Denied Combat Medic Job-ban on death

[Kito]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Adds a 120s job-ban when a combat medic is killed; Similar to D-Class Scouts/Brutes.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ More people will have fun playing Combat Medic by more slots opening up
+ Combat Medics will be more inclined to not die/rush/be the main combative, focusing more on healing other combatives
+ CI/D-Class/GOC/Whoever else might fight Nu-7/E-11 will have more fun by targeting combat medics, as they wont be able to immediately come back

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Combat Medic mains might loose their position for large stretches of time if they aren't fast enough with switching to CM after death
- It would be easier to tell if you were given a confirmed kill on a Combat Medic(for CI/GOC/Civs/etc.)

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Combat Medics, as it stands currently, are pretty powerful, & generally focus themselves on being the main combatives, including doing GSD's job, or heavily assisting other MTFs. While their combative nature is their only real specialty, they focus on doing just combat more often then not.

Additionally, the Combat Medic role is also very limited(6 slots total), and as such many players often stay on the role for extended periods of time. Job-banning those players when they die would be a balanced, & fair way to allow others to play Combat Medic, similar to D-Class Scouts/Brutes. I see almost no downside with this type of change, aside from Combat Medic mains getting upset they can't stay on their job for 5-8 hours per-day.

 

[Max Henry]

+Support

 

[Michael Walker]

-support

Another nerf to medical can't have that

 

[Kito]

-support

Another nerf to medical can't have that

They spawn with armor in their bunks, a G36, & have legit no restrictions. This doesn't even directly nerf them, lol.

 

[Darren]

everytime i see a combat medic he hsa a typhoon 12 sniper LMG of some sorts

 

[Asp]

+Support
Combat Medic OP Af

 

[Tobi Sallow]

- Support

The problems you have laid out is that CM are 'actively trying to be the 'main combatives' '. And: CM doing the job of GS and heavily assisting MTF's.

I'm sorry, but its literally their job to assist MTF's, and Medical has always supported GSD, they're literally neighbors. It would be absolutely nonsensical to expect Medical to not assist GSD, and punishing the people who play CM by kicking them off of the role, and attempting to force a workaround for a 'nrl timer' is a bit silly.

CM die just as quickly as any other combative role, the only difference is spawn location. The same thing would be getting said about GSD or E-11 if more raids went through SS. CM are no more 'op af' than any other combative role. And they're supposed to be the targets for raids anyway. Raids should always be focusing medics anyway. Thus in turn they would be dying the most, and adding a punishment on top of dying just because of their spawn location is nonsense.
The real mechanic that you're noticing, and the reason this complaint exists at all is that CM aren't bound to stay in one place. They're meant to be able to go through the entire facility to assist any and every combative department as needed, which means they are more consistently seen at shootouts. They're not trying to be 'the main combatives', they're just support.

And to be honest, I don't want to punish that role. Not every. single. individual. combative role needs to be in a regiment or conscripted to never be allowed to leave d-block without minging or directly guarding a researcher. There are only two combative roles that are allowed to assist where needed without having to also sign their irl life away to a regiment. Its good for the health of the server to give opportunities for people to feel like they make a difference in non-passive rp, without them having to sign themselves up into a regiment. And punishing players for not wanting to sign up to a regiment is nonsense.

If you really want to punish these players, and then wait to hear whatever inevitable role CI and D-class mains choose to whine about next, have their spawn location moved.

 

[BoltSive]

+/- Neutral
As the LTCOM of CI, I get what you're saying about them being able to respawn quickly and get back to the battle. The problem i see with this is that it would most likely cause more annoyance in the Medical Department, and many jobs within Foundation/CI/GOC would have to be changed.

 

[SamPaval]

-support.

Then why dont u just do that for all classes so medical doesnt feel singled out.

 

[TeKz]

+Support
The only nerf combat medics had turned into a buff
Just over glorified gensec that have a really overpowered class that needs to be limited
Either add a timer or lower the number of people that can be on combat medic

 

[Kito]

+/- Neutral
As the LTCOM of CI, I get what you're saying about them being able to respawn quickly and get back to the battle. The problem i see with this is that it would most likely cause more annoyance in the Medical Department, and many jobs within Foundation/CI/GOC would have to be changed.

-support.

Then why dont u just do that for all classes so medical doesnt feel singled out.

