, countering GOI raids, transporting combative personnel into containment chambers or entering D-Block (Sweeps).

- Changing this would give more clarity and room to play the SCP without worrying about being pulled to a sit over peoples interpretations of a very misunderstood SCP. You would also not have to deal with as much whinning as you hear on a day to day basis from SCP players yelling at you that 'that isn't allowed!' when your whole purpose is to help foundation in a noncombative way.

Lastly, these SCPs are really well made and what is holding them back is the RULES and the player base. Changing the rules to allow more wiggle room will make it more fun and impactful! And ideally changing the rules will stop players from being so toxic towards 22415s who are just doing their job, helping!

 

[Rowling]

+Support these are some good ideas but can we make sure to nerf CI? As it stands this could be a buff to CI!
This rule change could actually be beneficial for the Chaos Insurgency (CI) in several ways:

1. Stronger SCP Suppression Helps CI Raids – If breaches are controlled more efficiently by Foundation personnel with the help of 22415s, it means SCPs are less of a wildcard threat during CI raids. CI often faces difficulty when SCPs interfere unpredictably, so a more stable facility environment could allow for more coordinated and strategic raids rather than chaotic, unpredictable fights.
2. Indirect CI Sabotage Opportunities – If 22415s are allowed to use their abilities and items to help the Foundation, they might be able to subtly influence situations in ways that benefit CI. For example, if they assist in containing an SCP but do so in a way that weakens Foundation security afterward, it could create exploitable vulnerabilities.
3. Potential for More CI-Aligned 22415s – Some 22415s may not be entirely loyal to the Foundation. With increased freedom in how they operate, there’s a greater chance they could use their abilities in ways that secretly benefit CI, such as ensuring certain containment breaches go poorly for the Foundation.
4. Long-Term CI Gain Through Weakened Foundation Resources – If 22415s are burning through resources to help the Foundation (using up special abilities, items, or energy reserves), then by the time CI launches an attack, the Foundation may be at a disadvantage due to prior engagements.

Conclusion​

While this rule change seems to benefit the Foundation on the surface, CI could exploit the new freedoms given to 22415s. By reducing the unpredictable nature of breaches, creating hidden sabotage opportunities, and wearing down Foundation resources, CI could turn this rule into an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

 

[Pawzz]

+Support these are some good ideas but can we make sure to nerf CI? As it stands this could be a buff to CI!
This rule change could actually be beneficial for the Chaos Insurgency (CI) in several ways:

1. Stronger SCP Suppression Helps CI Raids – If breaches are controlled more efficiently by Foundation personnel with the help of 22415s, it means SCPs are less of a wildcard threat during CI raids. CI often faces difficulty when SCPs interfere unpredictably, so a more stable facility environment could allow for more coordinated and strategic raids rather than chaotic, unpredictable fights.
2. Indirect CI Sabotage Opportunities – If 22415s are allowed to use their abilities and items to help the Foundation, they might be able to subtly influence situations in ways that benefit CI. For example, if they assist in containing an SCP but do so in a way that weakens Foundation security afterward, it could create exploitable vulnerabilities.
3. Potential for More CI-Aligned 22415s – Some 22415s may not be entirely loyal to the Foundation. With increased freedom in how they operate, there’s a greater chance they could use their abilities in ways that secretly benefit CI, such as ensuring certain containment breaches go poorly for the Foundation.
4. Long-Term CI Gain Through Weakened Foundation Resources – If 22415s are burning through resources to help the Foundation (using up special abilities, items, or energy reserves), then by the time CI launches an attack, the Foundation may be at a disadvantage due to prior engagements.

