Dark RP Raiding Rule Addition

[Valkon]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This would make it so that it is no longer allowed to have someone hiding to continue a raid on a base or the PD.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not to my knowledge.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
It would make raids a little more fair as raiders couldn't negate the raid cooldown by having someone hide until their NLR is over.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
It could make raiding unbalanced in favour of the defenders, especially in the cases of large mega-bases.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
It's a fairly common tactic and it's not easy to defend against. It essentially allows the raiders several attempts at raiding a base, making it considerably more difficult to defend. Often someone will hide nearby the base to continue the raid despite not actively taking part. Similar instances also happen in the PD where someone will hide in a corner.

I think this should be disallowed, basing is already not that ideal in terms of making money and the fact people can continuously come back because someone is hiding is another factor that's offputting to people wanting to base. If a base successfully kills all intruders it should be GGs and 30 mins, not 3 minutes because someone is crouched near the base.

Alternatively, make it so that the raid cooldown applies to the player and not the group raiding. So a player can't re-enter a raid for 30 minutes (15 for PD).

Basing/raiding balance is always very difficult to get right and ideally I think a complete reform is probably best, but for now removing this would make basing a bit more appealing and hopefully will lead to higher player retention.

 

[tony schleck]

-support

there is still a 15min raid timer for bases and if that player is not taking part of the raid he dont count as the raid group
so if they take 16min a refund will be given out already and they get warned for raid timer as its there job to get in and out before that timer​

 

[Valkon]

-support​

​

there is still a 15min raid timer for bases and if that player is not taking part of the raid he dont count as the raid group​

so if they take 16min a refund will be given out already and they get warned for raid timer as its there job to get in and out before that timer​

I don't think you've understood what I've said - people will hide near the base and still be considered as part of the raid, meaning that other raiders can come back after their NLR is up to try again. What I've proposed is making it so that if you die during a raid you can't take part in a raid on the same base again for the duration of the raid cooldown.

It's not about people staying inside the base it's about someone sitting outside and hiding so the others can come back after NLR and continue raiding

 

[tony schleck]

to then to count as part of the raid they have to activly take part of it or they are not considerd of being a part of it further more than 15min raid timer apply untill all players are died or left your base so this gives them barerly anytime to destroy something or they need to use a hax shield what cost alot on avg only 1/10 raids are a succes when they raid me

 

[Chetso]

+SUPPORT
The way it worked on almost every server I've played is "If you die in a raid, you cannot rejoin it" I mean what's the point of the NLR rule if its not actually going to be followed in this circumstance? You're supposed to be a new person with no memory of what happened before you died, so how can you just casually rejoin a raid you died in? Makes no sense... Just add the rule where you cannot rejoin a raid after the NLR timer. Also not allowing people to return to defend their base when the NLR timer is over, It's just messy and confusing and a weird stray from normal DRP that's not really needed.

 

[Chetso]

to then to count as part of the raid they have to activly take part of it or they are not considerd of being a part of it further more than 15min raid timer apply untill all players are died or left your base so this gives them barerly anytime to destroy something or they need to use a hax shield what cost alot on avg only 1/10 raids are a succes when they raid me

To actively take part in a raid, all you need to do is shoot at the base. So in this circumstance, someone will remain in a safe place, usually outside the first door, and shoot in, or through walls. But they'll prioritize not dying so their teammates can return after death. And as far as I'm aware, its allowed, as I've yet to see anyone warned for it.

 

[search]

-support defenders can come back after nlr aswell it isn't something exclusively available to raiders. People not basing has nothing to do with raiders and everything to do with the fact that printers are terrible and miners take a stupid amount of time to even make back the money you spend on them. There's anyways only 2 orgs on the server that actually consistently crim raid, we don't need to nerf raiding if anything the opposite.

 

[Exit]

-Support
As Tony shrek said, raiders have a 15 minute cooldown, and both parties can come back as soon as NLR ends.
Usually raids are harder then defending, it just seems fair that they can come back if they have 1 member in the raid

 

[Valkon]

-Support
As Tony shrek said, raiders have a 15 minute cooldown, and both parties can come back as soon as NLR ends.
Usually raids are harder then defending, it just seems fair that they can come back if they have 1 member in the raid

I'm not disputing that, I'm saying that it shouldn't be allowed to have one person hiding/not shooting as an anchor to return after 3 minutes.

Raiding is meant to be harder than defending, if it wasn't then nobody would be basing (people rarely do anyway). Only real hope is large mega-bases like we see with the MIF bank for people to make money whilst basing, you don't see any small scale 4/5 player bases.

If raiders successfully raid they can charge a large ransom to leave the equipment, it's a fairly large reward (we paid 2 million to Bound after they raided using the hiding player tactic)

 

[Exit]

I'm not disputing that, I'm saying that it shouldn't be allowed to have one person hiding/not shooting as an anchor to return after 3 minutes.

Raiding is meant to be harder than defending, if it wasn't then nobody would be basing (people rarely do anyway). Only real hope is large mega-bases like we see with the MIF bank for people to make money whilst basing, you don't see any small scale 4/5 player bases.

