Is SCPRP Drifting Too Far Towards Combat?

[Auburn]

I have a question about this, did a bio keypad in 914 closet affect CI raids that much to the point it was removed in a few days?

It absolutely did. But it caused a lot of annoyance as a side effect. It was a bandaid fix to the problem the supers came up with (quite creatively to give it credit), but the Breach Delay Update solved a lot of the CI issues a lot more cleanly so it was removed.

 

[Auburn]

I will not answer JJ chem but i can answer on JJ mod question:
When i saw him in TS3 having TMOD role, i asked him why and how he got it. He told me that and i quote "trying it so i will see if i would like it". I'm not gonna point finger at him but note that he never made any mod app.

To be fair to johnson, basically everyone in NL has tried to recruit him into staff. He's a very well known player that knows how every single aspect of the server and how it works. His viewpoint and perspective was already held in very high regard (as is every prominent RP lead in the community when we have changes or problems we'd like to discuss)

Johnson is a special case as he doesn't use a mic, he would need permission to become staff regardless. We're approaching him to become staff, we wouldnt force him to make an app when we initiated the conversation.

Johnsons position in staff isn't relevant to a discussion about server health and roleplay/combat prevalence.

 

[Driver]

i like combat

 

[CherryBones]

To be fair to johnson, basically everyone in NL has tried to recruit him into staff. He's a very well known player that knows how every single aspect of the server works. His viewpoint and perspective was already held in very high regard (as is every prominent RP lead in the community when we have changes or problems we'd like to discuss)

Johnson is a special case as he doesn't use a mic, he would need permission to become staff regardless. We're approaching him to become staff, we wouldnt force him to make an app when we initiated the conversation.

Johnsons position in staff isn't relevant to a discussion about server health and roleplay/combat prevalence.

Yes it is. Yes it absolutely is. Any bias in moderation is a problem. When the conversation is 'does the SCPRP lean too heavy into combat?' and the biggest combative group of the server just magically has their commander become a mod because NL likes him that shows a disgusting amount of favoritism. You all know he would've got it with an application but if he didn't want to put one in he shouldn't be a mod. Now that he is, with no application and running one of the largest combat factions of the server, how can anyone ever be sure that the changes made both past and present weren't done because people like JJ/CI and wanna make them happy? We can't. Hell I don't even dislike JJ. He's been part of the fun RP I've had with CI and I like JJ on an individual level, but it doesn't matter if he's liked. He should not be given a role just because he's an enjoyable dude that wants to help the server.

JJ isn't the only one with a favoritism issue. I see even close friends of mine who have a 'favorite mod/admin' they like to DM to get their issues fixed and I call them all cringe. I'm not saying I want moderation and leadership to be friendless and detached but when bias is blatant it's a concern. Multiple people have complained about the combat (mostly involving CI) and rule changes (let GSD use teargas on CI again/make CI reinstate their old rule of not killing noncombatants), and content changes/additions (like CI grenadier, but when other MTF want it it's denied). The issue isn't just JJ. It's what looks like blatant favoritism. Unfortunately because ya'll like JJ so much you just gave him the mod role he is now the lighting rod of criticism whether ya'll like it or not. And now that it's been confirmed mod is given out to people without an app even if JJ makes an app it will be memed to filth and SL/NL will continue to get side eyes.

 

[Auburn]

Yes it is. Yes it absolutely is. Any bias in moderation is a problem. When the conversation is 'does the SCPRP lean too heavy into combat?' and the biggest combative group of the server just magically has their commander become a mod because NL likes him that shows a disgusting amount of favoritism. You all know he would've got it with an application but if he didn't want to put one in he shouldn't be a mod. Now that he is, with no application and running one of the largest combat factions of the server, how can anyone ever be sure that the changes made both past and present weren't done because people like JJ/CI and wanna make them happy? We can't. Hell I don't even dislike JJ. He's been part of the fun RP I've had with CI and I like JJ on an individual level, but it doesn't matter if he's liked. He should not be given a role just because he's an enjoyable dude that wants to help the server.