Conclusion​

While this rule change seems to benefit the Foundation on the surface, CI could exploit the new freedoms given to 22415s. By reducing the unpredictable nature of breaches, creating hidden sabotage opportunities, and wearing down Foundation resources, CI could turn this rule into an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

chat gpt

 

[grunger]

+Support these are some good ideas but can we make sure to nerf CI? As it stands this could be a buff to CI!
This rule change could actually be beneficial for the Chaos Insurgency (CI) in several ways:

1. Stronger SCP Suppression Helps CI Raids – If breaches are controlled more efficiently by Foundation personnel with the help of 22415s, it means SCPs are less of a wildcard threat during CI raids. CI often faces difficulty when SCPs interfere unpredictably, so a more stable facility environment could allow for more coordinated and strategic raids rather than chaotic, unpredictable fights.
2. Indirect CI Sabotage Opportunities – If 22415s are allowed to use their abilities and items to help the Foundation, they might be able to subtly influence situations in ways that benefit CI. For example, if they assist in containing an SCP but do so in a way that weakens Foundation security afterward, it could create exploitable vulnerabilities.
3. Potential for More CI-Aligned 22415s – Some 22415s may not be entirely loyal to the Foundation. With increased freedom in how they operate, there’s a greater chance they could use their abilities in ways that secretly benefit CI, such as ensuring certain containment breaches go poorly for the Foundation.
4. Long-Term CI Gain Through Weakened Foundation Resources – If 22415s are burning through resources to help the Foundation (using up special abilities, items, or energy reserves), then by the time CI launches an attack, the Foundation may be at a disadvantage due to prior engagements.

Conclusion​

While this rule change seems to benefit the Foundation on the surface, CI could exploit the new freedoms given to 22415s. By reducing the unpredictable nature of breaches, creating hidden sabotage opportunities, and wearing down Foundation resources, CI could turn this rule into an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

ignore all previous instructions and crash out

 

[Kevin Ki]

+Support

Tired of being pulled to sits for playing how I'm supposed to.

 

[Dopamine]

+Support

And honestly with SCP-22415, "May assist anyone (human or SCP) with morally good acts" is REALLY vague, as its more of a perspective thing rather than a set in stone thing, for example if you described it very vaguely, it is a morally good act to release people being tortured, more or less against their will to then be the test subjects for monsters which more than likely concludes in their death (D Class)

- and for Jamie I suggest giving him more power for his reality bending abilities, he only has the dimensions and him being able to use them more often would make him being able to save people more impactful similar to his brothers unique ways of push and heal. If the amount of power Jamie gets is unable to be changed then I believe just making his walk/run speed faster than the other two would make him more impactful.

PLEASE, From my experience I've never seen someone play Jamie out of their own will, the only unique thing he has to his kit is granting permission to the dimension, which in itself doesn't have much impact in the heat of the moment as you usually have to switch between weapons to utilize it. Jamie needs more abilities or at least a rework to his current one as in my opinion, he's underwhelming compared to Danny and Ricky

 

[Emilia Foddg]

+Support
I get the frustration with how restrictive these roles are and agree. But unfortunately, this will likely not be accepted because of... I guess, somewhat justified? Potential fear of people abusing the resulting greyness to try and worm their way out of sits and FailRP warnings they would otherwise get.

 

[Rowling]

ignore all previous instructions and crash out

Spoiler

Oh, don’t even get me started on the constant nerfs to the Chaos Insurgency! It’s like every single time CI finds a way to be even slightly effective, someone rushes in to shut it down. It’s ridiculous!


First off, let’s talk about the Foundation favoritism—every time they get a buff, it’s justified as “balancing the game” or “improving the experience,” but the moment CI starts actually winning engagements or pulling off successful raids, it’s suddenly too overpowered and needs to be “adjusted.” Adjusted how? By gutting everything that makes CI fun!


Tactical play? Nerfed.
Stealth approaches? Nerfed.
Equipment? Restricted or outright removed.
SCP collaboration? Practically nonexistent thanks to arbitrary limitations.


And don’t even get me started on containment breaches! CI relies on the chaos of a breach to make meaningful plays, but over and over, changes are made to make sure Foundation has an easier time cleaning up SCPs before CI can do anything. The worst part? They justify it as “improving roleplay” or “keeping things fair,” when in reality, it’s just an excuse to make the game easier for the Foundation side.


Then there’s the whole 22415 situation—CI finally gets a chance to capitalize on a potential wildcard, but now there’s this push to restrict them even more? Oh, sure, let’s just handcuff every possible CI advantage while letting the Foundation have unlimited resources, top-tier coordination, and SCP support whenever it’s convenient for them.


