I’m going to be straight with you — brushing my points off as “pearl-clutching” or “guilt-tripping” isn’t an argument, it’s just you being dismissive.
Alright, I don't mind playing this game. Clearly you do not understand my stance here, so I will make you understand. I am not dismissing your argument - I am saying that it is downright abusive and manipulative to try and use children and mental health problems to try and morally beat me over the head because of
a game feature idea. You somehow act like being this aggressive and shaming about this and then getting the response you provoked makes you the victim. It does not. And I will thoroughly disassemble your point.
You can try to dress it up all you want, but the fact is suicide doesn’t belong in RP on this server, period. And no, comparing it to SCP’s existing themes doesn’t hold up. Horror, monsters, war, padded rooms in Medbay — those are fictional tropes.
So various things such as insane asylums, hallucinations, gaslighting, etc.
And actual war, are just fictional tropes??
I don't know if you know this, but we do have and have had members of the community that have either served, are planning to serve or are serving in the military. Now who's being dismissive? And you'd think, people who have potentially experienced themselves, potentially in close proximity to, or are either highly cognisant of, the various situations that come with armed service would have similar objections to such experiences, by your logic, apparently being belittled by the existing server environment.
Like, I'll cede this particular point if you also want to try and push for the position that there are other things this server emulates that are not appropriate and want those toned down (Good luck defending that position) - But for the time being, I find it particularly interesting how, by the reasoning you've so far provided, your projected moral standards of roleplay server content comes across as follows:
- The systematic mistreatment of death row inmates and their callous use as disposable test subjects for mostly unethical experiments: Perfectly fine
- Being a death row inmate who has committed reprehensible crimes to get to where they are (Which, may I add, is the intended starting point of the server), some of which get to co-operate with terrorists: Perfectly fine
- Being a worker at a paramilitary research facility and coming down with serious mental conditions such as schizophrenia: Perfectly fine
- Shady authority figures commanding their personal kill squads to kidnap, torture, and even in some cases, summarily execute people at the lower echelons of their own organisation: Perfectly fine
- Various situations involving the administration and/or imbibing of questionable chemicals/substances: Perfectly fine
- Being kidnapped by terrorists, as a researcher/office assistant/medical personnel at a paramilitary research facility: Perfectly fine
- Engaging in armed conflict with terrorists: Perfectly fine
- Being a literal terrorist: Perfectly fine
- Taking cyanide to die excruciatingly painfully to avoid torture at the hands of literal terrorists: Perfectly fine
- Situations that lead to shooting yourself in the head: Absolutely not okay, prevent under all circumstances
...Just what exactly do you think the server is? What do you think happens here? Why is this the line drawn, why is this what you're putting on a pedestal and saying is not allowed to be touched? And also by your given logic, exposing people to these kinds of things would encourage them to undertake these acts IRL. We're approaching shit like the satanic panic and the "videogames cause violence"-style arguments all over again. That's the rhetoric here. It's exactly the same style of argumentation, "there shouldn't be access to this thing because it will encourage this" founded on the belief that people will always mimic the things they see in fiction.
Nobody here is walking away from the server having to deal with an actual monster breaking into their house or being part of a war. Suicide, on the other hand, is painfully real. People in this community have dealt with it, lost friends, lost family, and struggled themselves. Acting like it’s the same category as “sci-fi horror” is just wrong.
This is a terrible misrepresentation of my argument (Also, because of what I said above, some people
are actually walking away from the server being part of a war, so). You're trying to make out like I'm placing real-world suicide in the same category as sci-fi horror. That is very clearly not my intention and not at all what I am saying - And you continue to push it like I'm trying to encourage real-world suicide here.
You said my argument about kids and mental health doesn’t matter because of the server’s existing dark themes.
I didn't say it doesn't matter. I was more getting at that it's a ridiculous argument to make and
in part because of all the presently existing themes on the server, which deal with just as serious, if not even more serious and sensitive topics. Especially depending on the individual, as different people have different experiences, which then means that different points hurt more for some than others.
