Accepted Classify using SCP-914 to farm weapons as FRP

This suggestion has been accepted for future development.
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Cheese Cooper

Well-known Member
Sep 5, 2022
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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
I've only ever played the US server, so this might not be as true for the UK side of things, but here we go:
As the title implies, classify the usage of 914 to farm weapons as FailRP.

As it stands, the rampant abuse of SCP-914 to farm for extremely powerful weapons is creating a divide between normal players and the ones occupying server leadership roles. Every time you see an 05, SA, or EC announce that there's a "private 914 test" occurring, you know damn well they are shoving as much morphine as they can into that thing to get energy weapons for themselves and their respective posse, and it fosters an "us VS them" mentality with players. Normal players who would do such a thing would be subject to arrest by IA, but since these people are so high up on the totem pole (in addition to an entire MTF team that'd protect them from any arrests), they are effectively immune from the consequences of breaking the rules; further driving a wedge between them and the player base at large. Rules for me, but not for thee, is not a healthy way to run a community.

This sort of feeling of immunity extends into other interactions with the player base. Why RP out a scenario with someone, when you can just kill them instead? Is someone being an inconvenience? Why bother with solitary, just send them to the respawn menu! Doesn't matter how many people witness it, they'll just shake their heads and walk away. After all, you're immune, so why even bother speaking up?

This sort of blatant rule-breaking doesn't follow conventional lore either; why would the people in charge of running the foundation flaunt the rules so much? Would doing so not only inspire others to do the same? Should they not set an example for others? I'm sure that a little rule-bending is to be expected, but it seems to almost be a ritual now with many people. Log on, get your A-1/O-1 guards, and hit up 914 to get energy weapons, augurs, and what have you. It's not right.

In addition to this unhealthy divide between our players and the lore concerns, there exists a practical gameplay reason for this as well: Metagaming. Why would you feel the need to gear up your team with such powerful weapons, if there is no threat? By arming their respective guards/teammates with these high-powered weapons, they are prepping themselves to have an advantage against enemies that have yet to materialize yet. Sure, this makes them more effective guards, but it cheapens any combat encounters with them since anyone you fight will be at a massive disadvantage, especially with the recent SL ruling that AA weapons gained with 914 can be used on humans. Yes, that's right, AA weapons gained from 914 can be used on humans. Whatever resemblance of combat balance gets thrown out the window when your entire pose is equipped with the most dangerous weapons obtainable, for the low cost of a few morphine syringes. And it'll be that way every day, all day, unless something changes.

Now, if this does get passed (and I don't think it will since SL has been making some pretty questionable rule decisions recently), it'll be a big step in ensuring that players are held accountable to the same rules that everyone has to follow and would be a great step in mending the divide in our community. Healing that resentment people feel when they see higher-ups break the rules and get away with it. Rules for me, AND rules for thee.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

P.S. While we're here, can we remove the whole "AA weapons from 914 can be used on humans" thing? Why the hell would that be an exception, it's just encouraging this sort of behavior. It's also pretty damn confusing for players not in the know since this isn't written down and instead is being spread word-of-mouth style as seen in the photo below.
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Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
  1. Everyone follows the same rules. There is no more blatant rule-breaking and getting away with it just because you have the number 5 in front of your clearance level instead of a 3.
  2. Combat with the respective groups that currently engage in this sort of behavior will have their balance restored. You'll know what to expect, and they'll know what to expect. And if you want to bring energy weapons into the equation, you better be prepared to lose that investment, as intended.
  3. Having server leaders setting a good example for prospective community members is important. Imagine being told that using the Augur on humans is FailRP, but you see a member of A-1 using it to kill a D-Class. You report it, but since he got it from 914, it's fair. You don't have that opportunity to use SCP-914 (IA would be on your ass so fucking fast), so you feel a bit cheated. By ensuring that SL members follow the rules, or at least make a decent showing at doing so, you can foster a more equal community, one where people will not be afraid to speak up when they see abuses happen just because the abuser is a member of server leadership. No more "It is what it is".

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
  1. I could see people making the argument that this change would be setting a bad precedent for handling IC issues with OOC rules since this is effectively just one big IC issue (legal codex breach). However, I also believe that due to the effective immunity of the players doing these acts, it'll take a server ruling to make them stop. Also, this hasn't stopped staff from making rules on IC issues before so ?‍♂️
  2. D-Class using 914 to get weapons would have to bring in their own stolen guns to upgrade as opposed to tossing in items from their inventory (I want to say I saw a D-Class drop morphine from their inventory, but I honestly never tried it and I don't think anyone else has either. Might be a non-issue.)
  3. CI would need an exception to this rule due to their unique role, as SCP-914 is a powerful tool for them to use and shouldn't be limited to them just for the actions of the foundation staff members abusing it. This could be mitigated by having a set of conditions that must be met before using 914 to farm weapons, such as an active CI/GOC raid, or being a raiding CI/GOC team (although this might result in the two parties just frantically rushing to 914 to see who can get the energy weapon / AA weapon advantage first, instead of the intended effect of limiting its use for these situations. Honestly, CI need the advantage because they get clapped in every raid and only ever make it past FL2 because of the vents)

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Ensuring that there is a healthy respect for the rules at all levels of a community is important. The higher-ups shouldn't get to break the rules just because of their status, as it sets a bad example for other players to follow. Ultimately, accepting this suggestion will be a big step forward in fostering a healthier community on the SCP-RP servers.
 