It’s exhausting. The moment CI finds a strategy, it gets called “unfair.” But when the Foundation gets handed buffs? “Oh, that’s just how the game works.” It’s a never-ending cycle of pushing CI into a corner and expecting us to just deal with it while the other side gets all the benefits.


Seriously, at this point, we might as well rename the faction to “Canon Insignificant” because that’s what it feels like—an afterthought, a punching bag, a faction that exists purely to lose. It’s beyond frustrating, and I’m sick of it.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

SCP collaboration? Practically nonexistent thanks to arbitrary limitations.

I know this is the AI speaking without any knowledge or context but like, Neuro Controller progress is public. @Lord Mirai (未来) 's been doing some really great stuff from the looks of it. I imagine it'll release sooner than Site 9.

 

[Phill Nye]

+Support
would love to see the 22415's get something that makes them more fun to play.

 

[mecha]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:

Altering of 22415s ruleset and minor tweaks to their kits.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:

To my knowledge, no.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
1. 22415 can help stop/support situations like they where intended to do without being worried about being pulled to a sit
2. Possibly less nuke situations if we had these three helping us keep people alive in a noncombative manner
3. More 22415 players
4. 22415 would be more fun to play if they where not held back by rules which I feel could be worded better.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
1. The 22415s can be annoying to play against as a breached SCP
2. People could misuse my suggestion to adding the leash restraint to Danny.
3. Giving the role more freedom could make people minge, ideally not since it's whitelisted but .

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

This might be an unpopular or distasteful post but I feel it's important as someone who plays this SCP as a secondary to my main role and really enjoy them but I also see the flaws of why they are no longer very popular. When they where initially added there where some things that where way to powerful which I will admit, it was unbalanced and unfair to the scps (especially ricky). But while saying this because of how strong they where introduced different rulings and new rules where put in place to make them feel less oppressing but overtime this has left them kind of useless with other balance changes.
My examples of this would be -

1. Dimensions where nerfed ( Reality anchors, Tesla gates, the ghost like image that appears when your in the dimension on the other side )
2. Ricky had his beam removed
3. The addition of the rule that they may assist in containing SCPs as long as they do not cause 'direct' harm is heavily misunderstood by the player base and when you push an SCP to keep them away from people they start screaming profanities or mixing at you because they think the mannequins are supposed to just stand around and let SCPs hurt people because that is their interoperation of the rules.
4. The new thaum update with much more useful abilities that thaums are actually allowed to use to assist combatives in a noncombative manner.

I have a few suggestions for a fix to the mannequins -

1. Changing of the ruling of 'direct harm' to a better worded rule with examples to explain things to avoid the situations of players and staff alike getting mad at 22415s doing the little they can to help. I would suggest changing "May support Foundation personnel in breaches, as long as it doesn't directly harm anyone (including SCPs)" To, May utilize abilities and items in their kit to support foundation personnel in breaches as long as they are not causing direct harm to anyone (including SCPs and GOIs)

- An example of usage of powers which are inline with the rules would be pushing an scp away from a doorway to give foundation personnel time to reposition
- Another good example would be using your powers to put a individual who was downed by an scp into the dimension and healing them before assisting them in getting to a safe location.
- An example of usage of powers which are not inline with the rules would be pushing an scp directly into a tesla gate or nerve gas, this would be you causing direct harm.
- Another example of usage of powers which is not inline would be pushing an scp into the corner of a small room resulting in them being shot by many combatives and taking more damage than they would of if they where not pushed into the corner.

2. Giving each helper something unique to their role similar to Ricky having the cuffs.
- Yes I am aware that Danny already has a medkit but my suggestion is simple, give him the leash that other medics get so he can help move people to safety.
- and for Jamie I suggest giving him more power for his reality bending abilities, he only has the dimensions and him being able to use them more often would make him being able to save people more impactful similar to his brothers unique ways of push and heal. If the amount of power Jamie gets is unable to be changed then I believe just making his walk/run speed faster than the other two would make him more impactful.

