Content Suggestion Make Nu-7 Enlisteds CL2

[Zen]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Using the new rank clearance system, make Nu-7 Enlisteds (PVT-LCPL) CL2 instead of CL3. SOP/Nu-7 areas such as their offices or compound should be similarly reduced, or access overrides given as appropriate (e.g. make SOP outer doors and Nu-7 barracks CL2, but keep DEA areas CL3).

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
No.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):

• Restricts clearance levels in a way that makes more sense
  • Nu-7 primarily deals with conventional weaponry and its use on surface. They don't need to know more SCP stuff in depth, like all the CL3 SCPs and whatever, and they don't need access to all of the SCP chambers, offices, etc. behind this clearance level. Whenever they do need to know, or have access to these areas, they'd likely be involved in things led by their superiors or other departments anyway, so they can just be told or granted access by these people. If SRU doesn't need to know or access CL3 stuff, neither do Nu-7 Enlisted, when they should be as far from the SCPs as possible most of the time.
• Makes clearance levels across site less flat
  • Pretty much everyone that is at all experienced is CL3. It seems to be pretty much the "default" clearance level, and it's sometimes seen as the start of when people are actually expected to be able to RP. This shouldn't be the case - clearance levels should be based on what actually makes sense in RP, not what OOC levelling expectations would suggest (it shouldn't be that you essentially get higher clearance levels the more the player is experienced, it should be based on their character/role).
• Encourages Nu-7 to actually be in the areas they are intended to be in, like surface and compound
  • They're often instead just in random areas of the site essentially acting as an expanded GSD. Surface level seems to often be completely abandoned at times. This has three issues: it doesn't make sense in RP for compound/garage to remain unguarded for long periods of time, it shifts other departments' roles and opportunities to Nu-7, and it means that CI raids can just easily get to LCZP uncontested and without warning. This issue comes and goes, but is recurring and is heavily dependent on things like who is online, and the general state of Nu-7 and its leadership at any given time.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

• Nu-7 can't support E-11 and the like as easily
  • Enlisteds shouldn't be going off on their own in places like LHCZ and whatever anyway. They should have their superiors with them, or be under supervision of the people actually in charge of those areas.
• People want to have higher clearance levels because it makes them feel special, even if they don't actually need it for their role
  • I get wanting to have more because you've done more or are a more experienced player or whatever, but this should be based more on your current role, not your OOC time spent or whatever. As it is, it would make more sense for roles like SRU or Tech Expert to be CL3 over Nu-7 Enlisteds, because they're at least supposed to be within the site all the time, and more often be in places like D-block vents or SCP chambers respectively.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
It just makes RP sense, and it is a good step towards both unflattening the current "CL3 is the default" expectation, and setting clearance levels based on what actually makes sense and is needed more generally.

 

[Zen]

I'm NOT going to read this entire discussion, my main questions is...: Why specifically Nu-7? Why not also E-11 and UNGOC? CI are already halfway there. I understand why AO should be CL3, but why is Nu-7 being "nerfed" in this case?

Because it's not about "nerfing" anything, it's about what makes sense in RP. E-11 needs to know a bunch of stuff about SCPs and whatever, so it's not reasonable to lower them from CL3, AO needs to know a bunch of stuff to support SC, so you can't lower them, but there's no such thing meaning Nu-7 shouldn't be lowered. If those things didn't exist, the others should be lowered too, but it doesn't make sense unlike Nu-7.

 

[YandereMuffin]

I hope you realize that it also lists MTFs such as E-11 and AO aswell as Nu7 having special permission. Also the field agents on the server are a surface cover up for special agents so CI don’t get their Cl4 keycards

Within that same page it says the words "Most research staff, field agents, and containment specialists hold a Level 2 security clearance." - this would suggest that the majority of researchers, DEA, and Containment units should hold CL2s, despite generally holding CL3s in-game.

It also states "Level 4 security clearances are typically only held by Site Directors, Security Directors, or Mobile Task Force Commanders." which is obviously not true in the server, since like half of all departments have 4+ CL4 players are any given time.