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John Iceland

Well-known Member
Donator
The people responsible for doing this are commanders and high-level foundation members. OOCly, the staff doesn't care since its an IC issue. Reporting it doesn't lead anywhere. It's like reporting an A-1 for terminating someone, it's your word against theirs and they'll trust their own people over some random every time.
Again, get proof, Fun fact in A_1 we get yelled at for just shooting people, We're being told we arent allowed to do that and get PT'd/Striked if we get reported doing so as its not good RP, Get Evidence and make a report?
 

Darren

Well-known Member
Jul 14, 2022
1,277
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Again, get proof, Fun fact in A_1 we get yelled at for just shooting people, We're being told we arent allowed to do that and get PT'd/Striked if we get reported doing so as its not good RP, Get Evidence and make a report?
Nlr as a rule exists
 

MazuzaM

Well-known Member
Apr 7, 2022
761
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Again, get proof, Fun fact in A_1 we get yelled at for just shooting people, We're being told we arent allowed to do that and get PT'd/Striked if we get reported doing so as its not good RP, Get Evidence and make a report?
Reporting Tech Expert vs A1 with an ARX 160
 

TeKz

Civil Gamers Expert
Aug 26, 2021
92
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-support
So your complaint is the idea that the people who should be protected the most, the people who in reality WOULD have those weapons in an MTF kit, decide to use the strong weapons from 914 in order to protect themselves in the facility. Do you see the flaws in your argument. Yes, people do abuse it when they shouldn't like random tech experts, but that is what E11's job is, and the blame for that type of abuse should be put on the E11. The entire idea of this situations is someone who probably doesn't have access to 914 because their job isn't to protect someone high valued that can use 914. Half of your "Evidence" isn't even people abusing, its just someone who is holding an auger and evidence that cloak had always intended 914 weapons to be used in combat. To sum this up, don't be shit at the game and just join a regiment that has access to 914 weaponry if you really think it is that big of a deal, or just suggest this in character to the SC if you think that everyone shouldn't be using it as much.
 

Harold Hawks

Head Moderator
Head Moderator
SCP-RP Staff
Content Team
Mar 12, 2023
316
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America
+Support

As something of an upcoming IA main, I would absolutely do what I could to prosecute them.
IC, it’s inhumane and unnecessary. A gun is a gun.
OOC, it doesn’t make sense for AA from the armory to be illegal but not 914/Thaumotology.

Also, if you’re gonna implement this rule it should go for everyone including D-Class and CI. There should be no exceptions.
 

Reiner Zufall

Active member
Aug 1, 2022
114
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CI and D class can almost never get to 914 and successfully use it- as far as I know on the UK server one of E-11s POIs is INSIDE OF 914 (meaning they sit inside and guard it) and has been for a long time, unless e11 is so heavily understaffed that they can't fill their POIs there will always be somebody waiting inside of 914, sometimes even two.

Can you honestly tell me the last 5 times you've seen CI or D-class even get disguises, letalone AA WEAPONS they've SUCCESSFULLY USED against foundatoin? Keep in mind for D-class they can't use morphine or any holsterable things, since they can't interact with their inventory. Maybe the situation's different in the US, but in the UK server I honestly don't know the last time CI or D-class have gotten to 914 during peak times, it's always at 2am when there's nobody to stop the d-class that somebody gets out

There's no case of bias here, it's just that CI and D-class never get access to it so you can see. If they did, i'm sure people would 100% support this suggestion because they'll know how annoying it can be to deal with people who use AA weapons against you.
It's an amazing feeling to demolish a wave of CI with a double barrel shotgun & auger you got, but i'm sure you wouldn't be having fun if 12 CI stormed floor 3 with nerve gas and freedoms and immediately killed all of you.
1. We are not allowed to use 914 without perms otherwise you WILL get striked or PTd.
2.Giving d class and CI the freepass the use 914 and foundation not that is bluntly one sided.
3.We do not use AA against you that is still Fail RP (used to be im not sure about this one anymore)
4.Considering how many time CI abused SCPs/Chems/Super potions whatever you did.
What is the point of 914 than if no one is allowed to use it anymore besides CI and D class ?
 

