Accepted Civilian/Surface Overhaul for better relations between Foundation, Chaos Insurgency and GOC

[Dusk]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove
*some suggestions are by civilian community request​

• Open up the possibility for more classes available to the surface zone whether it be a more robust police force or more in-depth gun salesmen.​
• Allow for regiments to be created on a client to client basis so a civilian militia feels like a militia and not a collection of trigger happy PC gamers wanting to kill MTF and CI just because the Mayor is screaming and yelling​
• If no plugin exists to this degree, allow the Police force to be more robust like the Foundation in regards to the simple nature of who the police force is. An actual Ranger Military, SWAT etc.​
• If MC&D is not civilian based, allow MC&D to be hired for various duties.​
• Allow MC&D to have easy access to sampling equipment, at the moment, for being a secret gagillion dollar organization I have to ask other organizations for simple testing equipment or any equipment outside of my base loadout which makes no sense from a roleplaying perspective​
• Remove donator ranks for any surface roles​
• MC&D is a pretty pointless class, as its apparently this huge organization but there's only three people who represent it and they only sell a pill and a couple of guns and they can basically do nothing other than advert their sales and sometimes go into the facilities to sell their guns or if you're lucky enough see something classified then die for it regardless because nobody actually RP's with MC&D to this degree. Allow for more products to be sold or have a regiment in place for the MC&D with more slots or types of roles to play as.​
• If none of these options are realistic allow surface zone accounts to change their name at will for RP reasons. Changing names currently is a pain and the 5 minute cooldown drives me away from doing internal role play for the surface police station.​
• Allow the Mayor to have more power for law creation, regiment creation, building, foreign relations or anything a person of power would have the ability to do in the Foundation if addons are not a possibility. Mayor is currently irrelevant at the moment and without a dedicated Mayor on, Rangers are pointless.​
• Discord for Surface Zone, TeamSpeak for Surface Zone. OPEN UP the ability for people to role play on the surface, BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO. Make surface zone people feel included in the RP because as of right now its left in the dust with no infrastructure AT ALL.​
• Real Police Station, Police Cars, Real Prison and not just hold someone in a cell for X minutes.​
• Real armory for the Rangers​
• Real Medical supplies for Medics​
• More than one document on document board​
• More slots open for Rangers​
• Elastic Restraints as Metal cuffs are impossible to use efficiently on the surface​
• Better form of government on the surface other than just the Mayor. Its hard to uphold the law with 5 people and the Mayor; equally as hard to maintain ALL of the civilians as they outnumber us by quite a large portion​

Possible Positives of the suggestion​

1. Adding in more classes to deepen the RPing element of the surface would encourage more people to participate. Only have 5 players for Rangers and 1 for Mayor is quite a low number considering the amount of personnel each other faction has access to.​
2. Currently there is no chain of command for anyone or anything. So the entirety of the infrastructure is solely dependent on a person to person basis and not based on any actual regiment. Allowing for there to be an actual Ranger and surface regiment or even the ability for people to make ones for themselves would allow for there to be continuous RP throughout the new people that play or old ones that join in.​
3. This suggestion piggybacks off of #1 and #2 combined by creating actual classes for different roles​
4. Currently MC&D is not biased between any faction and completely neutral, however they simply cannot do anything other than sell or infiltrate a base as one person which through RP standards on here is completely foolish as if a Civilian gets into either base the first point of contact through the military is to arrest and detain and with MC&D its mainly shoot on sight.​
5. Why is this even a thing? Nobody plays the roles so why make it even harder to play them then it already is.​
6. Currently MC&D is simply just a minge or laid back role to play as and for 80$ its simply not worth the cost. Broadening their supply as BLACK MARKET SALESMEN and not just Gun Dealers will allow for a more robust sales RP. Giving MC&D their own regiment would also give people a reason to donate and engage with this as currently there's only 3 allowed and you can't do much with it other than sell and talk to people.​
7. If nothing, allowing the players to make up their OWN RANKS via the name system at will would enable them to come up with their own scenarios at any point and not have a CD in between.​
8. Currently speaking the Mayor has no real authority outside of accepting warrants and arrests. Outside of this he's just a civilian with a title. Giving the Mayor the ability to edit the ranger station or even create laws and regulations for the surface people would give the surface civilians a reason to RP and engage with more effort other than trying to just infobreach and kill people. Without a dedicated Mayor the Rangers are pointless and without dedicated Rangers the Mayor is pointless.​
9. There really is no dedicated outside comms outside for CIVS GLOBAL for surface specifically Rangers.​
10. Possibility of remaking or expanding the station and cars for the Police would give a better impression of the RP behind playing as a surface Ranger.​
11. Rangers currently have no weapons or armor dedicated to opposing any faction other than InfoBreach respawn rules which is quite boring.​
12. Medics are normally non-existent and pointless with the respawn rule in place for rangers.​
13. Currently you can only have only one document on one of the boards in the ranger station​
14. 5 players for the Rangers is abnormally low considering we're against 10-20 people on either faction side and with nobody really playing surface characters no militia is ever present to assist​
15. Metal cuffs on the surface are quite buggy and can in some situation kill people with the terrain on the surface, elastic restraints would allow for an easier apprehension of criminals​
16. More leadership roles on the surface other than the mayor would be beneficial to expanding the RP element of having an actual militia on the surface.​

