Accepted Let O5/Ethics/Site Director call E.R.T

This suggestion has been accepted for future development.
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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Allows the O5 Council, Ethics Committee, and Site Director job/rank the ability to manually call between one - three E.R.T teams depending on the SCP breach severity. There will be several guidelines these roles follow, such as;

1. Only one ERT team may be called per breached SCP, the only exception being SCP-008. (If SCP-682 and 076-2 is breached, only two teams can be called. If only SCP-008 is breached, three teams may be called).

2. ERT may only be called manually if one of the following criteria is met; 5+ SCPs have been breached | 2+ SCPs are breaking past Entrance Zone Bulkhead | 3+ SCPs have breached into L.C.Z | A breach has been on-going for 30 minutes

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Yes, but this change introduces guidelines that these roles must follow in order to remain fair to the SCPs while not risking excessively long breaches and maintaining server health

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ Server health improvement
This reduces the amount of 1 - 2+ hour long breaches where ERT hasn't been called automatically, especially with SCP-008 breaches where the automatic ERT will only call one team despite the breach being so severe.

+ More unique powers to these roles
Makes these roles feel more important, even just a little. It makes lore sense and is a logical addition.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- SCP Nerf
This may be a nerf to some SCPs when compared to now, as ERT now can take up to an hour to be called in depending on the scenario even if the breach is pretty severe.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Recently, atleast on the USA server (cannot speak on UK), SCPs have been breaching to severe extents. 3+ SCPs in LCZ killing everyone, 8837 and other SCPs going straight for surface and using their abilities to bypass teslas and turrets then going to C.I base, 682 brute forcing his way to surface, etc. All of this happens and ERT rarely even gets called, even if a breach has been going on for over an hour. I'm not sure why, but it happens. There's been several incidents where O5 and even SL have opted to nuke the site before ERT even came because waiting for ERT to be automatically deployed was not reliable and server health was suffering greatly. Senior Admins are often not available to manually call ERT either considering how high the role is and how few of them are often in game during these events.

This suggestion not only will greatly improve server health, but its been something the community has wanted for a long time. These roles that would get the ability to call ERT manually are trusted roleplay leaders who have been part of the community for months or even years who we should be able to trust to make these fairly easy decisions, especially with the above guidelines, in order to balance SCP gameplay and overall server health. Nuking the server and never calling ERT isn't fun for anybody.
 
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This has been denied before with the reason being that ERT is supposed to act as a "soft nuke", this was clarified when they were first added. They are the final resort before the site is nuked and an RP reset needs to happen.
As a result, ERT was DESIGNED WITH BEING OP IN MIND. They are not meant to be a fair opponent for SCPs to fight against.

Allowing CL5 personnel letalone CL4 personnel to call it in will not be fun since ERT is not designed as a balanced opponent to any SCP breach. This should be obvious since one good ERT team can take out an otherwise site-ending breach. Allowing site members to call them in will invariably end up with them being called in too often and for more and more minor reasons with each passing day.

If your issue is that ERT teams are not called in as often as they should be you can just suggest whatever shit they programmed to calculate if a breach needs ERT to respond to be changed, being able to manually call it in will never be a good option to go down.

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I'm not saying what you're suggesting is bad, I would otherwise support it if, for example, the chance that ERT is called in increases if certain SCPs (excluding 966, 096, 049-2, and 079) get into EZ or if 5 SCPs are breached. You said yourself that SL has opted to nuke the site because ERT is not spawning often enough. The change to make here isn't to allow people to manually call it in, but to add/change the existing code that says how often ERT will spawn in.
Being able to manually call them in will never be a good option for server health.
 
