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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Create a new variant of Spy Cards specifically for CI DCs and CI DCs only, that allows them to disguise as specific humanoid SCPs, e.g. TGs, 049, 076, 106, 323, 427-2, 7722, 8837 - Specifically not 073 or 8854, for reasons I elaborate on later, but generally the idea is that they'd be able to disguise as certain SCPs that it would make reasonable sense for a DC to be able to disguise themselves as.I will state for clarity that this would only allow for disguising as the specific humanoid SCPs and confer no other changes than appearance.
EDIT: I will additionally clarify that this is not intended as being in addition to CI DC's current Spy Card (As this would allow them to effectively have two different disguises) - My intent is to give them one disguise card that can disguise as other factions and these specific SCPs alike (In the case where the SCP in question is someone flagged on, on a CI character - It wouldn't work. Because it's a Spy Card). The idea is to have the choice between whatever player on an F job you want to disguise as, and... One of the listed SCPs. One or the other.
Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I would be beyond surprised if giving anyone the ability to disguise as SCPs in any capacity has been suggested before. Maybe from 914. That'd be fun.Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Purely RP-based change that has zero combative benefits whatsoever. This would actually be a hindrance to combat in most conventional respects.
- Adds potential tension to and/or an interesting RP pathway following SCP negotiations.
- More fun, interesting & ultimately (hopefully) harmless things to do on the server.
- May have potential Event uses, although GMObj/PAC can reasonably serve this purpose in most situations.
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- May be more effort implementing this than is worth, Dev time-wise.
- Becomes practically useless once people adopt the habit of using left-click to check for SCP bodymass (Although this may be metagaming? Impossible to enforce, however - Could contextualise it as the SCP Disguise itself being not good enough).
- """""""Not needed"""""""
- Could potentially be considered as an unnecessary, slight buff-ish to CI in some respects.
Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
First, I'll get the 073 thing out of the way - 073's whole thing is you can't attack him or you take damage. So being able to disguise as 073 has a very obvious combative advantage where people will be hesitant to shoot a disguised DC for fear of 073's effect (and vice versa, shooting at the actual 073 thinking it's a disguised CI), which I agree should not be abusable - This could create confusion between disguised DCs and the actual 073 as 073 is allowed to roam mostly everywhere anyway, which would not be desired, as the 073 job already has unfortunately astronomically low reputation from what is perceived as typical player behaviour on the job.I will also address the potential problem of allowing 323 to be disguised as, as even though the example I outline later holds true, there is still the issue of the fact that 323 is not normally allowed in the site - So if a CI DC disguises as it and then jumps into vents, it will most likely cause confusion and erroneous sits to be called on an SCP that is not violating rules, but is perceived as doing so because "they have been seen onsite," by someone who's looking at a disguised CI DC. Conversely, this can cause confusion the other way if 323 enters, but are perceived as a disguised CI DC and thus they wouldn't be removed/warned for breaking the rules: Under these circumstances, I would not mind either of the following -
- The simplest and easiest solution, not allowing CI DCs to disguise as 323 - Which prevents any confusion if it can't happen.
- Rule adjustments that prohibit CI DCs infilling site disguised as 323 - Which may still cause confusion/issues, but would allow for more hijinks to occur as I later outline.
Now this idea overall sounds incredibly stupid and I can already hear the denial being written, but I'd like you to hear me out on this one. I think that if CI DCs are able to get access to SCPs, then they should be allowed to disguise as them. I will present my case as follows:
First, why CI DC exclusively? Because when considering the idea of "allowing SCP disguises" in isolation, none of the F jobs make sense for it, outside of the sole RP scenario that F could (and reasonably would) try to scam another faction by trading "an SCP" to them - But all of the other potential situations that could arise from allowing this are just... Mostly FailRP, really (i.e. DEA agent disguises as 106, walks into D-Block, causes chaos - Even the example makes no sense if you think of it in the sense of "F tries to scam another faction by trading an O5 disguised as an SCP to them." (However, this would be extremely funny.)).
The same applies to GOC, but even the example doesn't work, because it could potentially be considered a First Mission violation.
For CI, things make a lot more sense. It would be extremely risky for a CI DC to disguise as an SCP to try to do... Whatever it is they even want to do, in the site? While disguised as an SCP? Yes, there's not a lot of reasons as to why you would want to do it, but I don't necessarily think that in itself should stop them from being allowed, nonetheless. I discredited it for other factions because I can easily think of ways this could be harmful, however if a CI DC tried to do it, they would be disrupting Site operations in a way that would make sense for CI to do, at the expense of... You know, dying (CI DC walks into D-Block disguised as 049, causes chaos but immediately dies. A good time was had by all, many highlight submissions as a result).
In my opinion, for CI DCs, this is equal levels of harmless and balanced. I think I've plainly demonstrated why they should be allowed to do this if reasonably possible. Here are a couple examples of scenarios that could happen if CI DCs were allowed to disguise as select humanoid SCPs:
A CI DC, trying to evade capture, ducks into 049's CC and disguises as 049. When E-11 investigate, they are perplexed to find 2 049s.
This prompts RSD to send researchers down to run tests with the 2 049s. This ends in many ways, but unless the CI DC is extremely convincing and/or lucky, it generally doesn't end well for them.