Possible Negatives of the suggestion​

• Realistically speaking none of these suggestions are negative in anyway as it doesn't really interfere with anything outside of the surface unless surface civilians are breaking RP with anything new added.​

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted​

• All things considered the Surface needs a major rework regardless if it has to do with any of these or not. The surface can be fun with the right people but it shouldn't be down to the luck of the draw with who is engaging with the roles. It should be a defined system and if people don't want to engage there isn't any harm in adding a system to enable that. If people do want to engage with the new system I don't see why it wouldn't be a big positive for the entirety of the server. As it stands the Foundation mainly deals with just the Chaos Insurgency and internal issues and the GOC is never really on to make an apparent impact on anything unless flagged on for a specific issue. I personally feel the surface plays an enormous part in the RP of SCP RP otherwise there's really no impact from anyone doing anything outside of internal personnel. Even then internal personnel can deal with these issues themselves.​

 

[Caesar Kuznetsov]

+ Support

Civilian is only a minge role because of the lack of any real content or roleplay potential, same with a lot of other jobs. It's only useful for grinding XP and nothing more.

 

[ShadowPL]

+Support
I like this suggestion a lot

 

[Max Henry]

+Support

Hell Yes!

 

[MrSiens]

-support
Very much just a "more more more" Suggestion with very little actual thought put into it about how these things would be added, and what would be neglected instead.

Surface Zone is not the main focus of the server.
Creating a new "regiment" for every subgroup on the server does not fix anything.
It would be silly to assume the Police force of a tiny backwater town in the ice wastes of canada would have even the slimmest chance against
A. The World´s biggest conspiracy
B. The Most Technolgically and Magically Advanced international government
C. The most ruthless and brutal guerilla insurgency

The Fact that surface weapons dont hold a candle to the weapons of the Big Factions makes sense, you are ordinary people fighting against the forces that be.

MC&D Are not mercenaries, and a Paramilitary GOI has already been accepted for being Added:

Accepted - Mercenary Jobs (Hear me out before you place your verdict)

What does this suggestion change/add/remove: It adds the Valravn Corporation, an Anomalous Private Military Company (This is a fresh new GOI on the main wiki) I know that people have wanted a Mercenary Job for a while and this is why i'm suggesting it, also i believe it would be fun and would...

www.civilgamers.com

"Discord For Surface Zone" puzzles me, you mean external? a discord channel or multiple? I dont see how this would truly help.

Many of these additions (asking for 5+ new surface zone jobs) would be a lot of work for very little return, as even with these changes, Surface would contribute very little to RP.

While roleplaying as MC&D, or Rangers or as the Mayor is currently difficult, it is not impossible. Your suggestions would not make it any easier.

 

[Derek White]

+Support I do agree that the surface does need a rework.

 

[Ben10083]

-Support with the reasons the same as what MrSiens said.

Overall frankly if we were to make civilians a 'proper' sub faction, all that means is that we will have the other GOIs have a major thorn in their side as anyone remotely competent can easily get infobreaches

 

[Dusk]

-support
Very much just a "more more more" Suggestion with very little actual thought put into it about how these things would be added, and what would be neglected instead.

Surface Zone is not the main focus of the server.
Creating a new "regiment" for every subgroup on the server does not fix anything.
It would be silly to assume the Police force of a tiny backwater town in the ice wastes of canada would have even the slimmest chance against
A. The World´s biggest conspiracy
B. The Most Technolgically and Magically Advanced international government
C. The most ruthless and brutal guerilla insurgency

The Fact that surface weapons dont hold a candle to the weapons of the Big Factions makes sense, you are ordinary people fighting against the forces that be.

