Denied Ban Generative Content from the server

[BanishedDemoness]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This suggestion bans all generative AI content from use in game ie text and images. This does not ban things such as spell checkers as those do not use generative content
Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I do not belive so.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
As an RP server we should be pushing for creativity and high quality content from the player base. AI stands antithetical to that. It creates slop and involves no player effort. Both on the UK and US AI slop has been an rampant issue, depreciating both the role-playing from players and wasting the time of those who have to review the content. Its plagiarism as well, the content is stolen work, not licensed in any sort of way. If we want to promote high quality rp AI cannot be allowed.
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
There is no way in which generative content is good for the server, it just makes low effort slop.
There may be an argument that this should be an IC thing, but I disagree. It should not be accepted to post slop and just if caught have IC punishment, it affect server health and should be thus dealt with ooc.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I think it would be absurd to continue to allow generative content on the server. I think it's important to value the effort players make. I think as a server we should not allow plagiarized work. I think we should not allow Department leadership to be plagued and their time wasted with slop. I don't think players who don't care to put in effort should be rewarded for their use of generative AI.

 

[DaveDogs]

Hi

I appreciate your concern for the creative spirit and the fact AI is not liked a lot, however I do have to ask;

1. How do you expect staff to even enforce this in all areas
2. For departments wanting artwork, unfortunatly there are lots of people who will only do things for their department, so if a department has no creatives, how do you want that department to go forward?

A key thing to note at least on the image front, is that Staff SHOULD be checking the quality of the images they are sticking up on decals and ensuring it; A. Looks good, B. Isn't full of spelling issues if there's text and C. Fits the theme

However I am not as ignorant to say that things dont slip through the cracks, and if I see them when im on, I usually remove them or contact the maker and ask them to fix it.

Edit: Furthermore, one has to ask, who is to say that the use of generative AI isn't creative, as the creation of the idea alone is the use of a creative function, just minus the skill to make it a reality, I do have to throw that little ethical ball out there per the meaning of the word "Creativity"



Kind Regards
Yeke

Aint my suggestion but I'd like to respond.

Good evening/morning Yeke,

First and foremost thank you for your response, it's clear that you're putting genuine consideration to this suggestion, and I appreciate it. I'm no longer as active on SCP-RP for many reasons but il introduce myself promptly. I'm Dave, and it's a pleasure to discuss this with you.

In response to your points:

1. Enforcement

I agree with you, it would be incredibly difficult for your staff team to enforce a creative standard across Civil Networks. That being said the goal would not be perfect enforcement, but to establish a cultural normality that puts value on original work. I believe clear guidelines alongside this valuing of original works would go a long way. Even if some pieces fall through the cracks (it will happen) it would be more about setting the tone, rather than starting a witch hunt over every case.

2. Departments without creatives

This is a challenging one, and a very fair point. However this could also be a chance to foster Departmental collabration. You could also encourage cross-department requests to futher foster this with incentives. Its not ideal of course but relying on AI as a fallback could risk starting a culture where human artists are Bypassed completely in favor of speed, and convenience. starting templates, mentorship or even having a group of volunteer artists collaborate could help bridge that gap without using AI.

-Regarding your staff's image quality standards. Couldn't agree more, and I'm happy that it's being upheld.

-With your ethical point, it's a strong philosophic argument, and one I've had with fellow artists and Ai enthusiasts before. Yes, generating art with prompts and guidelines Is a creative act. However there is a distinction between Creative direction and Creative Execution. its not that people who use AI arent creative, it's that over reliance on AI over time can diminish the value we place in the skill and time it takes to bring an idea to life manually. Creativity isn't just the concept but the actual craft and expression. This craft and expression is what we as human artists bring to a community, and it's 100% worth protecting.

Overrall for me it's not about banning AI or saying it's useless. It's about ensuring artists aren't marginalized in a space where they should be celebrated. SCP is responsible for fostering the creativity of countless people. A balance can be struck but care should be taken to ensure that "accessibility" doesn't devalue human creative labor

Thank you for your time,
Dave.

 

[Kito]

Easy +Support.

As someone who's made a number of logos and videos for the server, having generative AI posters makes my creativity and work feel unappreciated and un-important.

On Yeke's comment, its easily enforceable. Ask if the art is AI generated, deny any art that uses generative AI, and inspect the photo prior to it's use.

