Denied Cameras, GOI Disguises, and Code-words

This suggestion has been denied and will not receive development.
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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Changes the cameras to display the name of whoever you are disguised as if you are a GOI, are under the effects of SCP-914, or any destruction beam model changes. This would also repurpose the "UNKNOWN" displayed to instead be randomly placed on members of the Foundation as well as having the potential to be placed on GOIs that are disguised.

Adds a ruling that any internal code-words utilized to expose disguised GOIs(not special code-words, such as kill orders, or short-hand information) must be displayed somewhere that is reasonable(such as within the Department or MTF's bunks, spawn, or within an Office). This is mainly because code-words can't be interrogated, and it is physically impossible for any GOI to know a code-word, resulting in any valid response from a GOI being taken to an admin sit.

Adds a ruling that requires a reason to conduct a code-word check in RP, such as personnel failing to terminate hostiles, purposefully neglecting friendlies, idling during fire-fights, entering an area of importance(CL4+, Biometric, or Code-locked areas) or other areas deemed highly important(such as maintenance rooms with boxes, the reactor room, etc.), or if personnel are trespassing(such as Nu-7 in E-11 bunks). Additionally, if an individual presents a valid ID, a code-word check shouldn't follow it immediately. Why would a valid ID prompt suspicion?

NOTE: Code-word checks can still be conducted at checkpoints to important areas(such as F3, 914, 008, etc.), hallways would not be considered "important". They just can't be conducted *anywhere*, since it's supposed to be a secretive code-word, you wouldn't say it anywhere outside of specific places. Just like saying Overseer, or O5, you wouldn't do it in a random hallway, or in an SCP's chamber unless its a CL4 area(like 682, or 008).

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ CI, and GOC, can conduct Deep-Cover and Assessment Raids without immediately being discovered by cameras, or code-word checked.
+ Class-D Personnel are no longer displayed as such while under the effects of SCP-914.
+ Cameras can't immediately give a reason to ID, Code-word, Kant-count, and EST personnel without any input, RP, or skill involved.
+ More RP intensive scenarios may unfold with personnel marked as UNKNOWN randomly, rather than exclusively for GOIs.
+ Deep-Covers, Class-D Personnel, or Assessment Operatives who take the time to learn the active Code-word, obtain a valid ID, etc., can't simply be terminated or captured because the camera system doesn't recognize their face, even when it is fully covered.
+ Cameras can still detect a given person's name, meaning if an action is taken that seems suspicious, an AOS can still be called on that Operative, leading to their discovery, and a keen or aware GOI/Class-D can change disguises upon conducting suspicious activities in front of CCTV.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- DEA can't immediately target or EST GOIs because the camera says "UNKNOWN".
- More reasonable ID checks can be conducted.
- MTFs might get upset they can't meta-game GOIs by immediately code-word checking them on-sight.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Better DC/ARs, and a more appropriate use for the cameras, since cams having the ability to see through SCP-914, and GOI disguises is really ridiculous, especially because O5 have nothing better to do but sit on F3 cams and make callouts for A-1 to kill Class-Ds and GOI DC/ARs. It really makes it impossible to conduct DC/ARs with the un-interrogatable, un-knowable code-words, and the newly added cameras that see straight through disguises of any kind.
With the proposed changes, DC/AR operatives can sneak into a given department's bunks to find out a code-word, and would no longer be immediately discovered by camera operators. If they present an invalid ID, or fail a code-word check, it's because they failed to do their research or get the required equipment, rather than completely impossible to find out a code-word, or avoid cameras. Destroying cameras isn't always an option, and makes you look extremely suspicious, defeating the point.
 
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-Support
Codeword change is horrible and will only end badly
+Support for the cameras but -support for codewords
-Support
Code word suggestion is a terrible idea, Take a disguise that doesnt need code words.
If a tech expert gets a CL4 and goes into 914, Gets O1 disguise and physically cant be found out due to ISD or LE not showing keycards
Code words are on literally the most over powered thing on the server, and completely counter DC/ARs. You can just read someone's name go "Oh thats 100% a CI DC or a GOC Assessment" and then code-word check them if they're doing nothing suspicious. You cant find code-words through any in-game means period. The only people who are going to -Support the code word change benefit from it the most, that being DEA and A-1/O-1.
If a Tech Expert using 914 to get an O-1 disguise, and gets a CL4 card, ISD can still check his card, and you can still be ID checked as ISD by doing /me shows site ID. Even then, I didn't disallow code-word checking all together, I just stated that entering any important area, or passing a checkpoint would be a valid reason to ID/Code-check, and entering bunks would fall under this. Obviously if a TE is being mingy, you can just use cameras to find them doing sus shit, or travel in groups.

You want to disallow any and all DC/ARs to utilize any MTF or DEA disguises because of Tech Experts being mingy? How is that OUR fault and why should WE get punished for other people minging?
 

Khan

Active member
Jan 9, 2023
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+ support for cams but - support for the codewords, no reason to change the current system due to the Failrp and meta rules in place
 

KinglyIV

Well-known Member
Oct 6, 2022
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-Support
Camera's showing people as unknown should stay, you would think that the biggest organization in the world would have a personnel database so if someone unknown is wandering around we can easily spot them. Codewords being displayed on a quark board is the worst idea for the fact that they are meant memorized so nobody outside of that regiment knows the codewords. Yes it is unfair for GOI's to not be able to get the codewords at all but its the only way for mtf to realize if the person they are talking to is fake or not. If we were to display codewords in our bunks any random dude at 5am can hack into the bunks and learn everything and spread it.
 