MC&D Are not mercenaries, and a Paramilitary GOI has already been accepted for being Added:

Accepted - Mercenary Jobs (Hear me out before you place your verdict)

What does this suggestion change/add/remove: It adds the Valravn Corporation, an Anomalous Private Military Company (This is a fresh new GOI on the main wiki) I know that people have wanted a Mercenary Job for a while and this is why i'm suggesting it, also i believe it would be fun and would...

www.civilgamers.com

"Discord For Surface Zone" puzzles me, you mean external? a discord channel or multiple? I dont see how this would truly help.

Many of these additions (asking for 5+ new surface zone jobs) would be a lot of work for very little return, as even with these changes, Surface would contribute very little to RP.

While roleplaying as MC&D, or Rangers or as the Mayor is currently difficult, it is not impossible. Your suggestions would not make it any easier.

The surface zone plays a primary part of the server so that's one thing you're wrong about otherwise confidentiality wouldn't exist within the Foundation nor would intelligence be required.

It creates a chain of command aka why everyone enjoys playing the MTF.

No where in the post is any of this elaborated in this way, stop putting words in my mouth.

The fact that you assumed a better armory meant matadors and tanks is laughable, but allow me to clue you in on the fact that different weapons and guns exist for different people in different time periods regardless of their technological surroundings. To assume a town; remember, this is based on RP not on how you view the world, would have nothing more than a stock rifle and a handgun as their main loadout for their law enforcement WHILE knowing there are black market dealings and multiple shady factions surrounding their town is pretty far-fetched and to assume that is fun because "iT wILl maKe mY jOb haRdeR" is in my eyes an invalid form of criticism.

Okay, so remove MC&D and replace them with these new additions. It's a pointless class for 80$ and people will only use it for being minges and screwing around, not for the intended purpose.

Well it would apply to having regiments just like sectors within the foundation it adds to the element of roleplaying and allows the community to share and contribute in ways you can't in-game.

Because you're always on surface characters to know what will and won't effect gameplay? I don't understand this criticism, there's 15 of the same class on MTF with just different character models and text next to those character models and for some astounding and unknown reason to the greatest minds on the planet its the most popular regiment to be on. It's almost like when you give players the ability to choose things that fit their style of gameplay or even an open ended decision for how they want to play, they engage with it more, who would of known!

And your criticism's fall on deaf ears because they offer no valid points on WHY they would be bad for making surface more engaging, just how they pertain to you and your ideals and if you've actually played in any depth on surface roles you would know its next to impossible to get anything going unless everyone is technically in on the same situation otherwise the surface is just roadkill on the side of the road for any faction.

Thanks.

 

[Dusk]

-Support with the reasons the same as what MrSiens said.

Overall frankly if we were to make civilians a 'proper' sub faction, all that means is that we will have the other GOIs have a major thorn in their side as anyone remotely competent can easily get infobreaches

I don't believe that's a negative in anyway shape or form, getting people to do their jobs better only adds to the depth the RP will go, no? If your honest rebuttal for making surface an actual regiment for people to enjoy and evolve is "GOI's will have to work harder to make their secrets, secret" I don't think saying -support is fair.

 

[Dusk]

bump thread for more discussion and anymore ideas to add.

 

[Juju]

+Support Playing as A civ Is really Boring.

 

[Dusk]

+Support Playing as A civ Is really Boring.

I agree, its only fun when everyone is info breaching and trying to kill each other.
Should take this opportunity to expand on the great foundation surface roles have to create something actually fun everyone can join in on.

 

[MazuzaM]

civilian militia feels like a militia

Civilian armed militias are not allowed and NL/SL said so in multiple occasions

robust police force or more in-depth gun salesmen.

Rangers and Gun Dealers already do not do what their job is and just shoot Foundation/CI/UNGOC On surface at any given moment, giving them more armed jobs is not a good idea

allow the Police force to be more robust like the Foundation in regards to the simple nature of who the police force is. An actual Ranger Military, SWAT etc.

As said before, Rangers shoot anything at any given moment, making donor jobs a regiment is a no-no. Also "Ranger militaries" and "SWAT" forces wouldnt even be realistic, it's a small village that already has a UN Enstablishment and a military base under government knowledge, they wouldnt send Special Forces..

If none of these options are realistic allow surface zone accounts to change their name at will for RP reasons. Changing names currently is a pain and the 5 minute cooldown drives me away from doing internal role play for the surface police station.

Switching your name every 3 seconds because you kill and leave would not be realistic and appropriate for this kind of RP

Real Prison and not just hold someone in a cell for X minutes.