Basically the page is a general overview of Clearance Levels and how they could work, but specifically mentions that Clearance Level doesn't really mean anything and information is always given on a need-to-know basis rather than a Clearance Level one.

E-11 enlisteds needing override to 99% of HCZ as well as not being the correct clearance to know about all of the SCP's in that area is wild, Unless you make an exeception about the knowledge.. in which case.. what is the point really?

I do think this would be insanely annoying to put onto Senior Admins+, esspecially if it breaks, but frankly Clearance Level equally knowledge has never been a good idea.

E-11 needs to know a bunch of stuff about SCPs and whatever, so it's not reasonable to lower them from CL3

I wrote this above, and I know it doesn't really matter, but knowledge and CL don't need to match, and frankly Nu-7 need to know just as much, as they also need to know about any possible GoIs they will be fighting.

I think this post is missing 1 massive thing anyways, Nu-7 don't just "fight on surface", their point is to guard everywhere from enemy GOIs and this includes many CL3 areas.

If an Nu-7 cannot reasonably get somewhere to fight CI then I don't think this change is reasonable - playing any CL2 combative and needing for someone to open a door to heavy to let me fight the CI down there is already a pain, and that is Nu-7s whole role.

 

[FestiveJimb]

-support who hurt you as a child

 

[Emilia Foddg]

These replies have really made me realise how much this server has fucked up their understanding how Clearances work in the SCP universe.

It's not just for vanity or rank, it doesn't suddenly give you access to all information at that clearance, it doesn't make people more important.
An NU7 PVT would know jack shit about most SCPs unless they have been told specifically and they would have little access beyond the essentials.

I mean... Yes, but also no to an extent. I'll agree with the others on the grounds that what's implemented is somewhat removed from the actual real-life concept of security clearance, mostly because 'clearance' in terms of both SCP and this server is just... For the most part, it is 'clearance to access these areas and know this information'. This above puts it pretty well:

Within that same page it says the words "Most research staff, field agents, and containment specialists hold a Level 2 security clearance." - this would suggest that the majority of researchers, DEA, and Containment units should hold CL2s, despite generally holding CL3s in-game.

It also states "Level 4 security clearances are typically only held by Site Directors, Security Directors, or Mobile Task Force Commanders." which is obviously not true in the server, since like half of all departments have 4+ CL4 players are any given time.

Basically the page is a general overview of Clearance Levels and how they could work, but specifically mentions that Clearance Level doesn't really mean anything and information is always given on a need-to-know basis rather than a Clearance Level one.

So I at the very least understand their confusion. But as I said before, it's just weirdly fuzzy - We have instances of personnel at lower clearances being cleared for access to higher clearance areas/information (I forget, can you take CL2 security escorts to CL3 tests if the researcher is CL3? I remember this being a thing on UK, but I might be remembering wrong - My point here reinforcing the idea that these things are not strictly absolute, and have flexibility, something that I've been screaming this entire thread to seemingly no avail). In some ways, things are right both ways.

And again, since we so readily give out access clearance, that makes it unnecessarily easy for CI to get useful keycards.

ADDENDUM:
One thing I would like to point out here, since so many people are obsessed with what happens in lore and on the wiki -

It also states "Level 4 security clearances are typically only held by Site Directors, Security Directors, or Mobile Task Force Commanders."

Which seems to carry the implication that CL4 Researchers do not exist in lore. If that's the case and that clearance is so strictly tied to knowledge as many people have been claiming, how can there be, in the same medium, so many tests on CL4 objects, esp. termination attempts for 682, a CL4 SCP? Are the MTF Commanders and/or Site/Security Directors themselves conducting the tests? Or more likely, are lower clearance researchers being cleared to know select things about high-clearance objects in order to undertake the test or whatever project? It's almost as if the points are made up and nothing matters.

I do think this would be insanely annoying to put onto Senior Admins+, esspecially if it breaks, but frankly Clearance Level equally knowledge has never been a good idea.

