Rule Suggestion CL4 Promotion application requirement equivalency.

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JasonTheCheesyGuy

JasonTheCheesyGuy

Game Master
Game Master
Feb 11, 2025
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What does this suggestions change/add/remove:

This suggestion proposes that the following roles no longer require an application to be submitted, but may rather be promoted into by the relevant department heads.

- Internal Security Department Inspector
- Security Captain
- RSD Executive Researcher
- Medical Consultant
- External Affairs Special Agent
- Ethics Committee Assistant (Considered; But perhaps not wise.)
- Overseer Council Assistant (Considered; But perhaps not wise.)

This is to make the attainment of these ranks equal to the other CL4 positions. As it stands, the bar for gaining one of the above roles is much harder due to the added effort of writing an application and public scrutiny upon the promotion. As it stands, the following roles can already be promoted into without requiring a public application to be written;

- M.T.F. E11 Lt.
- M.T.F. Nu-7 Lt.
- M.T.F. A-1/O-1 Lt.
- GOC Lt.
- Chaos Insurgency DELCOM

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?
The only threads regarding applications that I could locate had to do with Site-Command, or Site-Admin, and neither touched on the topic of the above roles.

Possible Positives of the suggestion:
- A significant increase in the amount of players that may attain and play these roles, solving the issue of their lacking presence upon site.
- More equivalency for roles that hold less OOC/In-RP authority, yet require more effort to be attained.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- The lowering of public scrutiny for these roles may result in less quality control for those that play the roles.
- More rapid overturn of JCL4 positions.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

This change will provide even playing ground between various CL4 positions, without causing issues that are not already present for M.T.F./GOC/CI. It just events out the playing field more. Why should an RSD Executive be required to write a full application and be subjected to public scrutiny for a role that has no meaningful IC authority beyond tests, and no OOC authority beyond the occasional job-ban, while at the same time other CL4 positions for regiments can be attained without any public scrutiny while holding more OOC authority over others' progression within their departments, and more IC capacity for wrongdoing?
 
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Bar assistants, I agree with this.

I believe these promotions could be done through in-character methods, and shouldn't need a forums application to get them which often results in good applicants not applying.

My only worry is the safety that applications add, it allows staff members to review a person before they get CL4 access and it also generally allows for better control by SA/SC/Staff to look into bias and favoritism in promotions.
 
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I'm not totally against this, however, from experience, I believe it's way harder to become a CL4 within an MTF/CI/GOC due to the ranks you have to climb through.

For example, when I was DoEA, if I saw a senior agent be active for ~2 weeks and posted an application for special agent they would get accepted, they didn't need a "great" application, just a good enough one that shows they understand what the role is about.

On the other side there are the MTFs, 2 years ago I do have to agree, it was way easier getting a CL4 position within an MTF rather than a department, however things have changed, field promotions are pretty rare and the only way to get promoted is if you do good and only once a week, at the meeting.

I can't speak for the GOIs as I don't have much experience in them.

Now my opinion is that the roles above should stay the same. It's easier for department leads to determine who is actually capable of holding a CL4 position by reading their application rather than promoting them and hoping they do well (I don't know about the other departments but DEA looks more over the activity of the applicant rather than their application, although it is pretty important aswell).
 
+Support

The best suggetion i ever seen in this community, i had plans to make the same suggetion but with only making CL5 only appliction based while making all CL4 roles IC/No Application based promo. This will make the server more MRP style (High command was only Appliction based and since Site Command is a High Command. You could count Site Admin to High Command status but since not all Site Admin are "CL5" then Site Command is only "High Command").

My Only problem that will need to add Ingame rosters for such deptmarents and which "jobs" will be added to those new rosters if this gets accepted.
My Idea to this problem that if suggetion accepted and rosters made, then any Sr. CL3+ will be added to those new rosters, ISD, DEA and Gensec already got this covered due their Sr. CL3 jobs already being here but RSD and Medical will have to make a Sr. CL3+ job for the new rosters.

I guess Senior Doctor is kinda "Sr. CL3" if you don't count CM and for RSD, they would need make Sr. Researcher a Sr. CL3 job or make a new Sr. CL3 job.

While it would need lot of Dev Time if accepted but this will be step in right direction if it will be accepted.
 
I honestly don't really think theres that much of a problem with the way it is, MTFs / GOIs are an objectively tighter nit community where there is the expectation of being in TS while being on the job regardless of your rank, helping you become known within the regiment. Regiments and departments are just two completely different systems, in a regiment you have say 4 LT slots, up to 10 CSG slots, if at most 5 CSGs are actually fit / eligable for LT you just have to find the person who is most fit out of those 5 for the position. Departments would have to arbitrarily decide when someone is fit for a promotion to CL4, making it a lot harder for people who don't have friends in the department to get promoted which isn't needed.