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They'll deny this because "we don't trust the players not to call it in every breach" mentality. Which while valid can still be a massive pain in the arse. I'm trusted to blow the site up but god forbid I take options to avoid that...
me when site command and site directors (already well trusted players in such a crucial position) want to preserve roleplay not delaying a breach by 30 minutes because no ert ever gets called
 
-support

This has been denied before with the reason being that ERT is supposed to act as a "soft nuke", this was clarified when they were first added. They are the final resort before the site is nuked and an RP reset needs to happen.
As a result, ERT was DESIGNED WITH BEING OP IN MIND. They are not meant to be a fair opponent for SCPs to fight against.

Allowing CL5 personnel letalone CL4 personnel to call it in will not be fun since ERT is not designed as a balanced opponent to any SCP breach. This should be obvious since one good ERT team can take out an otherwise site-ending breach. Allowing site members to call them in will invariably end up with them being called in too often and for more and more minor reasons with each passing day.

If your issue is that ERT teams are not called in as often as they should be you can just suggest whatever shit they programmed to calculate if a breach needs ERT to respond to be changed, being able to manually call it in will never be a good option to go down.

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I'm not saying what you're suggesting is bad, I would otherwise support it if, for example, the chance that ERT is called in increases if certain SCPs (excluding 966, 096, 049-2, and 079) get into EZ or if 5 SCPs are breached. You said yourself that SL has opted to nuke the site because ERT is not spawning often enough. The change to make here isn't to allow people to manually call it in, but to add/change the existing code that says how often ERT will spawn in.
Being able to manually call them in will never be a good option for server health.
You know what else is overpowered? A nuke. But that's still an option given for Site Command to use. With your logic of "Well if we give Site Command this power they'll just overuse it", then why not apply that same logic to nukes? Site Command doesn't even have any guidelines that they need to follow for nukes, they're allowed to just use it whenever they deem it to be reasonable. The use of nukes has been regulated pretty heavily throughout the servers existence and has been a last resort to simply delete every SCP off of the server and reset everything. There hasn't been any real or consistent issues with giving the players this power ever because we come to trust the players in those roles, and abuse of it is super easily detectable and enforceable just like this would be. Why do we trust players with that power but not the power to call in an ERT team when the system hasn't deployed it automatically yet when they realistically should've been?

This isn't about fairness. What isn't fair is for a player to walk out of their spawn and die less than two minutes later to an overpowered enemy with tens of thousands of HP with instakill or high damage abilities and higher speeds. What isn't fair is that these same players who suffer from this will have to go on with this for another hour because the automated system is so flawed. E.R.T is overpowered so they can fight other overpowered enemies. Just like how a good group of ERT who work together and organize (which is pretty rare in most cases), a good group of SCPs can easily cause a nuke or a 2 hour breach by organizing themselves to certain areas that protect each other. If E.R.T was "balanced" like every other job, they'd be useless against SCPs who are just as, if not more, overpowered than ERT. (God bless the mass 008 breach where a single ERT is deployed because SSL isn't around)

And sure in the perfect world we could have a flawless system where ERT is called in every time right when we need them the most but the matter of the fact is, it's not possible. The system you want where it detects what SCP enters which zone and how many and etc etc would be extremely complicated if not impossible to recreate and would require a programmer (a type of dev that is not abundant) who would want to make that system. And that does not sound like a system any of our developers would have fun making, so it would sit on the back burner for years and server health would continue to suffer as it is. It is much better for a human being who can make conscious decisions to be able to call in ERT and decide when its needed. The manual calling of ERT is already a system made for senior admins and can be easily transferred to site command, giving a very quick and logical solution.

We trust players to nuke the server, kill 80% of the players, insta contain SCPs, and reset all RP with the press of a button. We should be able to trust those same players to make reasonable decisions (as they have been with the nuke) in order to support server health. If I'm an SCP and I had to choose between O5 calling in ERT, making me fight some difficult enemies and continue my breach, or be nuked and instantly sent back to my cell, I'd choose the ERT. I feel like every SCP player would do the same. Server health suffers with these long breaches and nobody is satisfied when a nuke has to be called especially when ERT hasnt even been able to be called yet despite the entire server begging for them to be deployed due to the systems very apparent flaws.
 