This only applies to the Foundation Combat Medic role, CI/GOC roles are fine as-is because their role is much different. Combat Medics often just do GSD's job, essentially acting as another CL3 role with 100 armor that spawns closer to D-Block, that also has the ability to heal itself, with a really good AR... There actual intended role is to assist MTFs during CI raids or SCP breaches, rather than be GSD 2.0.

As I said, it isn't that they assist with CI raids/Breaches, but that they die on catwalk, & immediately go straight back to continue being strawberry flavored GSD.

Combat Medics need to be singled out because of where they stand as-is, CI/GOC medics have a purpose & fulfil it, Combat Medics have a purpose & steal GSD's job. It's really annoying for D-Class specifically, as you essentially always have 3-6 MTF in D-Block in the form of Combat Medics.

 

[Kito]

- Support

The problems you have laid out is that CM are 'actively trying to be the 'main combatives' '. And: CM doing the job of GS and heavily assisting MTF's.

I'm sorry, but its literally their job to assist MTF's, and Medical has always supported GSD, they're literally neighbors. It would be absolutely nonsensical to expect Medical to not assist GSD, and punishing the people who play CM by kicking them off of the role, and attempting to force a workaround for a 'nrl timer' is a bit silly.

CM die just as quickly as any other combative role, the only difference is spawn location. The same thing would be getting said about GSD or E-11 if more raids went through SS. CM are no more 'op af' than any other combative role. And they're supposed to be the targets for raids anyway. Raids should always be focusing medics anyway. Thus in turn they would be dying the most, and adding a punishment on top of dying just because of their spawn location is nonsense.
The real mechanic that you're noticing, and the reason this complaint exists at all is that CM aren't bound to stay in one place. They're meant to be able to go through the entire facility to assist any and every combative department as needed, which means they are more consistently seen at shootouts. They're not trying to be 'the main combatives', they're just support.

And to be honest, I don't want to punish that role. Not every. single. individual. combative role needs to be in a regiment or conscripted to never be allowed to leave d-block without minging or directly guarding a researcher. There are only two combative roles that are allowed to assist where needed without having to also sign their irl life away to a regiment. Its good for the health of the server to give opportunities for people to feel like they make a difference in non-passive rp, without them having to sign themselves up into a regiment. And punishing players for not wanting to sign up to a regiment is nonsense.

If you really want to punish these players, and then wait to hear whatever inevitable role CI and D-class mains choose to whine about next, have their spawn location moved.

So you agree that the position is sought after & a lot of players should be in it/ actively playing it. A job-ban on death would allow more people to play it, & put enough pressure on them without directly punishing them.

GSD will likely be getting a rework anyways, but my main issue was not that they were supporting MTFs, or GSD, it's that they don't support them, but act in their place, by not healing MTF, GSD, or whoever they are with, & instead focusing on terminating D-Class almost exclusively. I never see CMs during Code-1s, nor do I see them assist E-11 with Code-3s, 4s, or 5s. They practically live inside D-Block, & act as a straight-upgrade to GSD.

They are supposed to be MEDICAL, not SECURITY. There's a big difference.

 

[SamPaval]

So you agree that the position is sought after & a lot of players should be in it/ actively playing it. A job-ban on death would allow more people to play it, & put enough pressure on them without directly punishing them.

GSD will likely be getting a rework anyways, but my main issue was not that they were supporting MTFs, or GSD, it's that they don't support them, but act in their place, by not healing MTF, GSD, or whoever they are with, & instead focusing on terminating D-Class almost exclusively. I never see CMs during Code-1s, nor do I see them assist E-11 with Code-3s, 4s, or 5s. They practically live inside D-Block, & act as a straight-upgrade to GSD.

They are supposed to be MEDICAL, not SECURITY. There's a big difference.

This sounds like a massive skill issue of high regard.


Currently there fine just target them take them out of the fight every time. And your gonna nerf them cause the players are doing GSDs job that's an IC issue.

This goes for both servers and it could be different on US or UK.

And my brother. CM do help in every code I've seen all 6 help a code 1 to 5 doing there job.

 

[Kito]

This sounds like a massive skill issue of high regard.


Currently there fine just target them take them out of the fight every time. And your gonna nerf them cause the players are doing GSDs job that's an IC issue.

This goes for both servers and it could be different on US or UK.

And my brother. CM do help in every code I've seen all 6 help a code 1 to 5 doing there job.

It isnt a nerf.