As said before, Rangers are donor jobs, the amount of staff sits for RDA would be crazy

Real armory for the Rangers

Rangers are not supposed to have strong weaponry at spawn except for perma weapons, they are already mingy with their equipment I can't imagine what would happen with an armoury..

• Better form of government on the surface other than just the Mayor. Its hard to uphold the law with 5 people and the Mayor; equally as hard to maintain ALL of the civilians as they outnumber us by quite a large portion​

​

What do you expect SL to add? A president? Secret Service? It's a fucking village in Saskwatchean

Overall, this suggestion is just crying for a surface TDM
- Support

Edit: This would be somewhat possible with a bigger amount of players on, sadly Gmod has a 128 players hard cap which would result in all these jobs existing and having 0 players on them except for a couple, everyone with more than 1 braincell prefers CI/UNGOC/F Roleplay as it's more serious than mindlessly running around surface with an AK

 

[Dusk]

Civilian armed militias are not allowed and NL/SL said so in multiple occasions

Rangers and Gun Dealers already do not do what their job is and just shoot Foundation/CI/UNGOC On surface at any given moment, giving them more armed jobs is not a good idea

As said before, Rangers shoot anything at any given moment, making donor jobs a regiment is a no-no. Also "Ranger militaries" and "SWAT" forces wouldnt even be realistic, it's a small village that already has a UN Enstablishment and a military base under government knowledge, they wouldnt send Special Forces..

Switching your name every 3 seconds because you kill and leave would not be realistic and appropriate for this kind of RP

As said before, Rangers are donor jobs, the amount of staff sits for RDA would be crazy

Rangers are not supposed to have strong weaponry at spawn except for perma weapons, they are already mingy with their equipment I can't imagine what would happen with an armoury..

What do you expect SL to add? A president? Secret Service? It's a fucking village in Saskwatchean

Overall, this suggestion is just crying for a surface TDM
- Support

Edit: This would be somewhat possible with a bigger amount of players on, sadly Gmod has a 128 players hard cap which would result in all these jobs existing and having 0 players on them except for a couple, everyone with more than 1 braincell prefers CI/UNGOC/F Roleplay as it's more serious than mindlessly running around surface with an AK

1. So get rid of any surface role with weapons, thin out what people can play and streamline what people already like to play, in your eyes nobody besides MTF and CI should have any enjoyability, and nobody actually takes it serious enough to engage with it apparently. Punish the group because a few threw rocks, that's a solid mentality to keep people engaged with the server.

2. Reach deep inside your brain and try to figure out why exactly that is, its not too hard to surmise.

3. They're peacekeepers, so if you see anyone engaging in this behavior feel free to call a sit with an admin. Neither outside faction WANTS their presence known unless either or have a valid footprint in the natural sway of surface environment.

4. So have staff monitor the surface? Isn't that their job? Also pretty easy to catch someone abusing this.

5. This is under the assumption donators never have sits with admins. You give nobody freedom to play, you have dead content, easy as that.

6. Again just like every criticism, biased and makes no sense. Once again not prevalent, no where in my post did I say anything about strong weapons. Again putting words in my mouth, I said relevant. Furthermore, get rid of rangers and the mayor then. You'll have mingy behavior with no secure foundation to back up the reasons to keep it civil, AKA A CHAIN OF COMMAND AND ACTUAL BOO FOR THE ONLY CIVIL ENFORCEMENT FOR ALL CIVILIANS.

7. Yeah sure. This is also a virtual world in a video game. So I don't think keeping true to the size of what you think a village is would benefit anyone other than the people that like to keep their jobs easy.

There's plenty of people. Sadly everyone just plays MTF because its the most engaging, what a shocker!

I'd like to once again bring up to any staff members that people are not actually giving valid reasons for why these suggestions are good or bad, simply how it effects their playstyle.

 

[Avenged]

+ support

I agree that changes are needed for surface gameplay. As it sits, it's very mid in aspects of role-playing. You really are left with either mundane, unenjoyable tasks, sneaking inside the foundation, or trolling MTF at the entrance. An overhaul would be a welcome change.

 

[MazuzaM]

. They're peacekeepers, so if you see anyone engaging in this behavior feel free to call a sit with an admin. Neither outside faction WANTS their presence known unless either or have a valid footprint in the natural sway of surface environmen

Rangers are not peacekeepers by rules, they are allowed to raid F/CI/UNGOC...