Its not like applications are that hard to make for Jr CL4 positions, my first Jr CL4 app which was accepted had at most 3 sentences per section and 4 sentences for the lore, if you can't go through the effort to make something as simple as that you shouldn't be CL4. As for the public scruitiny, I have never seen public opinions actually affect the outcome of an application, the only opinions that matter are the opinions of the CL4s in the department the application is for, which is the same with MTFs and departments. I would honestly say a MTF LT position is harder to get due to slot restrictions, you have to be the best of all available candidates to get that promotion, to get something like exec you have to play for a few weeks actively and write an application which takes maybe an hour.

Also I imagine most departments would just implement their own internal applications so this would change nothing.
-support
 
Alpa said:
Its not like applications are that hard to make for Jr CL4 positions, my first Jr CL4 app which was accepted had at most 3 sentences per section and 4 sentences for the lore, if you can't go through the effort to make something as simple as that you shouldn't be CL4.
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I can do sections/questions but lore is hard for me, if they allowed AI Only for Lore, then i would apply for CL4 roles but i already ended the dream.
 
Average member podidski said:
I can do sections/questions but lore is hard for me, if they allowed AI Only for Lore, then i would apply for CL4 roles but i already ended the dream.
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Yeah I do agree that the lore requirement for Jr CL4 applications is un-needed, though its almost never checked for most departments and doesn't have to bee too high quality.
 
-/+ support

I think keeping cl4s to Application based only is kinda shit, but removing them entirely isnt whats needed in favour of In character looks. Maybe do it in a similar way to How MTFs do promotion requirements. So for example the Srs of that department have a checklist to do of stuff then they can be promoted for it.

Example for GSD captains theres Do like 10 sweeps under Chief or captain supervison. Do 5+ tryouts for HWL and riot. And lead active patrols
 
-SUPPORT

There is a valid reason as to why applications are required over simple promotions and it's an important element I'd say.


When someone writes an application, not only do you see what others ( Typically those below in rank ) have to say and if it's pointless personal arguing you can dismiss it. However, if it's a valid point to be brought up, you can use that to dig deeper and find out what kind of person you're dealing with. It also matters how they reply to this criticism - If it's valid and they reply, you can use that information to determine their maturity.

Other than that, CL4 does a good bit of document writing for IC moments - Stuff like temporary permits, discoveries and especially tests which is why it's good to review people applying for Exec.

Exec. especially is one of the few roles that is heavily based on writing, be it documents, tests, approvals or anything their creative minds come up to.

Other than that, it allows people to carefully observe the individual applying and contrary to what you think - it in fact makes it EASIER to get these positions. Imagine this:

You're barely known CM that's running around the site doing excellent RP and engaging wherever you can but you're simply not memorable and when the time comes, the Consultants choose to rather promote some nobody that they know and like.

How is this fair for you or many other potential medical players? The application puts a magnifying glass on you and lets the people actually observe the great work you do before accepting .. and if you do poorly? Denying.

Friend groups are also likely to form if there is no public forum around to vet these players, although in some instances the forum does fail us too but that's for another reason entirely. This suggestion would make it painfully easy to stack a department with your lads, typically by deception.

Regardless, I ought to finish my yap. The whole point of all of this is that CL4, JR or SR is a big jump even between seniorities and the players must carefully be considered for the role. Their behaviour in game as well as their writing ability and creativity matter so that they don't ruin the experience for the rest.

This suggestion would also harm the community by letting friend groups form which would also take away from the less-known but dedicated individuals.
 
Zen said:
I think that positions like MTF CO need more vetting, and think the others that currently require it are fine as they are.
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It depends on how far you want to go about this 'vetting' - If you're talking about MTFs being stricter on it, I kind of get it but MTFs are very volitile and tend to change rapidly. E.g. E-11 up until recently had a strong CO team and now it's gone, in the span of a week.

But as I said - I sort of agree, there have been moments where I've interacted with people who got MTF / GOC / CI CO and either didn't deserve it, were roster slaves or present mad levels of immaturity and an inability to take criticism ( And I mean actual honest-to-God criticism ).

But if you're asking MTF COs to make applications? Absolutely not. The wider community doesn't need to comment on those and it's entirely up to REGCOM and CO team to discuss.
 
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Acey said:
It depends on how far you want to go about this 'vetting' - If you're talking about MTFs being stricter on it, I kind of get it but MTFs are very volitile and tend to change rapidly. E.g. E-11 up until recently had a strong CO team and now it's gone, in the span of a week.

But as I said - I sort of agree, there have been moments where I've interacted with people who got MTF / GOC / CI CO and either didn't deserve it, were roster slaves or present mad levels of immaturity and an inability to take criticism ( And I mean actual honest-to-God criticism ).

But if you're asking MTF COs to make applications? Absolutely not. The wider community doesn't need to comment on those and it's entirely up to REGCOM and CO team to discuss.
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I personally think CO promos need to be vetted because they influence a regiment, does that make sense? It's a level of responsibility now, you're a LT/MAJ/CPT, not an NCO.

You're a figurehead for the Reg!!!
 
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