If raiders successfully raid they can charge a large ransom to leave the equipment, it's a fairly large reward (we paid 2 million to Bound after they raided using the hiding player tactic)

There’s not a way to fix this problem though, if raiders just take cover you could say they were “hiding/not shooting as an anchor”.
Making a rule like this is absurd, you can’t tell who would be abusing the rule or not in the middle of the raid, same way as defenders camp inside the base waiting for the other defenders to kill them from the back after NLR.

 

[Exit]

Raiding is meant to be harder than defending, if it wasn't then nobody would be basing (people rarely do anyway). Only real hope is large mega-bases like we see with the MIF bank for people to make money whilst basing, you don't see any small scale 4/5 player bases.

Plus, raiding is already wayyy harder than defending, imagine a 5v5, the defenders who are dead can come back, and those who are raiding are gonna get killed from behind, the raiders kill the flank and come back again, stuck on a loop of killing the flank every time they come, while the rest of the raiders try to get in the base with hex shields.

The example I said can’t be the best, since most raids end before the NLR of the first person who died is over, and using hex shields makes raids end even quicker.

There just isn’t a point of raiding with hex shields since you need at least 3 for the fading doors, 60k+, for what? 30k in printers? Make the defenders lose 180k which is a stupid amount on repair kits.

I do understand your point, BUT,​

adding a rule as you described is not gonna fix anything, it’s just gonna lead to more and more sits complaining, the best way to deal with it is just make as if you die, no more coming back. I’m not a staff member so any of my words could be wrong, take care.

 

[River]

-Support i feel like PD has almost no way to hide if a single officer is outside in the area of the raid you could rush out and end ontop of the 15 minute timer anyways

 

[royalty]

i agree, for players who die there should be an additional timer besides NLR. Raids should not last 30 minutes, if they are then it’s obvious to assume the raiders have made multiple attempts. Maybe just add a raid attempt counter like 2 every 6-10 minutes. Basing is extremely nerfed which is why I think the server is a little low on players. People who had summer holidays would have based for 12 hours a day 2 weeks in a row and know how much they can make from basing, now they don’t have a full day they are pretty much just not bothering at all because they understand you either gotta be there for like 9 hours or there is no point in doing it.

 

[Valkon]

Plus, raiding is already wayyy harder than defending, imagine a 5v5, the defenders who are dead can come back, and those who are raiding are gonna get killed from behind, the raiders kill the flank and come back again, stuck on a loop of killing the flank every time they come, while the rest of the raiders try to get in the base with hex shields.

The example I said can’t be the best, since most raids end before the NLR of the first person who died is over, and using hex shields makes raids end even quicker.

There just isn’t a point of raiding with hex shields since you need at least 3 for the fading doors, 60k+, for what? 30k in printers? Make the defenders lose 180k which is a stupid amount on repair kits.

I do understand your point, BUT,​

adding a rule as you described is not gonna fix anything, it’s just gonna lead to more and more sits complaining, the best way to deal with it is just make as if you die, no more coming back. I’m not a staff member so any of my words could be wrong, take care.

I get your point but realistically if a raid gets past the third door and kills everyone inside there's no chance the defenders are getting back in without counter-raiding, leading to the same issue.

I'd also be fine if repair kits were made less expensive, I'm fine paying it personally but newer players are gonna really struggle after being raided. It's for this reason I tend to leave stuff alone if I've raided a base.

I'd also be completely fine with defenders not being able to return until the raid timer is finished or the raid has ended, whichever comes first (but only if like the first fading door has been passed to stop it being a case of rampantly firing into the building)

 

[Valkon]

-Support i feel like PD has almost no way to hide if a single officer is outside in the area of the raid you could rush out and end ontop of the 15 minute timer anyways

Yeah raiding as PD is hilariously unbalanced unless you have a full team of CGSF. The raiding/basing dynamic is the same as it was before the server closed which is unfortunate, it'd really be beneficial if it was stripped back and reformed.

I get your point but if a PD/raider is hiding then the base may just assume it is over, only to be hit again 3 minutes later. I'd argue it's worse when the PD do it because you get more complacent officers stood outside for ages, leading to raid after raid until they finally get in or everyone is killed.

I'd argue that if they're not actively trying to breach then they shouldn't be considered part of the raid, once everyone who has attempted to breach is dead it should be raid over

 

[Valkon]

i agree, for players who die there should be an additional timer besides NLR. Raids should not last 30 minutes, if they are then it’s obvious to assume the raiders have made multiple attempts. Maybe just add a raid attempt counter like 2 every 6-10 minutes. Basing is extremely nerfed which is why I think the server is a little low on players. People who had summer holidays would have based for 12 hours a day 2 weeks in a row and know how much they can make from basing, now they don’t have a full day they are pretty much just not bothering at all because they understand you either gotta be there for like 9 hours or there is no point in doing it.

Yeah there's no incentive to base anymore, and you have to be part of a larger base in order to have any hope of surviving long enough to make money

 

[49Mr Black]

+Support for a rule forbidding this

This is a grey area issue that shouldn't exist.

 

[Ellie]

Suggestion Pending​

---

Hi @Valkon

Thank you for taking the time to make a server suggestion.

The content team have decided to put this suggestion on hold - we have changes coming to basing that may help solve the issues mentioned in this post - we will revisit this suggestion in the future if needed.