Partially Accepted Filing Cabinet Access Rework

[Zen]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Reworks document cabinet access to work via VKeycards, with all of its options available. Meaning:

• Cabinets can have varying clearance levels, as they already have
• Cabinets can be biometric or not - so stealing documents might sometimes be actually possible
• Job overrides are an option - e.g. a cabinet could be CL4, with overrides for Senior Doctor, Combat Medic, etc. for a medical cabinet
  • Have the visual element for the cabinet clearance level be editable or something, to indicate this more clearly - e.g. a cabinet might say "Medical" in red text, instead of "CL4", if the cabinet was set to the above example

To clarify: you wouldn't need to hold out your keycard to open the cabinet, it would just open based on what keycards you had on you.

Separately, but related, two additional changes to the cabinets:

• Better cabinet name editing
  • It can currently be made too long, in which case it goes out of the text box and looks stupid and unreadable
  • Possibly either a name length limit in the editor, or some kind of text wrapping or something for longer names (e.g. text goes onto up to 3 lines, rather than one small-ass line)
• Allow individual drawers in the same set of cabinets to have different clearance levels
  • Currently, to my knowledge, you can only change the clearance level by the cabinet, not per drawer

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not that I am aware of. The forums are also extremely broken right now, so I'm not even going to try to search for it.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):

• If non-biometric cabinets exist, they can actually be feasible to steal from by opposing factions
  • Right now, this is literally only possible via kidnapping someone and forcing them to do this
• By using specific job overrides, different cabinets can be restricted to specific departments and the like, preventing snooping and document griefing/theft
  • Right now, literally any Foundation job can just walk into any room with a CL1 filing cabinet and steal every single document in it. This is absurd, and the only current way to prevent this is to make the cabinet a higher clearance and have a higher job deal with moving things in and out of cabinets.
• If multiple clearance level drawers are needed, you only need to have the number of drawers/cabinets that you actually need, rather than at least one full cabinet per clearance level
• Better drawer naming/customisation prevents broken text labels, and allows better clarity
  • E.g. a drawer might now be labelled "Incident Reports" without it turning into something like "dent Repo"
• Better document features -> more document creation -> more RP

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

• Allowing non-bio cabinets would make document stealing/griefing easier
  • This would simply be an option - it might not be used, or it might only be used for certain cabinets
• Cabinet access might become confusing if job overrides are used a lot
  • This is why I mentioned allowing the clearance tag to be customised - to provide clarity as to who can open a drawer

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Document cabinets are currently very simple and way too open. Anyone on any job, regardless of department, can just wander in and steal all your documents or fill your cabinets with rubbish if they're the right clearance level. This is especially bad on cabinets with low clearance levels like CL1/2. Improving them like this would reduce this issue, and also just generally make them a lot more usable for everyone.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

+Support
IMO, this is a particularly compelling idea - It makes both document gameplay and associated raids both more viable and potentially interesting. If this is reasonably worth the effort to implement, I don't see why not. My understanding is that VComputers does struggle with its place in the server right now and feels a lot like an odd one out in terms of engaging server content - As well as having some hassle surrounding abuse of it (Remember the documents guy? And now we have decay timers on all our dropped documents? Thanks documents guy). There are existing elements of VComputers that do already interact with VKeycards, such as how cabinets are presently, as well as terminals and SCIPnet review. I don't see this as completely unreasonable, but I could understand if such document gameplay isn't particularly that much of a focus right now and may not be worth development focus to pursue and/or potentially just have something sitting in the backlog?

I don't know, I feel like I'm reaching a little. Should be fine?

 

[Niox]

+Support

 

[Tylenol Smith]

make ranger filing cabinets lockable aswell do to it messing RP up if we can’t even have docs in it because GOC takes em all

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

I dont this is a good idea. It ruins the point of general raid protections and CI are well known to remove a lot of rp around site by stealing documents for no reason other than to "cause chaos" which yes, is their goal however it promotes zero roleplay and doesnt allow people to have fun if all their hard work is gone. Imagine if CI DC's raid the exec office and steal / destroy all of the documents relating to projects that have signatures and loads of work going into them.