If a Department is lacking 'creatives', then the department should work on attracting people of that caliber. My work was vastly under appreciated for a number of things, which made me leave certain departments and join others. Good examples include DEA, as I made several documents for them, all of which were denied, ignored, or 'put on the backburner', which made me join Nu-7, who's CO team appreciated such work much more.

If a Department wants something creative made, then they should attract those kinds of people and encourage those within their department to be creative, not use generative AI to replace them.

Overall, generative AI discourages players from being creative, making their own content, or trying to make an environment within their specific department that encourages creativity.

Its a poor judgement call to allow generative AI in any media of which replaces creativity or artistry, and I think anyone should heavily reconsider using it in this context.

 

[Broda]

If a Department is lacking 'creatives', then the department should work on attracting people of that caliber. My work was vastly under appreciated for a number of things, which made me leave certain departments and join others. Good examples include DEA, as I made several documents for them, all of which were denied, ignored, or 'put on the backburner', which made me join Nu-7, who's CO team appreciated such work much more.

If a Department wants something creative made, then they should attract those kinds of people and encourage those within their department to be creative, not use generative AI to replace them.

Holy ego batman!

AI makes art accessible for everyone, not just the talented few. I for one as ECC will not waste my time trying to attract artistically talented individuals on a server to only fuel their creative ego. I do not have a lick of artistic talent and the accessibility for someone like myself to use AI to help me create an image of something is invaluable for me.

Whilst I do appreciate artists feeling threatened by AI with the work, you will never beat the impending future ahead of you. If an image developed by AI looks shit, then it looks shit and SL shouldn't put it up on a poster anywhere. I really don't get this argument, do SL not look over the posters quality or...?

 

[Zen]

Holy ego batman!

AI makes art accessible for everyone, not just the talented few. I for one as ECC will not waste my time trying to attract artistically talented individuals on a server to only fuel their creative ego. I do not have a lick of artistic talent and the accessibility for someone like myself to use AI to help me create an image of something is invaluable for me.

Whilst I do appreciate artists feeling threatened by AI with the work, you will never beat the impending future ahead of you. If an image developed by AI looks shit, then it looks shit and SL shouldn't put it up on a poster anywhere. I really don't get this argument, do SL not look over the posters quality or...?

It really depends on the SL. A while back I had one SL claim that map devs needed to approve decals (???), and then later another SL rejected a poster because it didn't look weathered or whatever. Then I go around and see shit like Broken Masquerade art that doesn't make any sense and was probably outright FailRP to have, AI art that looks just bad, and a poster saying that Site Admin were forklift certified or some shit.

 

[DaveDogs]

Holy ego batman!

AI makes art accessible for everyone, not just the talented few. I for one as ECC will not waste my time trying to attract artistically talented individuals on a server to only fuel their creative ego. I do not have a lick of artistic talent and the accessibility for someone like myself to use AI to help me create an image of something is invaluable for me.

Whilst I do appreciate artists feeling threatened by AI with the work, you will never beat the impending future ahead of you. If an image developed by AI looks shit, then it looks shit and SL shouldn't put it up on a poster anywhere. I really don't get this argument, do SL not look over the posters quality or...?

Accesibility is a good thing, but take care not to confuse it with equivilance. AI created content should not hold more value than original creative works. AI does not invent new art styles, its trained on original human artwork.

Your claim about fueling creative egos gives less of a practical vibe and moreso a dismissal of the time and effort required by artists to hone their skillsets.

My concern isn't that AI is being used, it's moreso the cultural shift of civil networks when AI is valued over human art because of convenience and it being "good enough".

The future will undoubtedly become AI assisted, but devauling human creativity along the way is not the way to go.

 

[Kito]

Generative AI removes the human element of creativity in a medium that is entirely made by human creativity.


Yeke quoted creativity's noun, which directly states that you have to make it yourself, or "to create something". The official SCP wikidot has already banned generative AI in most aspects of actual writing and content creation, including voice acting, but not for other things like spell checking, fractal generation, etc.


There's a stark contrast between original work with the assistance of an AI, and generative AI directed to do something, and accepting generative AI into the server is a very bad idea, making those who actually have to work to make creative art leave or make less of it because the need is lessened since anyone can simply tell an AI to do it.


