Denied Assistant Change in the Chain of Command

[Claire!]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This would change
O5/Ethics Assistants (when not under direct orders from O5/Ethics)
in the Rules of the Chain of Command from being higher than MTF CO, and what not to be placed under
Executive Researchers | Medical Consultants | Ambassadors | Special Agents | Security Captains | MTF Commissioned Officers
This is because Assistants sometimes abuse their powers, while yes an O5/EC can deal with it, so it makes no sense why an MTF CO is lower than an assistant when not under orders

I would be fine if it's changed so MTF CO Is higher than Assistant, and Assistant is higher than Consultant and what not. Either or works

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
Fewer Assistants abusing powers
Gives a point to being promoted to MTF CO rather than having an assistant order you around



Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
I'm not entirely sure, I would think Assistant not having much else to do, and not being a stepping stone to get into SA.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
As Noticed, some ECAs/OSAs ( at least in the US) abuse there chain of command positions at times. It also adds a reason to go for MTF CO rather than becoming an assistant, be an assistant for awhile, and become SA. While assistant helps it adds a change to the chain of command

 

[Dinklesprinkle]

ngl i didnt expect to see that this would be a nerf suggestion i expected the usual "wehwehweh we arent cool enough make us cooler" shit u usually get with role suggestions lmao

 

[Skittles]

+Support

 

[Richter "Blade"]

+support
Assistants should simply be there to be extra assistance to MTF CO's from a non combative POV and should leave MTF's to their own Jurisdiction. Just like its been stated above, Assistants are JR CL4's and should be treated as such by Senior CL4's

 

[Darren]

+support

 

[Helios]

+1

There is no reason why assistants should be above COs

 

[Asp]

+support
someones gotta put these assistants in their place

 

[Broda]

- Support
This seems like a US Problem. We've had no issues on UK reported to either branch of Site Command about Assistant behaviour. Historically, if there has been issues, we've dealt with it. The reason these Assistants are high above in the chain of command is due to the sensitive and secretive information they are exposed to on a daily basis. Assistants require this position in the hierarchy to conduct their duties. If you have Assistant's abusing their power, you need to take this to their relevant Site Command branch, not a forum suggestion.

 

[Claire!]

- Support
This seems like a US Problem. We've had no issues on UK reported to either branch of Site Command about Assistant behaviour. Historically, if there has been issues, we've dealt with it. The reason these Assistants are high above in the chain of command is due to the sensitive and secretive information they are exposed to on a daily basis. Assistants require this position in the hierarchy to conduct their duties. If you have Assistant's abusing their power, you need to take this to their relevant Site Command branch, not a forum suggestion.

No offense Broda but this point you brought up doesn't make any sense, but they can still do their normal duties even if they're not high in the hierarchy. They shouldn't be as high as an MTF CO whos a promotion rather than a assistant whos maybe been a CL3 getting the job and instantly getting a higher hierarchy the MTF CO

 

[Scopes]

+ / - Support

As a person who has been Site Command & Assisted Site Command (Ethics Member & Ethics Assistant 1-2 months) & Overseer Assistant for 5 months I'm going to leave my opinions and idea here. While I do agree that yes MTF CO+ should be able to have orders around assistants (And they do that) I believe assistants also have that command structure since they work with site command. You're assisting Site Command in certain operations or orders and you follow their lead without any questions asked (Unless that site command is breaking a rule which in you wouldn't follow.) Now I see the problem that people complain about power but that can easily be arranged by reporting it to Site Command (O5 if OA & EC if ECA) they can easily be strike if seen abusing power.

Now I have this other view that people do not like assistants just because that they are a useless job and they power trip which quite frankly pisses me off and other people too because I believe assistants are a huge help within the foundation and command structure. When under orders it makes sense that the department they are having orders under or overseeing (Either be OA or ECA) would have control. Now I'm not saying that assistants use their full control to manipulate or change policies within that department but more of a commanding role structure.

It's the same argument such as GENSEC has final say in D-block, Medical has final say in medbay, E-11 have final say in HCZ, IA have final say in arrests, DEA & Nu-7 have final say in surface operations & Site Command have final say over certain policies. (Unless override by SL+)

I'd also like to say that assistant is application based and picked by EC / O5 votes. MTF however is rank up by promotion and doing your job. There is a big difference in authority and how it works however I know that it shouldn't overide.

(What i'm arguing here is that MTF CO+ are Senior CL4 while it's a promotion based. While Assistants are **APPLICATION** Based and they are seen as Junior CL4, Yet you work with Site Command. It makes no sense.)

Overall I'm leaving a neutral. I don't agree nor do I disagree I'm more of a middle standpoint and a bystander. However this is my whole experience and how assistants are treated are quite horrible and I wish it was better as we do a lot for the foundation but it's not seen since our operations are in the dark (Since I work with O5.)