JJ isn't the only one with a favoritism issue. I see even close friends of mine who have a 'favorite mod/admin' they like to DM to get their issues fixed and I call them all cringe. I'm not saying I want moderation and leadership to be friendless and detached but when bias is blatant it's a concern. Multiple people have complained about the combat (mostly involving CI) and rule changes (let GSD use teargas on CI again/make CI reinstate their old rule of not killing noncombatants), and content changes/additions (like CI grenadier, but when other MTF want it it's denied). The issue isn't just JJ. It's what looks like blatant favoritism. Unfortunately because ya'll like JJ so much you just gave him the mod role he is now the lighting rod of criticism whether ya'll like it or not. And now that it's been confirmed mod is given out to people without an app even if JJ makes an app it will be memed to filth and SL/NL will continue to get side eyes.

The Gensec TearGas ruling was made because of a discussion with the CI Leadership on the USA server. UK had nothing to do with that.

CI's rule of killing non combatants is in a good place, and SSL are fine with how they handle it during raids. If you have an issue with a CI coming up to you and destroying your RP for no benefit, they will take your report and handle it. If they dont you can expect SL to act for you and make sure it doesnt happen again. CI have been told time and time again that MRDM is not an acceptable reason for raiding, and that they must have an actual goal both before and during the raid.

The majority of times we talk to people in the community its because its a change affecting their group and they know it best. We obviously dont just do what they ask us to, thats stupid and very open to abuse. Any time we talk to members of the community we separate what is factual from what is a biased viewpoint. Johnson is not the exception to that.

I don't think im going to be making much progress in convincing you otherwise here, but we made johnson staff because we felt he would do a good job. Yes we ask for and respect his opinion and views on the server and on changes we have planned. No we don't treat his word as gospel, and no he does not run the server from the shadows. We run the server, with SSL and the SL Team there day to day to make sure things are running smoothly. And very frequently, we've told Johnson (and other RP leaders that we invite into discussions) "Tough shit, this has to be done" or "Thats intended, you're supposed to struggle in this situation" and they have to deal with that.

If you think we make content changes to keep CI happy, one glance through the changelogs channel would quickly quash that belief with the amount of direct and indirect CI nerfs from every corner of the SL team.

 

[Tay]

Yes it is. Yes it absolutely is. Any bias in moderation is a problem. When the conversation is 'does the SCPRP lean too heavy into combat?' and the biggest combative group of the server just magically has their commander become a mod because NL likes him that shows a disgusting amount of favoritism. You all know he would've got it with an application but if he didn't want to put one in he shouldn't be a mod. Now that he is, with no application and running one of the largest combat factions of the server, how can anyone ever be sure that the changes made both past and present weren't done because people like JJ/CI and wanna make them happy? We can't. Hell I don't even dislike JJ. He's been part of the fun RP I've had with CI and I like JJ on an individual level, but it doesn't matter if he's liked. He should not be given a role just because he's an enjoyable dude that wants to help the server.

JJ isn't the only one with a favoritism issue. I see even close friends of mine who have a 'favorite mod/admin' they like to DM to get their issues fixed and I call them all cringe. I'm not saying I want moderation and leadership to be friendless and detached but when bias is blatant it's a concern. Multiple people have complained about the combat (mostly involving CI) and rule changes (let GSD use teargas on CI again/make CI reinstate their old rule of not killing noncombatants), and content changes/additions (like CI grenadier, but when other MTF want it it's denied). The issue isn't just JJ. It's what looks like blatant favoritism. Unfortunately because ya'll like JJ so much you just gave him the mod role he is now the lighting rod of criticism whether ya'll like it or not. And now that it's been confirmed mod is given out to people without an app even if JJ makes an app it will be memed to filth and SL/NL will continue to get side eyes.

Hello, in regards to the comment about Johnson's admission to TMod being biased, I'd like to chime in.