HOWEVER, I could see CI doing something where they mainraid to steal files and then try to exfil them, if they exfil them to their base and defend them for some time (60 mins - 48 hours?) without losing the files or them getting dammaged, they would then get some random intel which are COPIES of the original documents found in the drawers.

 

[Shark]

If I trusted the overall community to not immediately abuse this change, this would be cool. For now though? No.

 

[Cain_Morris14]

Same reason as shark -Support

 

[Niox]

and CI are well known to remove a lot of rp around site by stealing documents for no reason other than to "cause chaos"

This is directly FailRP. Feel free to report any cases to a CI CO alongside some form of evidence.
"3.09(a) Raiding Protections - No parties may destroy documentation, you may only destroy documentation relating to your faction. You can steal important documents for usage."

Quite frankly, intel RP has always been shit. Everything is put into Cabinets in which no one in the world can access. Your point also falls apart when you realise Class F'ed individuals can already do this.

HOWEVER, I could see CI doing something where they mainraid to steal files and then try to exfil them, if they exfil them to their base and defend them for some time (60 mins - 48 hours?) without losing the files or them getting dammaged, they would then get some random intel which are COPIES of the original documents found in the drawers.

I don't see any RP explanation for how this would occur really, nor how possible this would be to add.

 

[Zen]

make ranger filing cabinets lockable aswell do to it messing RP up if we can’t even have docs in it because GOC takes em all

It would also be good to have something like this.

I dont this is a good idea. It ruins the point of general raid protections and CI are well known to remove a lot of rp around site by stealing documents for no reason other than to "cause chaos" which yes, is their goal however it promotes zero roleplay and doesnt allow people to have fun if all their hard work is gone. Imagine if CI DC's raid the exec office and steal / destroy all of the documents relating to projects that have signatures and loads of work going into them.

HOWEVER, I could see CI doing something where they mainraid to steal files and then try to exfil them, if they exfil them to their base and defend them for some time (60 mins - 48 hours?) without losing the files or them getting dammaged, they would then get some random intel which are COPIES of the original documents found in the drawers.

If I trusted the overall community to not immediately abuse this change, this would be cool. For now though? No.

Same reason as shark -Support

Please actually read the full suggestion before replying. Having cabinet access be non-bio would be an option which SA+ could configure on cabinets, not necessarily one that would be used or common. If people wanted the same current document raid protections as there are now, SA could simply keep all cabinets locked to biometrics. The rest of the change would just allow better configurability, e.g. only letting medical CL1+ jobs access documents, rather than every CL1 as it is now.

 

[Starling6]

this would be a pain in the ass to set a filing cabinet up

otherwise, big fan

add presets

 

[Bananolas]

+Support

 

[Emilia Foddg]

I dont this is a good idea. It ruins the point of general raid protections and CI are well known to remove a lot of rp around site by stealing documents for no reason other than to "cause chaos" which yes, is their goal however it promotes zero roleplay and doesnt allow people to have fun if all their hard work is gone. Imagine if CI DC's raid the exec office and steal / destroy all of the documents relating to projects that have signatures and loads of work going into them.

HOWEVER, I could see CI doing something where they mainraid to steal files and then try to exfil them, if they exfil them to their base and defend them for some time (60 mins - 48 hours?) without losing the files or them getting dammaged, they would then get some random intel which are COPIES of the original documents found in the drawers.

If I trusted the overall community to not immediately abuse this change, this would be cool. For now though? No.

Same reason as shark -Support

Having cabinet access be non-bio would be an option which SA+ could configure on cabinets, not necessarily one that would be used or common. If people wanted the same current document raid protections as there are now, SA could simply keep all cabinets locked to biometrics.

To add onto this and to nip the potential argument of abuse in the bud, the positions of Senior Admin and higher are at the level of trust that anyone that would deliberately abuse cabinet configuration to ruin document RP generally don't get to said positions in the first place, unless... Idk, they were pulling a really long con.
Honestly IMO hot take, but if you do a long con type stunt to do one very specifically petty thing with a new power you get at SL+ levels, you should just be allowed that But only once.
Yes, I know, NL... You're looking at my card... Yes. Thank you. I'm well aware of how that looks. I will offer no defence.