They are the equivalent of an MTF unit that can heal themselves.

They do not help in every code, nor do they heal anyone but themselves 95% of the time. I have to beg them to heal me, and even then 9 times out of 10 they get rude with me.

The UK site has significantly less players per-day, around 30-40 less.

Job-banning CMs upon death functions the same as D-Class brutes or scouts dying. Limited slots, on a public role, should have a job-ban if it has a very good ability/utility, in this case that is healing yourself. Brutes has 250hp, so it's justified, Scouts can fully heal themselves once, with 150hp, so its justified, combat medics can fully heal themselves until they go down or die. CMs can also defib other units, & have 100 armor & hp. That is the equivalent of 180hp.

"Skill issue" doesn't apply here.

 

[SamPaval]

It isnt a nerf.

They are the equivalent of an MTF unit that can heal themselves.

They do not help in every code, nor do they heal anyone but themselves 95% of the time. I have to beg them to heal me, and even then 9 times out of 10 they get rude with me.

The UK site has significantly less players per-day, around 30-40 less.

Job-banning CMs upon death functions the same as D-Class brutes or scouts dying. Limited slots, on a public role, should have a job-ban if it has a very good ability/utility, in this case that is healing yourself. Brutes has 250hp, so it's justified, Scouts can fully heal themselves once, with 150hp, so its justified, combat medics can fully heal themselves until they go down or die. CMs can also defib other units, & have 100 armor & hp. That is the equivalent of 180hp.

"Skill issue" doesn't apply here.

Are u playing the same game?

UK is full from 6am to 3pm in the worst Case (cst time) they can only defib once so that's why u target them.

You begging to be healed is all based on the players.

Brudda yes CM do help with codes.

As I've played CM alot I've been to every code Helping MTF.

"Equivalent to MTF" Again just target them this seems like u coping cause u killed a CM and he came back and shredded u.

 

[Tobi Sallow]

So you agree that the position is sought after & a lot of players should be in it/ actively playing it. A job-ban on death would allow more people to play it, & put enough pressure on them without directly punishing them.

GSD will likely be getting a rework anyways, but my main issue was not that they were supporting MTFs, or GSD, it's that they don't support them, but act in their place, by not healing MTF, GSD, or whoever they are with, & instead focusing on terminating D-Class almost exclusively. I never see CMs during Code-1s, nor do I see them assist E-11 with Code-3s, 4s, or 5s. They practically live inside D-Block, & act as a straight-upgrade to GSD.

They are supposed to be MEDICAL, not SECURITY. There's a big difference.

As it was stated previously, the issue you're referring to of CM doing the job for GSD is an IC issue. GSD does need a rework, but slapping a job-ban on medical won't fix the issue with GSD. When GSD does get its rework, then I would say revisit the discussion of CM changes in regards to their relation to GSD.

As for with MTF, I think that's actually a fair point in regards to CM's not healing and doing more shooting. But a job-ban won't fix that. Because, as I stated before, people should be targeting CM's first, whether CM's are shooting or healing. So regardless of whether they were playing the job effectively or not, they would still be receiving the same punishment, a punishment that does not encourage a different kind of behavior.

As for your point about Codes, I wholly disagree. At least on the UK server, CM's regularly assist with every code. Not doing the job in place of MTF's or GSD, but assisting them. If Anything I see MTF's called in to assist with Code-2's more frequently than Captain's make sure to ask for CM assistance.

And I also agree with your point that CM should be medical personnel first and combat personnel second. But as stated before, I don't think the job-ban system would affect this. It would just be punishing people who want to play CM.

If anything, this brings forward that there should be a different role in place of CM's. If such a combative support role were to be implemented, I would then say CM's could be toned down so that they were more medical than combat. But until another such role exists, CM's are just good support to any code. Punishing people who want to put in time and effort into medical to be more useful in combat situations than just another gun in a firing line doesn't help encourage the behavioral/play style change you're looking for.

 

[Kito]

As it was stated previously, the issue you're referring to of CM doing the job for GSD is an IC issue. GSD does need a rework, but slapping a job-ban on medical won't fix the issue with GSD. When GSD does get its rework, then I would say revisit the discussion of CM changes in regards to their relation to GSD.

As for with MTF, I think that's actually a fair point in regards to CM's not healing and doing more shooting. But a job-ban won't fix that. Because, as I stated before, people should be targeting CM's first, whether CM's are shooting or healing. So regardless of whether they were playing the job effectively or not, they would still be receiving the same punishment, a punishment that does not encourage a different kind of behavior.