+Support: Camaras, While i do like it, i feel as it makes DC's have a harder time and i do think should be changed.

-Support: everything else. the code word suggestion is stupid and thats how code words are supposed to be it makes no sense for them to post a code word to identify eachother on a document they would just know what to say and the response.
Adds a ruling that requires a reason to conduct a code-word check in RP, such as personnel failing to terminate hostiles, purposefully neglecting friendlies, idling during fire-fights, entering an area of importance(CL4+, Biometric, or Code-locked areas) or other areas deemed highly important(such as maintenance rooms with boxes, the reactor room, etc.), or if personnel are trespassing(such as Nu-7 in E-11 bunks). Additionally, if an individual presents a valid ID, a code-word check shouldn't follow it immediately. Why would a valid ID prompt suspicion?
most DEA dont ask to ID eachother and instead just code word eachother. but it already kinda requires a reason to code check eachother and a Code 1 or reports of 914 being on 1:1 will usually make us code word eachother.

I know the reasoning to make this suggestion as i was apart of the huge sit with you (im pretty sure) sadly a suggestion like this requires a whole change for something that doesnt happen a whole often. Unless 05 is at camaras constantly this never really happens and its usually a rare occurrence that this happens. and for code words its meant to identify eachother if all GOI's had access to A-1 and every MTF's code words it would make having a code word entirely useless.
 

DaveDogs

Well-known Member
Feb 19, 2023
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Frankly, this needed to be addressed sooner, I'm glad @Kito made a suggestion for it. Even if this gets denied, there needs to be a review on how code words are utilized.

Codewords are a nigh ooc (not able to be acquired or utilized IC if you arent in that group, how does that make any sense?) counter to a IC event (Deep Cover or Assesment Raids). It's unfair, and contributes to metagaming.

Either make the Codeword discoverable IC, or remove them. If groups want codewords so badly, then they can deal with changing their codewords if it becomes compromised.

GOIs who have discovered codewords should have to document their discovery of it, so it can disprove metagaming or failrp claims.

Camera suggestion is beyond obvious, and does not require explanation.

+Suport on every suggestion
 
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-Support
Camera's showing people as unknown should stay, you would think that the biggest organization in the world would have a personnel database so if someone unknown is wandering around we can easily spot them. Codewords being displayed on a quark board is the worst idea for the fact that they are meant memorized so nobody outside of that regiment knows the codewords. Yes it is unfair for GOI's to not be able to get the codewords at all but its the only way for mtf to realize if the person they are talking to is fake or not. If we were to display codewords in our bunks any random dude at 5am can hack into the bunks and learn everything and spread it.
The issue is that any MTF can randomly code-word check, resulting in the only time a code-word is used is when they already know its an external GOI.

The cameras are blatantly overpowered because they look past disguises. If a GOI was undisguised? It would make sense to display Unknown. But someone running around with the same gear as another member of the Foundation get instantly detected to? Why do Class-Ds exclusively display as Class-D on the cameras too, even when under 914 effects?
+Support: Camaras, While i do like it, i feel as it makes DC's have a harder time and i do think should be changed.

-Support: everything else. the code word suggestion is stupid and thats how code words are supposed to be it makes no sense for them to post a code word to identify eachother on a document they would just know what to say and the response.

most DEA dont ask to ID eachother and instead just code word eachother. but it already kinda requires a reason to code check eachother and a Code 1 or reports of 914 being on 1:1 will usually make us code word eachother.

I know the reasoning to make this suggestion as i was apart of the huge sit with you (im pretty sure) sadly a suggestion like this requires a whole change for something that doesnt happen a whole often. Unless 05 is at camaras constantly this never really happens and its usually a rare occurrence that this happens. and for code words its meant to identify eachother if all GOI's had access to A-1 and every MTF's code words it would make having a code word entirely useless.
Honestly I wouldn't mind an either or for codewords. Requiring a reason to code-check someone is the main thing I want passed, since right now the only time people are checked is when an MTF or Dpt. meta-games and code-checks the only person in the room that is a GOI.

There is no required reason to code-check somebody, resulting in MTFs and Dpt.s just using code-words, since you can literally always do that without reason. Especially in combination with cameras, which display who to code-check for MTFs/Dpt.s it makes it literally impossible to conduct a DC/AR in HCZ or LCZ.
 
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-SUPPORT

codewords are there for a reason, to detect intruders disguised as them, why would they have their code words strapped around in their bunks, it doesn’t make sense. You don’t want people not in your reg to know your codewords. Especially for MTF's like A1 and O1 cause it means an intruder can get close to ethics or the O5 without being detected as fake.

If its clear metagame just report it.

It could be reported in comms, or seen on cams that you did something therefore you get code word checked
 
-SUPPORT

codewords are there for a reason, to detect intruders disguised as them, why would they have their code words strapped around in their bunks, it doesn’t make sense. You don’t want people not in your reg to know your codewords. Especially for MTF's like A1 and O1 cause it means an intruder can get close to ethics or the O5 without being detected as fake.

If its clear metagame just report it.

It could be reported in comms, or seen on cams that you did something therefore you get code word checked
Thats the issue, you can be code-word checked without any restrictions, and theres no way to find them out IC, so if you DO know the code-word, the other party can call meta-gaming, but you cant call meta-gaming on them because they checked you without reason. Plus, even if it goes to a sit, they can just say "Im checking everyone".
 
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