- Overseer Assistant "Akavir"

 

[Broda]

No offense Broda but this point you brought up doesn't make any sense, but they can still do their normal duties even if they're not high in the hierarchy. They shouldn't be as high as an MTF CO whos a promotion rather than a assistant whos maybe been a CL3 getting the job and instantly getting a higher hierarchy the MTF CO

Its up to the judgement of the relevant Site Command to select these players based on their competency. You never had an issue with this when you were an Assistant.

 

[Claire!]

Its up to the judgement of the relevant Site Command to select these players based on their competency. You never had an issue with this when you were an Assistant.

My point still stands. A position that is picked that is a Junior CL4, shouldn't be higher then a Sr. CL4

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

+support pen pusher shouldn't be above a hardened war veteran during a breach that they have no experience in, at the very least they should be on the same level but have no authority during a breach

 

[Starling6]

+support pen pusher shouldn't be above a hardened war veteran during a breach that they have no experience in, at the very least they should be on the same level but have no authority during a breach

+Support

Who would win, a 10 year veteran of a MTF , or one paper pusher

 

['Athena']

- Huge Support
I think there is a lack of understanding when it comes to the duties of an ECA, and why this is necessary. An ECA/OSA is a representative of their respective council, and so- their position is more than reasoned in that regard. Next, it would remove ECA's abilities to perform arrests on those CL4 personnel, and practically restrict it to only CL5s or the DoIA themselves which to be quite frank, is stupid. This also seems to be a US issue as Broda mentioned prior, as in the UK server at least we manage our ECAs/OSAs in a way that any abuse of power is dealt with. Likely what you need here is a complaint regarding whichever ECA/OSA did any sort of wrongdoing.

The positioning makes sense, and I can only see your reasoning: "Well, they apply not grind." This is a massive misconception, those who apply have likely worked in non-combative roles, where unless they go for SC/SA this is the maximum they can bring themselves to, and this suggestion entirely demeans the efforts that ECA/OSAs put in, as something I don't think that is being recognised: in order to obtain such a position, a massive amount of effort needs to be put in on alternative roles.

Take this as you will, but I think it would be an absolute shame if ECAs/OSAs who spend hours making applications, working on IA or even their combative grind are declined the right to perform their duties in their role and suggest that any of the ECAs/OSAs that have sparked your decision to make this are reported to their respective SC if they're abusing power. As you have also stated that it'll prevent an abuse of power, yet lack any supplementary evidence to this.

 

["Aki"]

-Support

Athena and Broda Pretty much explained it perfectly, It's an Application, MTF CO is a Promotion.


In UK If a ECA/OSA Tell's a MTF CO to do something, its mostly the same thing, Are you Under Site command Orders,
No = fuck off I don't take orders from you.
Yes = Sure, what do you need?

 

[Otters]

-Support
This just doesn't make sense. If Assistant's were to be placed below MTF CO's, that also means that a Security Captain, Medical Consultant, IA Ambassador, DEA Special Agent and Execs are above an Assistant. Also, this still wouldn't solve the problem of "abusive Assistants", due to the fact that they can lie that they have been ordered by Site Command to conduct said duty that they are trying to do. Never seen any problems on UK regarding this.

 

[J. 'Eidolon' Shekelstein]

-Support
When I give directives to Assistants I require them to have the elevated station in the Chain of Command so that I can be confident that other staff on-site do not interfere with my directives. It makes sense in both lore and RP that an assistant to a CL5 office would have a higher station than other CL4s.

Any issues with assistants mingeing or abusing their power can be solved by removing them and raising the standards of assistant applications and IG conduct.

 

[Claire!]

-Support
When I give directives to Assistants I require them to have the elevated station in the Chain of Command so that I can be confident that other staff on-site do not interfere with my directives. It makes sense in both lore and RP that an assistant to a CL5 office would have a higher station than other CL4s.

Any issues with assistants mingeing or abusing their power can be solved by removing them and raising the standards of assistant applications and IG conduct.

If you are ordering them they are still higher. This is just when theee not under orders.

 

[Claire!]

-Support
This just doesn't make sense. If Assistant's were to be placed below MTF CO's, that also means that a Security Captain, Medical Consultant, IA Ambassador, DEA Special Agent and Execs are above an Assistant. Also, this still wouldn't solve the problem of "abusive Assistants", due to the fact that they can lie that they have been ordered by Site Command to conduct said duty that they are trying to do. Never seen any problems on UK regarding this.

Like said my suggestion, make MTF COs where agency managers are at/higher then a assistant, but along side being higher then special agent etc.

 

[Gizzmo]

+support
This is the easiest thing to accept. It literally requires nothing but editing a form post and there is a majority supports.