Darren

Well-known Member
Jul 14, 2022
1,277
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1. We are not allowed to use 914 without perms otherwise you WILL get striked or PTd.
2.Giving d class and CI the freepass the use 914 and foundation not that is bluntly one sided.
3.We do not use AA against you that is still Fail RP (used to be im not sure about this one anymore)
4.Considering how many time CI abused SCPs/Chems/Super potions whatever you did.
What is the point of 914 than if no one is allowed to use it anymore besides CI and D class ?
research testing?????? not to be used by a1 to arm their entire reg with energy rifles and miniguns and double barrels
 
1. We are not allowed to use 914 without perms otherwise you WILL get striked or PTd.
2.Giving d class and CI the freepass the use 914 and foundation not that is bluntly one sided.
3.We do not use AA against you that is still Fail RP (used to be im not sure about this one anymore)
4.Considering how many time CI abused SCPs/Chems/Super potions whatever you did.
What is the point of 914 than if no one is allowed to use it anymore besides CI and D class ?

The problem people are trying to address in this thread is that people are getting access to 914 way too often to the point that people are seeing it as abuse.
I have no idea what you mean by abusing SCPs, but super potions and chems take actual effort to find and successfully use- you'll need to spend tens of thousands making chemicals, testing them, and so on. Then you need to get enough for everyone in a mainraid (which is its own annoying task). Overall you're spending hours of real life time and ingame money for one raid that can always screw up horribly.

Comparing that to foundation using 914: spend 5k on morphine, dispense some flareguns, and you're good to go and get god knows how many freedoms, nitro, and augers in a few minutes. Not to mention the fact you have ready access to it, which is the main reason people see it as OP.
Honestly, i think this whole fiasco wouldn't happen if there simply weren't people directly guarding 914, since it's unfun to play against and makes it impossible for anybody else to use- right now to get into 914 it's as hard as getting through a CL4 biometric lock (you'll need to have exec and above to go in and test, and need to pass an ID check from the E11 inside)

Really, I just want E11 out of 914 lol. I'll make a suggestion about it.
 

Reiner Zufall

Active member
Aug 1, 2022
114
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research testing?????? not to be used by a1 to arm their entire reg with energy rifles and miniguns and double barrels
researcher using it themselves for energy guns u can´t tell me that they dispose it after testing? Also like i said we ONLY use it with auth not without.
 

Darren

Well-known Member
Jul 14, 2022
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researcher using it themselves for energy guns u can´t tell me that they dispose it after testing? Also like i said we ONLY use it with auth not without.
not from my experience as a exec research is RP based although im no longer researcher while i was exec we did 914 tests for uhh this servers purpose "Serious Roleplay"
 

Cheese Cooper

Well-known Member
Sep 5, 2022
66
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41
So addressing some of the main points brought up in the comments here again:
  1. Why not arrest them ICly?
    Again, these people are wayyyyyyyyyy above us in the chain of command. They also have an entire MTF dedicated to protecting them, that would 100% gun us down on sight if we so much as brought out handcuffs near them.
  2. How is this any different from superchems?
    The difference between SCP-914 abuse and superchems, is that you need to put effort into getting the chemicals. It'll take time and money to get the powerful items. With SCP-914, you can shove 5k worth of morphine you grinded out with a macro and get insane quantities of the most powerful weapons on the server instantly
  3. But we aren't allowed to do this without permission!
    The point here I'm trying to make is that it's being done too often. Using SCP-914 in response to a threat to get powerful weapons is fine, using SCP-914 before any threat materializes (usually when your higher-ups log in) is not fine.
 

Reiner Zufall

Active member
Aug 1, 2022
114
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not from my experience as a exec research is RP based although im no longer researcher while i was exec we did 914 tests for uhh this servers purpose "Serious Roleplay"
Unfortunately not everyone in the research dpt is using it for research.
Im talking about that what i see daily.
 

Darren

Well-known Member
Jul 14, 2022
1,277
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UK IA can arrest ISD?
fuck man, maybe I've been on the wrong server this entire time
cant ive been IA you get shot by A1 instantly last time i tried i got shoved down the missle Silo when missle silo was a thing
 
+Support
As my entire time of being OSA, or any clearance personnel within Site on UK side, I never saw this happen, which is why this could be changed now if I did hop on. Considering as US is the so said larger portion of the SCP playerbase, even larger than the UK counter-part, this implemention would save both US and UK Site Command Roleplay time, as O5 nor Ethics are Combatant, so they shouldnt have energy weapons whatsoever, other than their sidearm which they spawn with.
A-1 and O-1, sure, somewhat they can, just if they do not abuse 914 for it and actually lose something if they do die.

This can be very easy to implement as well, as A-1 and O-1 are both full of skilled personnel, which giving them an energy weapon they got from an SCP, so they do not lose anything if they die with it is just over-powered i would say on towards of the Site Command and ISD side.



This is just my opinion, and since I am MRP, doesnt matter much :)
 
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