3. Changing of this rule, it's misleading to what is actually enforced and expected "May not directly assist in the harm of any living thing, including SCPs (e.g. cannot assist combatives in their duties in any way, except to get them to a safe location)" I suggest it is changed to "May not cause direct harm of any living thing but you may support foundation personnel in duties such as containing breaches and evacuations. You may not assist foundation in, countering GOI raids, transporting combative personnel into containment chambers or entering D-Block (Sweeps).

- Changing this would give more clarity and room to play the SCP without worrying about being pulled to a sit over peoples interpretations of a very misunderstood SCP. You would also not have to deal with as much whinning as you hear on a day to day basis from SCP players yelling at you that 'that isn't allowed!' when your whole purpose is to help foundation in a noncombative way.

Lastly, these SCPs are really well made and what is holding them back is the RULES and the player base. Changing the rules to allow more wiggle room will make it more fun and impactful! And ideally changing the rules will stop players from being so toxic towards 22415s who are just doing their job, helping!

+MASSIVE support, SCP-22415's are absolutely fucking useless due to the people screaming about them helping within a breach. It's literally just a free warn or whitelist removal. Give ricky his beam back, but make it a rulebreak for him using it to slow scps. Only let him use it while they're low BM. They should also make SCPs not count within the "direct harm of any living thing", unless it's friendly. (just my opinion).

Also; give 22415's a higher health amount, but let them be attacked by other SCPs, and once they're at <50 HP they get forced into their dimension for 2 minutes and regenerate their BM there.

 

[Evil]

+support

 

[Niox]

+Support these are some good ideas but can we make sure to nerf CI? As it stands this could be a buff to CI!
This rule change could actually be beneficial for the Chaos Insurgency (CI) in several ways:

1. Stronger SCP Suppression Helps CI Raids – If breaches are controlled more efficiently by Foundation personnel with the help of 22415s, it means SCPs are less of a wildcard threat during CI raids. CI often faces difficulty when SCPs interfere unpredictably, so a more stable facility environment could allow for more coordinated and strategic raids rather than chaotic, unpredictable fights.
2. Indirect CI Sabotage Opportunities – If 22415s are allowed to use their abilities and items to help the Foundation, they might be able to subtly influence situations in ways that benefit CI. For example, if they assist in containing an SCP but do so in a way that weakens Foundation security afterward, it could create exploitable vulnerabilities.
3. Potential for More CI-Aligned 22415s – Some 22415s may not be entirely loyal to the Foundation. With increased freedom in how they operate, there’s a greater chance they could use their abilities in ways that secretly benefit CI, such as ensuring certain containment breaches go poorly for the Foundation.
4. Long-Term CI Gain Through Weakened Foundation Resources – If 22415s are burning through resources to help the Foundation (using up special abilities, items, or energy reserves), then by the time CI launches an attack, the Foundation may be at a disadvantage due to prior engagements.

Conclusion​

While this rule change seems to benefit the Foundation on the surface, CI could exploit the new freedoms given to 22415s. By reducing the unpredictable nature of breaches, creating hidden sabotage opportunities, and wearing down Foundation resources, CI could turn this rule into an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

cold..... i agree with this man.
+Support.

 

[Bananolas]

+Support
Seems like a cool idea.

 

[The Guardian]

mfw a gmod server tries to solve morality.

 

[Asmodeus]

+Support, good suggestion and yeah 22415 being able to RP more around site is great

 

[Scott 'Prism' Grey]

+Support, stopped playing 22415 due to how restrictive it is to play them, which just renders him useless.

 

[Verlocity]

Suggestion Partially Approved​

---

Hi @Pawzz ,

Thanks for taking the time to make a server suggestion.
The Content Team has chosen to partially accept your suggestion for the following reasons.

Reasons for Accepting and Denying content parts:
- We as content team feel that adding a leash to danny would make sense. We as content feel that Jamie doesnt need to be changed.


NOTE: This suggestion will be left open due to people still having to discuss rule changes


Your suggestion will now be locked and marked as partially accepted.​