Making CG more Cops & Robbers -like again!

[Cloak]

Hi everyone,

I've been having some discussions with older players on the server, and a common sentiment is that many people miss the more 'Cops and Robbers' vibe of CG back in 2017-18, when it was a lot less focused on just money and more focused on action, flexing, massive fights between gangs and CGSF, and massive raids. Players would splash cash on guns and unprofitable raids just to be able to dominate another gang in a war they had declared, and guns were more expensive.

CGSF were also a lot more elite - higher standards, better RP - and had exclusive gear. Obviously they had higher HP and armor too, but I don't feel that's relevant here (and it's not currently up for consideration to add back), but a big part of why people wanted to become CGSF so badly was to get exclusive gear like the tazer! I also think that the prevalence of things like the tazer has led to the increased complaints of things like combat tazing - when everyone has a tazer it's significantly more annoying than when just a minority does.

I'm curious what your guys opinions would be if we made some changes like this:

• Appoint new CGSF commanders who will heavily increase the standards of the CGSF, put a lot more time into running it, and improve roleplay in the CGSF
• Make certain gear less prevalent and more exclusive, e.g. tazers for CGSF / SWAT Jugg again, making the Barret a CGSF gun (not advocating that we buff it to what it was in the old days!), etc. All of this would incentivise people to apply for CGSF even with the significantly heightened standards, and also create more of a difference between fighting a CGSF raid and a normal raid.
• Restricting basing rules to try to encourage the tighter, more packed style of bases that we had in the old days of CG, rather than the ridiculous megabases we currently have (would not affect people's money/hr, just would mean they'd need to stick closer together.
• Looking at increasing incentives to perform actions like raiding the PD / raiding the jewelry store, providing more of a challenge. e.g. perhaps scaling rewards with the amount of PD or CGSF on.

If anything I would say this is a nerf to PD on the whole (less tazers, etc) but would still make the server significantly more interesting.

Obviously these are just baby steps towards making the server have a similar action vibe to how it did in 2017-18 but we can build on here. If you have more ideas feel free to say. Thanks!

 

[Cal]

Bring back basing and bumming CGSF, not these shit tier gaylord CGSF's. Fully agree.

 

[Lee Falzone]

Back in the old days when cops actually role played. What i would give just to see it again...

Would love to see that happen!

 

[Foufasto]

-Make Hex indestructible to nerf defences since every retard on this planet can learn how to tunnel hex.
-Allow Cong armor and Hex to be used for defenders to make it balanced.
-Make Cong armor invulnerable to tazers and increase it price so players know it value.
-Make a Rule against jammer lines and stop PD from being able to use tazers while jammed.
It would make raiding more PVP based not a gang of mongs spraying a hex to destroy it or some fuckers trying to peak and shoot from the hex when they get past the defences while others are in the open, it would also stop PD from using the jam and taze one shot meta.

 

[Darkos]

I disagree with every point Foufasto just made. Problem is gangs earn stupid money and can afford stuff like cong armour, the pd can not always afford it. Defenders using hexes and Cong would just be stupid.
As for one of cloaks points, we literally just got a new commander. The fact you say they were a lot more elite is an insult tbh, higher standards?? I was one of the old CGSF and I think the current team is doing what they can to ensure the survival of the team. You’re not going to buff the HP and armour but only want the best of the best completely restricting numbers. For once I currently think raid meta is fine. Basing doesn’t really need to be touched nor do hexes. Finally, you say about giving people an incentive to join CGSF such as exclusive weapons, this is already happening with the new CGSF sniper and I think continuing this would be a positive thing. Oh and finally another “PD nerf on the whole” is completely unsurprising.
I’ll be in TS if you wanna discuss anything

 

[Coolioo]

-Make Hex indestructible to nerf defences since every retard on this planet can learn how to tunnel hex.
-Allow Cong armor and Hex to be used for defenders to make it balanced.
-Make Cong armor invulnerable to tazers and increase it price so players know it value.
-Make a Rule against jammer lines and stop PD from being able to use tazers while jammed.
It would make raiding more PVP based not a gang of mongs spraying a hex to destroy it or some fuckers trying to peak and shoot from the hex when they get past the defences while others are in the open, it would also stop PD from using the jam and taze one shot meta.