 

[Shark]

It would also be good to have something like this.




Please actually read the full suggestion before replying. Having cabinet access be non-bio would be an option which SA+ could configure on cabinets, not necessarily one that would be used or common. If people wanted the same current document raid protections as there are now, SA could simply keep all cabinets locked to biometrics. The rest of the change would just allow better configurability, e.g. only letting medical CL1+ jobs access documents, rather than every CL1 as it is now.

I read it, it's great if I actually need to protect documents. But, what is actually going to be stored in lower clearance, unsafe document cabinets if they could be potentially stolen? I leave red herring documents for the sake of roleplay on my corkboard in the intention of them being stolen to create roleplay. Most new players and otherwise don't have this same luxury. And for most experienced players, it's a wee bit disheartening to see your document just immediately stolen without even the purpose of creating some roleplay. You could theoretically regulate stealing with Senior Admins+ but you are living in a perfect world if you truly think that the threat of the staff team will be able to solve that issue.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

I read it, it's great if I actually need to protect documents. But, what is actually going to be stored in lower clearance, unsafe document cabinets if they could be potentially stolen? I leave red herring documents for the sake of roleplay on my corkboard in the intention of them being stolen to create roleplay. Most new players and otherwise don't have this same luxury. And for most experienced players, it's a wee bit disheartening to see your document just immediately stolen without even the purpose of creating some roleplay. You could theoretically regulate stealing with Senior Admins+ but you are living in a perfect world if you truly think that the threat of the staff team will be able to solve that issue.

I mean, it will probably just go the same way of chem fridges. There are publicly accessible chem fridges to the majority of the playerbase and of course, no-one stores anything valuable in them other than beakers.

I would wager that after... Well, any major VComputers change involving documents, you'll get a brief but significant uptick in abuse because... People are just like that, but that in itself I don't think is an excuse to not make the change - When you reduce it down to its base components, moderation is unfortunately just an endless game of whack-a-mole (The hard levels are when people find the grey areas, faulty loopholes and dealing with uncharted territory! Fun! ) and new things will just make more rulebreakers pop out of the woodwork. So from a perspective of looking at encouragement, I see why this might pose an issue - People make some really fucking stupid documents and they'd likely just fill the cabinets with them... And to be honest, if people are going to do it anyway, you'd rather they'd stuff them in some cabinet for them then to be found later and punished as they would be if they left them literally anywhere else. But I can understand the hesitancy of providing something that could potentially encourage that kind of behaviour?

But ultimately the solution here to avoid all that is to just... Not have any 'unsafe' document cabinets. And I don't think, outside of the document raid example where it seems stupid to have to Class F someone to make them take out documents so you can do your intel raid, that @Zen is particularly advocating for the existence of open cabinets that just anyone can take anything from. This would mostly be QoL changes for cabinets.

ALTHOUGH -
One way you could get around this conundrum (Keep random minges from stealing things and stuffing open cabinets full of abusive documents, while enabling cross-faction intel gameplay) is to have faction-specific access flags and then apply them to have each other faction's cabinets (F have CI & GOC access flags, CI have F & GOC, GOC have F & CI - Doesn't have to be every cabinet, although tbh I don't see why not - Plus not doing so would make people game the system "Oh don't keep it in that cabinet, that's a raidable one." So it's a little tricky IMO, I can see how this can be a problem - But basically the idea is that cabinets that are biometric are only biometric for that faction? If that makes sense. So you'd still need the keycard to do an intel raid), so that even though say, random minge Tech Expert Joe can't just waltz into medical and FailRP the psych evals out of the DoR's office, but a CI intel raid that follows the existing rules on document stealing, would (Which IIRC means they can only take documents relevant to them or their interests? I feel like those rules need a little tweaking so that they can do proper intel raids, because to my understanding, if CI want to say, try and find out what kind of projects Site Command might be up to, they're not allowed to just raid into Ethics/F3, randomly grab and copy a bunch of documents, then exfil? @Niox can you confirm this? Never mind, read the rule again, it's specific to document destruction and thus is sufficient for these purposes. A rule change is not needed. I do particularly enjoy that it specifically says "You can steal important documents for usage." Despite that aspect in-game being very mechanically frustrated for no real good reason.).