There's obvious incentives for those unwilling to learn how to do something like write properly, make logos, or be creative, because AI can do it for you without needing to learn or be skillful, but it detracts from the work and makes it meaningless if you just have AI do it all.


Why would someone want to reach out and get a logo made for their department when they could be anti-social and have an AI make it? The entire purpose of this medium and genre is to BE creative and BE social, not to have AI do it for you.


The SCP wikidot wasn't made by 1 or 2 people, its made by a collective of carefully selected, extremely talented, creative individuals, who DID go through the process of learning and becoming more skilled in their work. Pretending that they're egotistical, self-centered, or otherwise 'showing-off' is absurd, and childish.


Generative AI should be banned.
Skill issue, as they say.

 

[Douglas]

Personally, I don’t believe using AI should automatically warrant punishment or be banned outright, especially since enforcing such a rule would be difficult. The responsibility should lie with those reviewing the content to determine whether it meets a standard expected of human-created work. Department leads can reject documents that seem overly AI-generated, and staff members can deny requests for terrible looking AI-generated decals to put on walls. I love using AI as a tool for inspiration and idea generation, but not as a replacement for genuine human creativity. But some humans like myself are lazy and just use AI because it is simpler (yes this is ai generated because i just got off a 13 hour shift and am tired af). Just remember, we'll get to a point where you won't know what is real and what isn't, so why not embrace it now?

-support to enforce a rule

 

[BanishedDemoness]

Generative AI removes the human element of creativity in a medium that is entirely made by human creativity.


Yeke quoted creativity's noun, which directly states that you have to make it yourself, or "to create something". The official SCP wikidot has already banned generative AI in most aspects of actual writing and content creation, including voice acting, but not for other things like spell checking, fractal generation, etc.


There's a stark contrast between original work with the assistance of an AI, and generative AI directed to do something, and accepting generative AI into the server is a very bad idea, making those who actually have to work to make creative art leave or make less of it because the need is lessened since anyone can simply tell an AI to do it.


There's obvious incentives for those unwilling to learn how to do something like write properly, make logos, or be creative, because AI can do it for you without needing to learn or be skillful, but it detracts from the work and makes it meaningless if you just have AI do it all.


Why would someone want to reach out and get a logo made for their department when they could be anti-social and have an AI make it? The entire purpose of this medium and genre is to BE creative and BE social, not to have AI do it for you.


The SCP wikidot wasn't made by 1 or 2 people, its made by a collective of carefully selected, extremely talented, creative individuals, who DID go through the process of learning and becoming more skilled in their work. Pretending that they're egotistical, self-centered, or otherwise 'showing-off' is absurd, and childish.


Generative AI should be banned.
Skill issue, as they say.

This 100%. The wiki the fandon we say we are apart of who creates the largest amou of content has banned it. Yes learning to draw and write is hard but it should be its a creative endeavour (which using AI is not) . AI does not support creativity and rewards those who wpuld make the server worse.

The argument that "departments won't have access it iis a hollow one, we have established this community has great artist and the allowances of slop when we could have immersive high quality content is a slap in the face.

Using it for document generation is just as bad, should the person who spend hours crafting their documents researching and preforming tests be allowed the same time in rp for the review of their document of some one who copy and pasted with a few changes from a LLM. No! It wpuld be lunacy to imply otherwise.

@Yeke Enforcement: Sure it's somthing that has to be done, but like it's as simple as department leadership giving the offending content to moderation. The content we are reporting isn't stuff that's possibly used AI, this isn't a witch hunt. Sure stuff may slip through the cracks, that's an unfortunate reality ,but the content we are reporting is egregious slop. Stuff may and likely will slip through, this isnt a job for us we do it for fun, but the hope is that the consequences for being caught using AI is severe enough as a deterrent from its use at all

Also is this a moral issue. 100% it iis. Believing it's moral to allow work that was taken by tech businesses without permission, taken and used for their profit with out the compensation or agreement of the creators. And content that is taken with blatant disregard and disrespect both for the creators and their express statements regarding their IP is abhorrent. If creativity is somthing that is cared about at all, if the players hard work is anything cared about at all, the allowances of content that only exist because of rampant theft is unacceptable.

 

[Sceptre]

Generative AI removes the human element of creativity in a medium that is entirely made by human creativity.


Yeke quoted creativity's noun, which directly states that you have to make it yourself, or "to create something". The official SCP wikidot has already banned generative AI in most aspects of actual writing and content creation, including voice acting, but not for other things like spell checking, fractal generation, etc.


