Denied E-11 Breacher and Officer - Weapon Checker

This suggestion has been denied and will not receive development.
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Zen

Zen

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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Give at least one E-11 role the weapon checker SWEP. Possibly Breacher and Officer, but I'll leave the specifics to Content Team.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not that I could find.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
E-11 currently have no way to weapon strip, which would be useful in various scenarios, including:
  • Overseeing sensitive tests, e.g. with 035, we want to check the host for weapons first
  • Finding loose D-class, we want to check them for weapons before we move them
  • If e.g. hacking alerts are going off around HCZ, we may want to check people for TE-5s
  • When detaining someone, regardless of who they are
  • RP stuff, like what is going on today on UK server
  • When extracting a D-class to recontain 035 or 106

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
  • D-class mains complain it's not super easy to kill MTF operatives by pulling an AUG out of their ass that E-11 should have been able to check for but can't
  • Could be abused - we literally give these to Cadets, and even with them this is rarely an issue. I think we can trust E-11 CSG trust with them.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
It is a very useful tool in many situations, which E-11 doesn't have access to at all, which makes no sense when we do things like patrol/guard areas, oversee testing, etc. - we have uses for this quite often, but don't have any jobs with one.
 
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Prplex

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+support
The amount of un weapon checked d class is really surprising. A lot of cadets don't know how to do it or forget. I even see officers doing it. Would be helpful to have one last check although I would recommend sticking it on breacher as then you could have 1 breacher per entrance
 
Kree

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+Support
I think at least 1 E-11 job should have weapon checkers. Considering we are responsible for the security within HCZ and LCZ, we need to be able at least strip weapons off people who shouldn't have them. Especially when GSD just completely forget to strip weapons off dclass sometimes.
 
Sceptre

Sceptre

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- Support
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with how devastating 035 tests can go if the D-Class has a weapon, this is simply not the way to combat this. If given to the Officer job, are you expecting a CO to be flagged on in order to do an 035 test, or expecting them to come all the way to the test to weaponcheck the D-Class?

GENSEC have a responsibility to weapon check, if they don't, thats on them - ask the escort to weapon check them (they should have a GSD escort with them).

Furthermore, to the rest of your points:
Zen said:
  • Overseeing sensitive tests, e.g. with 035, we want to check the host for weapons first
  • Finding loose D-class, we want to check them for weapons before we move them
  • If e.g. hacking alerts are going off around HCZ, we may want to check people for TE-5s
  • When detaining someone, regardless of who they are
  • RP stuff, like what is going on today on UK server
  • When extracting a D-class to recontain 035 or 106
Click to expand...

If you find a loose D-Class, simply return them and ask GSD to weapon-check them. Furthermore, same point stands, are you going to ask a officer to come over to search them every time?

If you have hacking alerts, you can ID Check or simply attempt to locate the hacking. In most cases, a disguised hacker wouldn't have a perfect ID, or would be acting suspicious.

Detaining someone does not warrant a random search.

Extracting a D-Class is a valid point, although the D-Class should simply remain cuffed at all times.
 
Zen

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Bill Nye The Guy said:
-support discourages cross-regiment activities among other downsides
Click to expand...
What kind of quality cross-department/regiment interactions do you think will come from us having to call a random GSD to HCZ to weapon check someone? As it is, we just don't, and hope we haven't missed something, because it'd take longer to call someone who has one than just dragging them all the way to interro/D-block for someone else to deal with and leaving.
 
Emilia Foddg

Emilia Foddg

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+Major Support
i will never understand the mindset of whoever decides the final loadouts, honestly

i don't mind like if they were in a dispenser for 30 minute cooldown or even just in the armoury, even if it was also at CL4 - but that sort of thing's been denied before ,despite the situations it would fix and the interesting situations it would create. hell, i wouldn't mind if weapon checkers were in AA

but i'm not sure what benefit is created by E-11 jobs just not having weapon checkers - or what would be taken away if they were to be given one

yes, we should interact with other roles, but not to the point where we're relying on them for like minute little things that generally don't really need the trouble of going to do that, with. the -support on this is kinda wild; like the whole "no need" because you "can just take them to someone else that has a weapon checker" really only serves to slow RP in this situation. like yes, in situation where there was a gensec escort in the first place - you can just have that escort strip the weapons. but in situations where someone is found in HCZ by just E-11, you have to detain and drag them to interro while still armed, hoping they'll not failrp the strip bind?

give us the damn MRP strip swep already :mad:
Jack Cader Raider said:
Breacher job does not need a weapon checker, as it is not their job to check perople for weapons.
Click to expand...
...breacher still has the regular duties of an E-11. being on breacher instead of any other E-11 job, does not make them any less of an E-11. this is not a good take.
Geronimo said:
If you find a loose D-Class, simply return them and ask GSD to weapon-check them. Furthermore, same point stands, are you going to ask a officer to come over to search them every time?
Click to expand...
honestly, zen's post above applies. this is just circus-level tomfoolery that simply does not need to happen - again, i don't get why staff are so insistent on making us jump through the hoops and do the dance of "go on a hunt for one of these specific people if you want to do this one specific part of your job," it's quite frankly, psychotic
Geronimo said:
Detaining someone does not warrant a random search.
Click to expand...
yes it does
 
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grunger

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AFAIK the reason weapon checkers and other such miscellaneous utilities aren't given to every combative role is because of balance and role, including encroaching on other departments' roles such as GENSEC's. You could argue that double-checking would logically make sense, but gameplay balance doesn't adhere to logic. Have to trust GENSEC as part of the process, or you gradually end up with a useless department. Otherwise, I would like to see more utility given to E11 such as the weapon checker.

+
 
Flames

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+support

The content team always approached this as a gameplay balance issue and particularly AFAIK from my time of being in content, always denied.

This can be combatted with the simple /me checks weapons but in reality, no one does that because no one bothers to or cares enough.
(The likelihood of you finding someone who will actually RP this is close to none, coming from my experience)
Nonetheless, everyone should be able to check weapons without the restrictions of a weapon swep.
The fact no one can weapon check besides the few jobs with a swep has always been a joke.
Moreover, the fact that MTF can interrogate, yet the Security Department excluding a few select jobs is also a joke, everyone should be able to strip a keycard and search for weapons, balance issue or not. This is an RP server and people should be provided the tools to properly RP.

You can go at this from several RP perspectives, namely in the case of E-11 or any CL5 Task force respectively, and I seriously cannot be asked to list or write them down
 
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XThomas

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Aug 21, 2022
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Lightsoulist said:
-support you dont need it you guard HCZ not lcz and aren't meant for general security
Click to expand...
E-11 guards HCZ as well as patrols lcz. E11 is legit a security. they are the reason holding back any kinda hacking going on in hcz.

+support this
 
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