But here’s the difference: kids or vulnerable players might see combat, might see monsters, and they know it’s fiction. Suicide roleplay, though? That’s not just “dark fiction.” That’s something they might already be thinking about in their own lives. That’s where the harm is. It normalizes something that shouldn’t ever be normalized, and it risks pushing people who are already struggling further down a dangerous path.
This logic is where the pearl-clutching and guilt-tripping is. I hate this whole normalisation argument for things like this and it's a massive pet peeve of mine when the idea of exploring anything in situations even remotely unsavoury is brought up and it gets dismissed with "well that normalises such and such." There
are situations where this applies, this is not one of them. Even disregarding the fantastical elements, a lot of what happens on the server is not 'normal,' again, refer to the list of various situations and things that already happen on the server that I wrote above.
You can’t hand-wave that away with “well SCP is dark anyway.”
Again, not my full reasoning and you seem to be under the impression that that was my only reason for pushing back against this. In truth, I really just wanted you to realise what you were saying was terrible and stop before you put yourself in an even worse position, but you seem intent on waving the red flag, so charge at you I will.
And the idea that I’m just using “real-world issues” as some excuse to block features is honestly insulting. I’m not standing on a soapbox to look noble, I’m speaking from lived experience. I’ve lost a friend. I’ve seen family members fight through mental health struggles. I don’t need to justify why I take this topic seriously — I already know what it feels like to deal with the aftermath. You can call it whatever you want, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend suicide is just another edgy storyline to add for flavor.
I'm sorry that you've experienced that. I've experienced and am experiencing some similar things myself. What you should be insulted by here (and a good portion of the reason why I personally am so inconsolably infuriated by the way with which you have approached this) is the fact that, again, you are using that experience to try and justify gatekeeping a video game mechanic suggestion. That's not to say there aren't things that are absolutely problematic real-world experiences which should not be replicated on an RP server (because apparently this is not a given and I have to say this, otherwise I am implying that every experienceable atrocity in human life is fair game, by omission of the line entirely because nobody for whatever reason is not of a charitable enough mind and instead just interprets what the other person is saying in the worst possible light, and everyone is just vehemently angry monkeys on typewriters that just don't think about anything, while I right now, am just absolutely incensed with the incredibly shallow reasoning with which you have pushed your argument) - But for something like this, to say that you can't do this one thing because it deals with a sensitive topic, is just as disrespectful to the subject matter, as you claim the idea of the mechanic itself is.
From what I am seeing, you have so far holistically presented the subject matter as this kind of sacred cow which must not be touched for any reason. Which leads, in part, to -
Also, calling my stance “disgusting behavior”? That’s crossing a line. I’m not attacking anyone personally, I’m saying suicide RP is harmful and shouldn’t be allowed. Meanwhile, you’re dismissing people who’ve actually lived through this stuff as if we’re just making things up to score points.
If you can’t see why that’s a problem, then maybe you should stop for a second and think about who exactly you’re talking down to.
You have been trying to shame me by making out that I am belittling and dramatizing suicide into something less serious than what it actually is. That is a personal attack. That is a big part of why I made that comment. I'm saying that this could be an interesting feature if implementable and handled correctly. Then you come in with this, and wonder where this animosity has suddenly come from. Like, sure, with only that context, the amount of sheer vitriol I am exuding here still doesn't make a bit of sense, until you realise that this is the exact same kind of logic behind the disastrous enforcement of the Online """""Safety""""" Act 2023, which is what I was referencing at the end there and something I feel massively about.
Yes, weird sore point to have, here's the thing: When you feel totally helpless and powerless when it comes to complete idiots wading into your space, trying to do things that didn't need to be done and were in fact told numerous times over the years by so, very many experts in the field, but do it anyway, just making everything worse and actively making your whole life worse, ESPECIALLY when there are FAR BETTER ways to do things like that, the
last thing you need is someone else waltzing into your life and trying to attack you with the same logic. But of course, you dismiss someone actually living through this, as if I'm just out to encourage suicide. If you can't see why this is a problem, then maybe you should stop and think about what it is you're actually saying.