I can empathise with this - As I've stated before, I feel like there's some element of "clearance level always equalling knowledge" within the server zeitgeist anyway (Especially if these replies are anything to go by, this thread has been a shining example of that). Personally, I'm of the opinion that once the playerbase adapts to this change and hopefully realises that that's not true, the server would be better for it as a result.

E-11 needs to know a bunch of stuff about SCPs and whatever, so it's not reasonable to lower them from CL3

I would argue that in the case of Enlisted, who are basically being initiated into the regiment, you don't need to know as much as the immediately higher ranks. I know that E-11 has biohazard at LCPL whose primary mission statement is things like 008 & 049 - However, I don't see a need for PVT & SPC to strictly be full CL3, over CL2 with allowances in the same way that Nu7 enlisted would be.

Why not also E-11 and UNGOC?

...Honestly, I kinda agree here - I've already stated my opinion on E-11 Enlisted, but my past experience in UNGOC leads me to think that now it's actually mechanically possible, I feel like it's reasonable to also explore this idea for UNGOC Enlisted. They have an entirely separate security & information ecosystem, but it doesn't strike me that even with the high bar to entry, that UNGOC leadership would trust Enlisted with GOC CL3. I suppose the one silver lining with this argument is that, considering them in isolation, there'd be less keypads for Sr. Admins to reconfigure

 

[Dusk]

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Possibly the most dumb and needless change I've ever heard of </3

I think I'd rather see that one guy who suggested an E11 job that gets ESP on SCPs be accepted than this </3.

-Support, obviously.

Honestly, considering the impressive collection of completely negative and hurtful posts on your profile, I wasn't expecting event making to be in your skillset, color me surprised.

That said, I’m on board with this change. Clearance levels have always been a bit loose when it comes to lore interpretation, and this tweak actually gives CL3 more purpose. It adds a layer of progression that makes hitting that level feel earned, rather than just another checkpoint.

 

[fyzar]

+support
i have a feeling most people are viewing this as "MAKE NU7 CL2" but its not, its just the enlisted ranks..... fine by me

 

[mradam_123]

@Emilia Foddg @Zen Whilst I disagree with this suggestion as of now. I think this could work well if there were 2 jobs called task force cadet which is a job shared by both Nu7 and E-11 (one job for each regiment) Where it could be a Trail job for a person wishing to join one of the two task forces and they would have a basic loudout with a CL2 keycard and whilst they wouldn’t be officially considered apart of the task force they would have a prefix like E-11 CDT (Name) and it could be used by the 2 task forces to scout out people and see if they active and ready to join. Also the job would be a non activity job meaning it would have no requirements however a person could still be removed if they minged around or were deemed incompetent to E-11 it would also be a tryout/whitelisted job.

 

[Average member podidski]

"Sometimes, I love when server kills their self with their 'Smart Players'."

 

[mradam_123]

"Sometimes, I love when server kills their self with their 'Smart Players'."

Common sense ain’t that common

 

[Emilia Foddg]

@Emilia Foddg @Zen Whilst I disagree with this suggestion as of now. I think this could work well if there were 2 jobs called task force cadet which is a job shared by both Nu7 and E-11 (one job for each regiment) Where it could be a Trail job for a person wishing to join one of the two task forces and they would have a basic loudout with a CL2 keycard and whilst they wouldn’t be officially considered apart of the task force they would have a prefix like E-11 CDT (Name) and it could be used by the 2 task forces to scout out people and see if they active and ready to join. Also the job would be a non activity job meaning it would have no requirements however a person could still be removed if they minged around or were deemed incompetent to E-11 it would also be a tryout/whitelisted job.

...Not only would this be job bloat, but to a degree, you've basically reinvented the PVT & SPC ranks in terms of purpose.

"Sometimes, I love when server kills their self with their 'Smart Players'."

If this was aimed at me, I'm just someone with a lot of opinions and passion who easily foams at the mouth - I'll take the compliment, though?