This would limit the people that need to potentially be moderated for any document shenanigans to DEA, Nu7, CI & GOC - All of which, at least in my experience, will definitely internally be able to properly (for the most part) get people to not abuse this and if they do, can reasonably raise this as a FailRP concern (plus any internal punishments. Similar things are already in place. For example, CI are able to raid, but you can't simply just randomly go onto a CI character, walk into the Site and start blasting. This one I know empirically.)

EDIT: To prevent downtime abuse, lock factions out of other factions' cabinets when population drops below a certain threshold. Said threshold should be based on number of players presently online on the faction, rather than on total server player count - Otherwise this purely disadvantages CI & GOC.

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

But, what is actually going to be stored in lower clearance, unsafe document cabinets if they could be potentially stolen?

To list some examples:

>Work program documents in a CL3 drawer, accessible to Officers and Sergeants to use
>Medical Forms, such as prescriptions etc that can be signed off on
To summarise some, general RP documents that the average player will have saved to their clipboard but may wish to use.

Beyond that:
>Copys of tests in RSD wing, allows RSD to read about tests and the chance of GOIs getting that info
>Arrest Reports
>Personnel files

Beyond this, it should be noted that documents can be made sticky.
So a doc can be CL1 to read but CL4 to take, which I have found useful for saving guide docs and such.

 

[Skinner]

I dont this is a good idea. It ruins the point of general raid protections and CI are well known to remove a lot of rp around site by stealing documents for no reason other than to "cause chaos" which yes, is their goal however it promotes zero roleplay and doesnt allow people to have fun if all their hard work is gone. Imagine if CI DC's raid the exec office and steal / destroy all of the documents relating to projects that have signatures and loads of work going into them.

HOWEVER, I could see CI doing something where they mainraid to steal files and then try to exfil them, if they exfil them to their base and defend them for some time (60 mins - 48 hours?) without losing the files or them getting dammaged, they would then get some random intel which are COPIES of the original documents found in the drawers.

Why do people just cry and cry and cry and soy and complain all the time instead of reporting things….

I think document raiding is a staple to what Intelligence units do, and it’s a huge gathering of information at the end. Only one issue is, you can either do the following as a Deep Cover (already so limited);

- Steal off corkboards
- Steal off people that carry the documents (very rare)
- Use a downtime agent to steal docs for you (also very rare, close to zero cases of this ever done)

So it would be nice having a method to crack filing cabinets once a while and raid for docs across the space of the site (O5, DEA, Research)
+Support

 

[Jonas Enry]

plus souo

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

make ranger filing cabinets lockable aswell do to it messing RP up if we can’t even have docs in it because GOC takes em all

Ah yes. Can't wait for Rangers to lock an infobreach document in the cabinets so they can immediately read it after getting Killed/Amnesticated.

 

[Shark]

To list some examples:

>Work program documents in a CL3 drawer, accessible to Officers and Sergeants to use
>Medical Forms, such as prescriptions etc that can be signed off on
To summarise some, general RP documents that the average player will have saved to their clipboard but may wish to use.

Beyond that:
>Copys of tests in RSD wing, allows RSD to read about tests and the chance of GOIs getting that info
>Arrest Reports
>Personnel files

Beyond this, it should be noted that documents can be made sticky.
So a doc can be CL1 to read but CL4 to take, which I have found useful for saving guide docs and such.

Work program documents are already stored properly by those who can authorize them.
Medical forms and prescriptions both have a hardcopy and also exist on the SCIPNET.

Copies of existing tests are already in cabinets. So are arrest reports, so are some personnel files for those who choose to make them.

These documents all already exist and a good number of them are made purely for roleplay sake. Taking documents is fine in theory provided it's with the intent of actually creating interesting roleplay but I don't see it being regulated.

The point of my previous reply wasn't to say "This won't be used." I'm saying "This will be very easily abused." Once again, if you truly think the threat of staff will stop people, I wish you could see the warns and bans I see as an SGM.

 

[Zack Baker]

+Support
Good idea but maybe document stealing could be only authed by SL+ or something.