I'm not "talking down" to you. I'm pushing back against abusive rhetoric and you are talking back down to me. But since you've so cordially invited me to a game of "Who Has The Bigger Stick," then by all means, do try and continue to press this weird moral high ground (which you absolutely do not have, especially when you are trying to make some of my own arguments for me) against a diagnosed mentally disabled transgender woman, and see how that plays out. I don't really like pulling this card, but I told you that I don't mind playing this game, so play this game I shall.
Look, I’m not asking for SCP to become a PG-13 safe zone. I get what the universe is — horror, experimentation, violence, all of that. I’m fine with those things being part of the game. What I’m saying is suicide is different. It’s real. It’s close to home. And for a lot of people, it’s a wound that doesn’t heal. Roleplaying it doesn’t add anything except shock value at someone else’s expense. If you want to push boundaries in roleplay, there are a hundred other ways to do it that don’t risk reopening those wounds for people in this community.
So yeah, I’m standing by what I said: Suicide RP is not only inappropriate, it’s dangerous. You can try to frame my stance as pearl-clutching or guilt-tripping all day long, but at the end of the day, you’re just dodging the fact that some things don’t belong in a roleplay server. This is one of them.
I acknowledge that there is the shock value point, but saying there's nothing but that is just massively ignorant. But here's the crazy part about all of this - You have the choice to participate. This was explained perfectly earlier in the thread!:
Someone that's proficient with roleplaying using the aforementioned theme either as part of character lore, motivation, reasoning, etc etc, that's great! Alongside this, if these themes are present during an event or a proper roleplay, anyone that has a problem with it can just say "OK, I don't like this, I'd like to back out from this."
I am not suggesting to force people to participate. If people try to force anything on you, that's what Staff are for. Even if say, you're kidnapped by CI, they can't force you into torture RP if you OOCly do not consent and if they try, you call a sit. Same logic applies here. I don't see why the sole possibility of it happening with this mechanic justifies not doing it. I can see it in tandem with other issues like the effort it would take to implement it. I'll add that to the OP, too.
And even then! Even then, in these circumstances, you have another option: Join GOC! GOC have this wonderful thing called the Fivefold Mission. The First Mission basically makes this a non-option for them and you would pretty much never encounter anyone in GOC pulling this unless they're FailRPing. I suppose there's the issue of running into civs that could try it but, the whole thing about consent still applies here. And the First Mission means that GOC would have a responsibility to prevent civilian suicides! Admittedly, I'm also not sure how you could make good RP out of this? I am of course, a model individual even it comes to things like RP and event material - It would have to be handled delicately and sensibly.
And if you can't join GOC yet - ...Play more passive jobs that are not gonna be involved in these kinds of situations. GenSec's out, Medical's out, ISD's out, RSD maaaybe? Maybe if you just do stuff with SCPs less likely to result in that kinda stuff, as well as stuff with chems, etc. There's options and there's a whole community you can rely on, that can help you pursue those options. Another part about the high barrier to entry for GOC is that you'd also be less likely to encounter this as generally people who have worked up that kind of thing actually respect things like consent and such with little mingery.
You have a choice and that's okay. What's not okay, is attempting to make that choice for other people. By trying to gatekeep this in this way, trying to very brutishly bulldoze into the position, saying that this has no place in roleplay and say that this is disrespectful, uncaring or inappropriate and attempt to shame us for being interested in it, you are essentially making everyone else's choices for them and telling them that this shouldn't be pursued. Thankfully for the rest of us, that final decision is up to Content - But this sort of thing is what I'm talking about when I'm talking about doing this behind your given reasoning of children's safety and mental health advocacy. It rings EXTREMELY hollow to me and makes my blood boil beyond all reason.
You are the one opening wounds with this line of attack. And the fact that you do this with zero self-awareness is just so deeply offensive and horrendously distasteful to me. Maybe this server just isn't for you. For your efforts, I award you the classic 4chan Badge of Honour. Wear it with pride:
Donator
Senior Administrator
SCP-RP Staff
Event Team
Group Moderator