There's a stark contrast between original work with the assistance of an AI, and generative AI directed to do something, and accepting generative AI into the server is a very bad idea, making those who actually have to work to make creative art leave or make less of it because the need is lessened since anyone can simply tell an AI to do it.


There's obvious incentives for those unwilling to learn how to do something like write properly, make logos, or be creative, because AI can do it for you without needing to learn or be skillful, but it detracts from the work and makes it meaningless if you just have AI do it all.


Why would someone want to reach out and get a logo made for their department when they could be anti-social and have an AI make it? The entire purpose of this medium and genre is to BE creative and BE social, not to have AI do it for you.


The SCP wikidot wasn't made by 1 or 2 people, its made by a collective of carefully selected, extremely talented, creative individuals, who DID go through the process of learning and becoming more skilled in their work. Pretending that they're egotistical, self-centered, or otherwise 'showing-off' is absurd, and childish.


Generative AI should be banned.
Skill issue, as they say.

You are being completely ignorant to the fact that the SCP Wiki is a collaborative writing project involving thousands of different writers. This is a Roleplay server where people want to engage in varying different tasks as part of their role and also play a character. If people want to use AI to assist them in their Roleplay, they have every right to do so. It's not a job, and people shouldn't be expected to go out of their way to commission assets for their Roleplay. Lol.

 

[Cain_Morris14]

The amount of arguments here is ridiculous. It is a -support from me. If someone needs art done but cant get a good artist then AI should be allowed to be used. It 100% should not be a punishable offense in my opinion.

 

[Ogre]

-support

 

[Yeke]

Removed shitposts - please keep topic relevant and less beefing with each other, its a debate not a place for ad hominem attacks or silly behaviour, thankyou.

 

[Marvin Garden]

I see AI as an effective tool for those who may not be as eloquent or advanced writers.
I also see no way to effectively police its usage since AI Detectors simply do not work.
In theory, a good idea. But in practice, too easy to accuse people who are simply good writers.

And, honestly. I really don't care if someone uses AI.
If it can be utilized to the point it becomes indistinguishable to real work, it may as well be real.

 

[Niox]

Pretty sure my comment about making AI against the FLC got deleted. I'm going to be honest I'm 500% serious about that.
If SC think AI is bad, they'll ban it IC! But if it helps to make more actually good propaganda (Something which the Foundation would be interested in), then they'll keep it.

There may be an argument that this should be an IC thing, but I disagree. It should not be accepted to post slop and just if caught have IC punishment, it affect server health and should be thus dealt with ooc.

Have it removed IC. I'm not a US lad, but if people are putting up "Slop" knowing that it's shit, that's a quality issue.

Personally not a fan of AI Art myself, and if someone wants to go the extra mile, get an Artist to make what they want, or are a Artist, go for it! But if they don't want to do that, and instead have AI create some art, as long as it's fine as it's not shit.

If it can be utilized to the point it becomes indistinguishable to real work, it may as well be real.

This.

 

[Yeke]

Suggestion Denied​

---

Hi @BanishedDemoness

Thank you for taking the time to create this suggestion.

Normally I would leave this to the Superadmin team, however I believe it would be beneficial for me to resolve this one myself.

We appreciate everyone's thoughts here equally, as you all have made valid points points for each side however there are a few reasons why I have to deny this.

- Enforcement: After discussion with the NL team we believe enforcement should be a local IC issue rather than a staffing issues, so if you see someone generating an entire document, then the person who approves documents has every right to call it out as not the persons own work and that you wont accept it for whatever reason.

- Payment: Unfortunately we can not reasonable expect anyone to pay someone just for an artist to draw things, it would be wrong of us to hold that expectation

- Images: Any image that is planned for being a Decal as I said in my previous reply will be checked for; Quality, Logical sense and its fitting of the theme.

However one thing I will say is we do appreciate all the people who contribute with their incredible art that they have put the time and effort into mastering to create these amazing pieces of art, we do not want to make you guys feel we do not appreciate your work, however at the same time, we cannot conform people to one view.

Furthermore if you are an artist and you do want to help the community out, we are always looking for artists to do designs and texturing for us, if you think that sounds like you, then I would implore you to apply.

Kindest Regards
Yeke​