So get rid of any surface role with weapons, thin out what people can play and streamline what people already like to play, in your eyes nobody besides MTF and CI should have any enjoyability, and nobody actually takes it serious enough to engage with it apparently. Punish the group because a few threw rocks, that's a solid mentality to keep people engaged with the server.

You don't have a say on that, NL stated so.

So have staff monitor the surface? Isn't that their job? Also pretty easy to catch someone abusing this.

Do you think staff priority is monitor surface 24/7 or do you think they have other things to do? Like monitoring onsite activity, helping in events or roleplaying, do you think staff are machines?

Literally cba to answer all your stuff
overall this suggestion is shit lamo

 

[Dusk]

Rangers are not peacekeepers by rules, they are allowed to raid F/CI/UNGOC...

You don't have a say on that, NL stated so.

Do you think staff priority is monitor surface 24/7 or do you think they have other things to do? Like monitoring onsite activity, helping in events or roleplaying, do you think staff are machines?

Literally cba to answer all your stuff
overall this suggestion is shit lamo

Once again a biased understanding of how reworks would actually pertain to the many and not just you, but thanks for reminding everyone who actually ruins the fun for everyone else.

Technically speaking rangers cannot raid any facility. They can enter the facility with a rp reason, not raid. They are peacekeepers, I play on the surface, leave the understandings to the people that actually play these things.

Thanks.

 

[Dusk]

+ support

I agree that changes are needed for surface gameplay. As it sits, it's very mid in aspects of role-playing. You really are left with either mundane, unenjoyable tasks, sneaking inside the foundation, or trolling MTF at the entrance. An overhaul would be a welcome change.

I totally agree, Puggo has been of late trying his damnedest to make surface the best it can be and I can say it's been a blast lately. Not a lot of people are minging as much anymore since people have been putting the surface roles under a microscope.

 

[Kito]

Rangers are not peacekeepers by rules, they are allowed to raid F/CI/UNGOC...

You don't have a say on that, NL stated so.

Do you think staff priority is monitor surface 24/7 or do you think they have other things to do? Like monitoring onsite activity, helping in events or roleplaying, do you think staff are machines?

Literally cba to answer all your stuff
overall this suggestion is shit lamo

I don't think surface should be kept the way it is. While I do agree, staff shouldn't be on surface all the time to make sure RP is going smooth, if you see failRP, RDM, etc. you should call staff, regardless of if it's surface or not.

However, many of the changes & suggestions made would encourage RP on surface, which would lead to people taking it more seriously, & playing it more frequently. Even if it stays at the same population as it normally is, that being about 5-10, that's still a decent amount of RP, especially for newer players.

D-Block, D-Class, GENSec, & Researchers are not the best at RP most of the time, meaning if your only experience is that, and you make a civilian character, only to find the surface is dead, & the little people on it are mingy, you're more inclined to say "hey, theres hardly any RP on this server!" & join in with the mingy behavior.

Discouraging, or limiting the abilities of RP for any faction is a terribly crude idea for any RP server period. This server is not an exception. If the slots are dead or empty, GMs can host surface events, get a lot of folk on those jobs, & let them have a good time. That's what the server is for.

Additionally, I believe a SWAT role should be donator, & the Ranger job should be open to a certain level cap. It would make sense little SWAT would be present, so having at most 2-4 SWAT would be A-OK with me & keep the donation benifits of surface, while giving people the ability to RP as police on surface still, assisting with the military or UN, etc.

I've seen good RP, namely from talking with the mayor that was demanding something for the deaths of citizens by military force, in which I explained & created a story for him that CI stole military uniforms and killed citizens in a ploy to get us fighting, & that the real threat was a terrorist faction, etc. & it was enjoyable.
If more RP like that was encouraged somehow on surface, it would be a wonderful addition for every faction, not more work to be done. If the UN, CI, & Foundation could RP with & engage with the surface civilians, Rangers, mayor, etc. to complete a goal, it would be a great time for most persons involved.

Rangers could arrest CI for unlawful carrying, or have the UN give aid to the town if & when SCPs get to surface, or the UN could work with Rangers or the Mayor to keep the town civil, there's lots of RP opportunities with the surface roles as-is, let alone with the additions suggested.

While I don't think every suggestion on the list is perfect, I think it has some good ideas for the content team, which is really what suggestions are about, not if the suggestion itself is a perfect fit for the server.

+Support, surface needs an overhaul!

 

[Jaeger 'Paperazzi']

+/- Neutral.
I like everything other than making civis and rangers not have armor, that is complete bs.
If civis are going to have a chance to defend themselves against the Nu-7 or the CI or whatever they need to have a fighting chance!