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You know what else is overpowered? A nuke. But that's still an option given for Site Command to use. With your logic of "Well if we give Site Command this power they'll just overuse it", then why not apply that same logic to nukes?
Nukes are an RP reset, ERT isn't. There's a good difference between the two.
There hasn't been any real or consistent issues with giving the players this power ever because we come to trust the players in those roles, and abuse of it is super easily detectable and enforceable just like this would be. Why do we trust players with that power but not the power to call in an ERT team when the system hasn't deployed it automatically yet when they realistically should've been?
There's a difference between nuke abuse (killing everybody inside the site multiple times in a day for no good reason) and abusing the potential to call in ERT. If a nuke is called in, all other options have been exhausted and it has to happen.

If an O5 member didn't go through every possible scenario before nuking the site, and they weren't incredibly thorough with their attempts to pull the site back before doing so they could well be tribunaled or banned for MRDM. That can never happen with ERT, the difference being misusing the nuke can get you banned from the server while the other is effectively a get out of jail free card.

This isn't about fairness. What isn't fair is for a player to walk out of their spawn and die less than two minutes later to an overpowered enemy with tens of thousands of HP with instakill or high damage abilities and higher speeds. What isn't fair is that these same players who suffer from this will have to go on with this for another hour because the automated system is so flawed.
Right, that's why I think the way to go here is to change the automated system so that things like this will encourage ERT to be called in.

I understand the server isn't called BreachRP but you have to remember that the players who waited for hours to get breached (or a CI team who has managed to hold a containment chamber and breach it) should be able to reap the rewards and cause some chaos before eventually getting recontained.

Imagine a really well co-ordinated CI raid which has managed to breach a large amount of SCPs:
Five minutes later, when the first three get into LCZ, an ERT team is now allowed to be called in to kill all the SCPs and all of CI (this has been clarified before as allowed iirc) and the entire breach ends before it even really starts.
The work put in by CI, in this example, was all for nothing because ERT can just be called in to end a bad breach before it even starts. Yeah, that's "lore friendly" or some shit but it's not fun for the team of people who planned out and managed to succeed in an otherwise incredibly successful raid.
a good group of SCPs can easily cause a nuke or a 2 hour breach by organizing themselves to certain areas that protect each other.
People should be rewarded for good co-ordination? If a nuke happens, that's basically the best thing that an SCP can do aside from escaping to surface?
(God bless the mass 008 breach where a single ERT is deployed because SSL isn't around)
back in my day we had to hack into the nuke room and manually hack-tivate it as IA 👴👴👴

The system you want where it detects what SCP enters which zone and how many and etc etc would be extremely complicated if not impossible to recreate and would require a programmer (a type of dev that is not abundant) who would want to make that system.
Yea I suppose i dont know how difficult it would be to code fair enough. I could swear there were cash-rewards for going out of your way to code shit like this tho? bounties or smth?
We trust players to nuke the server, kill 80% of the players, insta contain SCPs, and reset all RP with the press of a button. We should be able to trust those same players to make reasonable decisions (as they have been with the nuke) in order to support server health. If I'm an SCP and I had to choose between O5 calling in ERT, making me fight some difficult enemies and continue my breach, or be nuked and instantly sent back to my cell, I'd choose the ERT. I feel like every SCP player would do the same. Server health suffers with these long breaches and nobody is satisfied when a nuke has to be called especially when ERT hasnt even been able to be called yet despite the entire server begging for them to be deployed due to the systems very apparent flaws.
I stand by what I said about the only reason nukes being dealt with so well is the threat of a month-long ban for MRDM or a demotion if misused. The same cannot be said about calling in ERT.
At the end of the day, ERT should be the final thing called in before a nuke. At least personally, I have never seen a nuke called in before ERT is called and if that is actually happening that's horrendous :skull:
 
Nukes are an RP reset, ERT isn't. There's a good difference between the two.
Exactly. Nukes are a much more severe option that isn't fun for the SCPs, even less so than fighting ERT would be.