This prompts RSD to send researchers down to run tests with the 2 049s. This ends in many ways, but unless the CI DC is extremely convincing and/or lucky, it generally doesn't end well for them.
CI have captured 8837 and are negotiating with them for its return. In a stunning fit of ingenuity, they have the DC disguise as 8837 and cuff them, to take to the exchange, trying to pass them off as the SCP and scam F out of money.
This will work exactly one time total - CI trade off their disguised DC to F, who take it back to containment, and are confused at why there was no recontainment announcement and that 8837's containment box still shows it as breached. They then realise it's a disguised DC, kill them and then prep a raid against CI for the SCP back. When F raid to get 8837 back, they find 3 of him, sitting in CI HCZ, cuffed. They then just shoot at the three cuffed 8837s until two of them die (or use grenades) and retrieve 8837.
All future negotiations are preceded by a Nu7 marksman/DEA Special Agent being dispatched ahead of time to covertly "assassinate" the SCP beforehand to verify that it's not a CI DC.
This strategy does not become more viable (for CI) with terminable SCPs, as all SCPs in cuffs become invincible, meaning that this same scenario could feasibly play out with any other humanoid SCP that a CI DC could disguise as, in place of 8837.
This will work exactly one time total - CI trade off their disguised DC to F, who take it back to containment, and are confused at why there was no recontainment announcement and that 8837's containment box still shows it as breached. They then realise it's a disguised DC, kill them and then prep a raid against CI for the SCP back. When F raid to get 8837 back, they find 3 of him, sitting in CI HCZ, cuffed. They then just shoot at the three cuffed 8837s until two of them die (or use grenades) and retrieve 8837.
All future negotiations are preceded by a Nu7 marksman/DEA Special Agent being dispatched ahead of time to covertly "assassinate" the SCP beforehand to verify that it's not a CI DC.
This strategy does not become more viable (for CI) with terminable SCPs, as all SCPs in cuffs become invincible, meaning that this same scenario could feasibly play out with any other humanoid SCP that a CI DC could disguise as, in place of 8837.
GOC, in the interest of maintaining good relations, begrudgingly trade the 323 they've captured (but would rather have preferred to ADB) to F. CI have been following the situation and want 323 - They also happen to be in a good position to be able to raid (Are off all raid cooldowns).
CI then launch a raid with the intent of intercepting 323, including a CI DC. The purpose of the DC is to join the fray, then when they're alone with the SCP, disguise as it and stick behind with a decoy team, while another team extracts 323. The decoy team feigns difficulty trying to extract "323" and end up engaging in another firefight against F, while the extraction team have the actual 323, RTBing with it without issue. The decoy team act like they are losing ground and attempt to RTB without "323".
Providing the fake 323 hasn't been killed during the fight (Although that would still be both very funny and beneficial for CI at the same time - If the CI DC does die during the fight, they should just not respawn for as long as reasonably possible, to just confuse F when they see the dead 323), F then resume what they were doing with the fake 323, while CI gets to sample 323 at their own base with impunity, out of F's crosshairs for now (Although without any changes to sampling restrictions, CI would still be limited by them - Potentially consider an addition to the sampling rule of some kind of permissive bypass for situations like this, where SL+ can reasonably auth sampling past the limit to an extent, in the interest of encouraging inventive strategies? Unsure). At least until F realise that the 323 they have is actually a disguised CI DC, which shouldn't take all that long.
Take into account that this would probably be considered both an MR and a DC at the same time, at least if my understanding of the rules on this work.
And obviously, if it's decided that 323 is not eligible for CI DC disguise (which is understandable), then the only real incentive to do this would be with an SCP that a CI DC can disguise as, that can be sampled for something desirable. Which would leave only 7722 once it gets its chem
CI then launch a raid with the intent of intercepting 323, including a CI DC. The purpose of the DC is to join the fray, then when they're alone with the SCP, disguise as it and stick behind with a decoy team, while another team extracts 323. The decoy team feigns difficulty trying to extract "323" and end up engaging in another firefight against F, while the extraction team have the actual 323, RTBing with it without issue. The decoy team act like they are losing ground and attempt to RTB without "323".
Providing the fake 323 hasn't been killed during the fight (Although that would still be both very funny and beneficial for CI at the same time - If the CI DC does die during the fight, they should just not respawn for as long as reasonably possible, to just confuse F when they see the dead 323), F then resume what they were doing with the fake 323, while CI gets to sample 323 at their own base with impunity, out of F's crosshairs for now (Although without any changes to sampling restrictions, CI would still be limited by them - Potentially consider an addition to the sampling rule of some kind of permissive bypass for situations like this, where SL+ can reasonably auth sampling past the limit to an extent, in the interest of encouraging inventive strategies? Unsure). At least until F realise that the 323 they have is actually a disguised CI DC, which shouldn't take all that long.
Take into account that this would probably be considered both an MR and a DC at the same time, at least if my understanding of the rules on this work.
And obviously, if it's decided that 323 is not eligible for CI DC disguise (which is understandable), then the only real incentive to do this would be with an SCP that a CI DC can disguise as, that can be sampled for something desirable. Which would leave only 7722 once it gets its chem
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