As for your point about Codes, I wholly disagree. At least on the UK server, CM's regularly assist with every code. Not doing the job in place of MTF's or GSD, but assisting them. If Anything I see MTF's called in to assist with Code-2's more frequently than Captain's make sure to ask for CM assistance.

And I also agree with your point that CM should be medical personnel first and combat personnel second. But as stated before, I don't think the job-ban system would affect this. It would just be punishing people who want to play CM.

If anything, this brings forward that there should be a different role in place of CM's. If such a combative support role were to be implemented, I would then say CM's could be toned down so that they were more medical than combat. But until another such role exists, CM's are just good support to any code. Punishing people who want to put in time and effort into medical to be more useful in combat situations than just another gun in a firing line doesn't help encourage the behavioral/play style change you're looking for.

You aren't getting my point.

People want to play Combat Medics, there are only 6 slots and 128 players. Job-bans on death would not punish players for playing CM, it would only allow other people to play it aside from them. You keep pushing this as if it were a nerf, but I don't see it as a nerf of any kind.

Players often sit in the front-line as a Combat Medic with legit no punishment, focusing 90% on combat, with the remaining 10% on healing just themselves. The reason players are playing as if they are GSD is because they spawn outside of D-Block, have more armor, better equipment, & have no punishment for dying.

Players more focused on healing at the backline for MTFs would die less often that those that sit at the front focusing on combat.
I more often then not see 4-5 CMs either sitting in medbay, or in D-Block.

I hardly see them at HCZ, surface, or assisting MTFs in any really appropriate matter, often just getting in the way or being another gun, refusing to defib or heal players most of the time because shooty shooty.

 

[Kito]

Are u playing the same game?

UK is full from 6am to 3pm in the worst Case (cst time) they can only defib once so that's why u target them.

You begging to be healed is all based on the players.

Brudda yes CM do help with codes.

As I've played CM alot I've been to every code Helping MTF.

"Equivalent to MTF" Again just target them this seems like u coping cause u killed a CM and he came back and shredded u.

First of all, a CM coming back to "shred me" is against the rules so I don't need to complain on the forums about it.

Second of all, job-banning CMs upon death allows other players to be on the role, & encourages them to play safer, rather than letting themselves be targeted.

Third, I don't play UK site so I'll take that L, I'm usually asleep by 6 AM CST. Most of the time I see the UK site it has about 70-80 players.

Fourth, I don't see CMs help very often or effectively during any codes, aside from Code-2 or Code-5(sometimes). I'm guessing thats a US problem, but still, job-bans don't nerf or change the overall abilities of a role, nor does it "punish players" for dying aside from a 2 minute job-ban. Removing the job-bans from D-Class scout or brute wouldn't harm anything aside from not letting other players get into the role.

 

[SamPaval]

First of all, a CM coming back to "shred me" is against the rules so I don't need to complain on the forums about it.

Second of all, job-banning CMs upon death allows other players to be on the role, & encourages them to play safer, rather than letting themselves be targeted.

Third, I don't play UK site so I'll take that L, I'm usually asleep by 6 AM CST. Most of the time I see the UK site it has about 70-80 players.

Fourth, I don't see CMs help very often or effectively during any codes, aside from Code-2 or Code-5(sometimes). I'm guessing thats a US problem, but still, job-bans don't nerf or change the overall abilities of a role, nor does it "punish players" for dying aside from a 2 minute job-ban. Removing the job-bans from D-Class scout or brute wouldn't harm anything aside from not letting other players get into the role.

Your change with affect both servers messing it up for 1 and making it better for the other. And that isnt how things work.

If we go by your logic of "being safer"

Make every single CL3 Cl4 And Cl5 role job banned since u werent being "safe" enough. There combat medics they die and are VERY easy to distinguish.


U dont understand why d class brutes and scouts have a ban on them.

Give them a gun and keycard and there busted. No class has 250-150hp, scp 500, pill and moves very fast. So to balance it out and make it fairer for GSD they have a ban so they cant keep getting out.

Overall your suggestion just hurts CMs health and people would get very annoyed cause they got job banned after a random Cadet RDMed them. Ruining RP and an unfun experience for everyone

 

[Naffen]

-support what are you guys on about ?