There's a difference between nuke abuse (killing everybody inside the site multiple times in a day for no good reason) and abusing the potential to call in ERT. If a nuke is called in, all other options have been exhausted and it has to happen.

If an O5 member didn't go through every possible scenario before nuking the site, and they weren't incredibly thorough with their attempts to pull the site back before doing so they could well be tribunaled or banned for MRDM. That can never happen with ERT, the difference being misusing the nuke can get you banned from the server while the other is effectively a get out of jail free card.
This suggestion adds rules and guidelines that these players would need to follow. Abuse, loopholes, or other misuse of these guidelines would get them straight up removed from their position entirely. There's no get out of jail free card for it, SSL has the ability to make their own decisions and realize when something is being abused by people in these positions. They aren't an automated system. And there are scenarios where not all options have been exhausted for a nuke because they couldnt be exhausted, because this automated system is so flawed and cannot make decisions on its own beyond the vague parameters given to it.
People should be rewarded for good co-ordination? If a nuke happens, that's basically the best thing that an SCP can do aside from escaping to surface?
Exactly, people should be rewarded for good coordination. And a well coordinated group of SCPs can fairly combat and kill ERT teams. Like I said before, things like 106 camping elevators once ERT is announced while another SCP like 076 or 7722 camps out D Block and another SCP kills people in CPC or those who go near Delta Wing, etc. All of that gives 106 plenty of time to completely cripple ERT before they can even reach LCZ and delays any surviving ERTs response by a great amount of time (If any ERT can even escape with 106s new maze). It shouldn't be easy for an SCP to just dive head first into LCZ and kill every combative unit then escape to surface, they should be coordinated to take out their biggest threat, not just through pure strength but through minimum cooperation.


Yea I suppose i dont know how difficult it would be to code fair enough. I could swear there were cash-rewards for going out of your way to code shit like this tho? bounties or smth?
Bounties are issued by Ventz for things that he specifically wants done and for larger projects, such as entire zone reworks, the SCP maintenance system, the scp controller system etc. Big content updates. A system rework like this isnt impactful enough to warrant a bounty, especially considering our devs are busy with other projects that they even prefer to work on. Plus, bounties are just bounties. They aren't fully paid for the amount of work it actually takes to complete these jobs; devs complete their projects mostly because they have fun with it and want to see it in the server. The bounties are just additional incentives for bigger projects that require alot of dedication to complete. It's very unlikely that a bounty would be issues on such a rework for one system like this when there's much easier solutions.


I stand by what I said about the only reason nukes being dealt with so well is the threat of a month-long ban for MRDM or a demotion if misused. The same cannot be said about calling in ERT.
At the end of the day, ERT should be the final thing called in before a nuke. At least personally, I have never seen a nuke called in before ERT is called and if that is actually happening that's horrendous :skull:
Except the same can be said about misusing the calling of ERT. Maybe you wouldnt get banned for MRDM but you most definitely would get demoted for misuse and that enough is a severe punishment for the roles I mentioned given it takes people up to 6 months - 2 years to get there.

And yes ERT should be called in before a nuke, and that's the point of this. Just the other day on the USA server we had to nuke because ERT refused to come, there was no SSL on, and a bunch of SCPs were surface breaching after a 30 minute breach and we had zero way to combat it. Either that happens or it takes a two hour long breach (literally, also happened last week) for ERT to finally be called and by then the entire playerbase is exhausted and is wanting to get off the server (especially E-11). And it is horrendous, it's awful for server health and we have no other options. A new system would take an unreasonable amount of time for a present and serious issue and it's tanking the communities health and numbers right now, so we need a solution right now. Maybe a new system could be commissioned and we have manual calling of ERT as a thing until that system is complete, but we cannot leave things as is while we wait.
 
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