It wasn't an NL decision; it was a decision I made as part of my effort to try to bump up overall staff levels on the UK. If you're not aware, we've been having problems with encouraging players to join the staff team, and one of those problems we noticed was that people either thought staff would be too much work on top of their RP positions, or they would have to focus on staff over more enjoyable in-game activities. Over the past month, I have made efforts to try and turn this around, encouraging SL to be more relaxed with staff members who have their requirements, and to not badger them to take sits unless necessary. The idea being, you're allowed to simply play the game and have fun- not burn yourself out doing tons of staff stuff beyond your requirements.

And of course, the third pillar to this was looking into long-time players who have never applied for staff, yet were very capable, and seeing just why they haven't.

Now, where does this tie into with Johnson? Simple, he was one of those players I reached out to, and his reasons for never applying were the following: he wanted to focus on CI and not have staff become his sole priority- I helped put these concerns to bed with my earlier efforts above; and his other concern was over the application itself.

Now, applications exist so SL can vet players who come into the staff team. It is a basic vetting, and the more in-depth stuff happens during the trial period. Now, this system works for someone we don't know much about, but for a player with a long-standing presence within the community? It is really just a tick box. So I waved it for Johnson, because what will an application tell me that I don't already know from three years of interactions?

The idea that Johnson received some unique exemption is false. In my search to try and encourage players into the staff team, I also offered other long time players that I trusted the same position, Pennington, being the current O5-1, was another player offered the fast-track into TMod as I trusted him, and him being very vocal regarding his thoughts on the server meant that I could rely on him to speak up and provide a strong viewpoint based on his valued experienced. He sadly rejected this offer, but the point stands.

Johnson is not unique in receiving the offer; he is unique in being the only one to have accepted it (thus far).

 

[KLua]

I love CI and CI updates.... What can I say there's nothing easier than a CI buff... Thinking of an update for RSD or anything RP related is hard like what are we supposed to give them? But when it comes to CI its so easy as you can just give them a gun and they are happy

 

[Driver]

I love CI and CI updates.... What can I say there's nothing easier than a CI buff... Thinking of an update for RSD or anything RP related is hard like what are we supposed to give them? But when it comes to CI its so easy as you can just give them a gun and they are happy

but you choose to nerf ci..... ci is now sad

 

[CherryBones]

Hello, in regards to the comment about Johnson's admission to TMod being biased, I'd like to chime in.

It wasn't an NL decision; it was a decision I made as part of my effort to try to bump up overall staff levels on the UK. If you're not aware, we've been having problems with encouraging players to join the staff team, and one of those problems we noticed was that people either thought staff would be too much work on top of their RP positions, or they would have to focus on staff over more enjoyable in-game activities. Over the past month, I have made efforts to try and turn this around, encouraging SL to be more relaxed with staff members who have their requirements, and to not badger them to take sits unless necessary. The idea being, you're allowed to simply play the game and have fun- not burn yourself out doing tons of staff stuff beyond your requirements.

And of course, the third pillar to this was looking into long-time players who have never applied for staff, yet were very capable, and seeing just why they haven't.

Now, where does this tie into with Johnson? Simple, he was one of those players I reached out to, and his reasons for never applying were the following: he wanted to focus on CI and not have staff become his sole priority- I helped put these concerns to bed with my earlier efforts above; and his other concern was over the application itself.

Now, applications exist so SL can vet players who come into the staff team. It is a basic vetting, and the more in-depth stuff happens during the trial period. Now, this system works for someone we don't know much about, but for a player with a long-standing presence within the community? It is really just a tick box. So I waved it for Johnson, because what will an application tell me that I don't already know from three years of interactions?

The idea that Johnson received some unique exemption is false. In my search to try and encourage players into the staff team, I also offered other long time players that I trusted the same position, Pennington, being the current O5-1, was another player offered the fast-track into TMod as I trusted him, and him being very vocal regarding his thoughts on the server meant that I could rely on him to speak up and provide a strong viewpoint based on his valued experienced. He sadly rejected this offer, but the point stands.

Johnson is not unique in receiving the offer; he is unique in being the only one to have accepted it (thus far).

I can see where you're coming from and the reply is well formatted but it doesn't really help the current worry I have of people being offered mod positions. No one should be just be offered mod positions. They need to go through the application like everyone else or it sets a precedent that mod roles can be handed out in rough times just because you said so. Also, I don't think JJs some evil shadow puppeteer. Never said that. I'm just thinking favoring him to the point of offering him mod is a concern. Same goes with Pennington. I'm glad Pennington refused. (According to what you said.)

I also can't really change my stance on the whole favoritism to CI as a combat reg specifically because unless the nerfs are targeted at CI roles specifically then a majority of combat changes effect multiple people. E.g. clip/mag sizes, what can be restocked where, any changes on chems, ect. The only real nerf I've seen to CI is how they can't team with SCPs anymore and all hostile breached SCPs are supposed to kill everyone. That and the imminent breach state thing. Good change. Great change even. Now remove grenadier.

CI's rule of killing non combatants is in a good place, and SSL are fine with how they handle it during raids.

I fully understand I'm just gunna have to bury this hatchet and say I disagree. They can kill anyone 'for an ID' and bam, it's 'for benefit'. I will personally never be chill with CI gunning everyone down simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. A guy can't even be goofy anymore without getting his shit blown schmoove off. D-Class or Director. I get that the D-Class was disguised but when asked for clarification said CI 'assumed the assistant was metagaming and killed him.' This method of thinking isn't unique among CI players. They are SO combat oriented and so focused on 'winning' the game that they project others are metagaming and just murder them.

CI have been told time and time again that MRDM is not an acceptable reason for raiding, and that they must have an actual goal both before and during the raid.

Getting warfunds is a reason they use. Meaning any time CI feels their coffers are low they can nab an assistant or a director while mowing down anyone in the way. I'm not saying that you guys have to magic up reasons for raids, I'm just pointing out the reasons why CI as they stand right now are part of the reason the server feels painfully combat focused. One of the biggest factions entire point is to raid for money, info, IDs, or to breach the SCPs. Just like the above clip. They wanted the ID of someone who they thought was an assistant and also murked him because of perceived metagaming.

The Gensec TearGas ruling was made because of a discussion with the CI Leadership on the USA server. UK had nothing to do with that.

Well it changes what they can do on UK, so now it is an issue. I do understand that UK MTF/GSD should just 'git gud' to a certain extent, but due to the way someone else uses teargas, THEY now can't use teargas against the much larger faction? Like I get that the foundation combatants should outnumber the insurgency but they just don't. Maybe different combat rules should be enforced that way both servers can maintain their distinct differences while adapting to the player base that plays them?

I love CI and CI updates.... What can I say there's nothing easier than a CI buff... Thinking of an update for RSD or anything RP related is hard like what are we supposed to give them? But when it comes to CI its so easy as you can just give them a gun and they are happy

I also feel vindicated in this meme now and say that yes, this server is leaning hard into combat focus.

Granted I think it's on the RP leads to make the RP because content team can't magic up RP. However, what's the point of going in and trying to make RP in an environment that is so focused on 'winning' the combat/game?

Also obligatory:

 

[Broda]

Mesh Editor will put this all to rest

In Mesh we trust

 

[Avery Snow]

Now remove grenadier.

Foundation can't use tear gas on CI due to the powerful area of effect attack (Even though there's a counter with the gas masks)
CI gets a repeating grenade launcher and grenade launcher call in. With a even more powerful area of effect attack.


I'm not opposed to CI having grenade launchers. But make it make sense.

 

[MrSiens]

I also feel vindicated in this meme now and say that yes, this server is leaning hard into combat focus.

I cant lie, i laughed.

 

["Aki"]

the ragebait i could do in this thread...

 

[CherryBones]

the ragebait i could do in this thread...