1) Totally agree, hexes being indestructible doesn't effect small bases as they can't destroy hex shields as they are now & it would directly nerf the mega bases.

2) I don't really think it would be balanced, the defenders already sit behind a one-way, defence riddled base - so letting them have cong/hex shields would not make it balanced, it'd make it more unbalanced

3) I think one jammer per raid would be a decent rule, when I played we'd just get stacks of jammers & walk into a base. Having only one forces the raiders to be more strategic. I agree with the tazer.

---

• Appoint new CGSF commanders who will heavily increase the standards of the CGSF, put a lot more time into running it, and improve roleplay in the CGSF
• Make certain gear less prevalent and more exclusive, e.g. tazers for CGSF / SWAT Jugg again, making the Barret a CGSF gun (not advocating that we buff it to what it was in the old days!), etc. All of this would incentivise people to apply for CGSF even with the significantly heightened standards, and also create more of a difference between fighting a CGSF raid and a normal raid.
• Restricting basing rules to try to encourage the tighter, more packed style of bases that we had in the old days of CG, rather than the ridiculous megabases we currently have (would not affect people's money/hr, just would mean they'd need to stick closer together.
• Looking at increasing incentives to perform actions like raiding the PD / raiding the jewelry store, providing more of a challenge. e.g. perhaps scaling rewards with the amount of PD or CGSF on.

1) The last 3 CGSF commanders, par Eilon, didn't RP at all & it was a toxic system. Right now with Zizo as a Commander is a good replacement; as along as the commanders are RP > combat & actually take it as a manager role then it'd be fine.

2) I remember when every debate asking for more jobs with a tazer would just result in it being denied, then one day the Police Sergeant got added, which never really made sense to me. It should be CGSF/Swat Jugg exclusive.

Barret should also be a CGSF exclusive gun. I liked the old CGSF guns - Barret/M4A1 - but when VGUNS came out everyone had access to everything, definitely shouldn't be buffed to what it was.

3) I don't like megabases. I had more fun sat in my small base in shitville with my gang in 2017, all squeezing past each other with a lot of printers upstairs. Now all gang bases have that massive front wall with a really cancerous defence.

4) More PD = Higher rewards sounds good to me. Then people could manage what they bring to raids in correlation to how many PD are on.

---

I know it's probably a long way in the future from what Ventz has said to me, but VORGS2 is the obvious way to improve the server.

99% of the active player base stayed playing CG because they joined a gang/created a gang when they first joined. Having an improved gang system is like having an improved fishing net to bring players in to continue playing. It's not a coincidence that "minge gangs" of the past like TGM, IMS, Candyman, CMC, etc... all mass welcomed in new players & now those players , that they originally got shit for inviting because they're new, are still in the community or made it to high staff ranks.

TGM: Zizo - superadmin
IMS: Fedup - admin, Killer Bean, senior admin+ several staff members
Candyman: lybbx - senior admin, + several staff members
CMC: Erick - admin, + several staff members

 

[Nathan]

Bottom line is we need more active CGSF.
Everyone always gets caught up in the "Buff/Nerf CGSF" argument but fail to realise no actual CGSF are logging on. Aside from Tuesday which is the first time in months I've seen a good squad of members online. Love the idea of bringing back the Cops & Robbers dynamic, the megabases would have a balanced opponent if the PD groups are well organised and coordinated.
On that vein, though I'm not a fan of the indestructible hexes, I think that a solid CGSF force with enough active members would easily infiltrate any one of the megabases I've seen on CG recently. Also, love the idea of having gear that's exclusive to CGSF, it gives the average PD-Joe something to strive for.
Finally, I don't particularly agree with the restricting megabases. They look great on the map and I think they add to the gangland-Esque vibe that some orgs aiming for.​

 

[Foufasto]

My point is to make it more PVP based, indestructible hexes and jammers make defences meaningless for mega bases so saying defenders sit behind one ways is pointless just a decent hex tunneling and you are good, but after the raiders are in, it would be unbalanced that the raiders have full congs and hexes to peak from while the defenders are in the open.

@Darkos About the conglomerate armor it should be a new one for criminals to prevent getting tazed (making tazers less overpowered)

 

[Cloak]

Finally, I don't particularly agree with the restricting megabases. They look great on the map​

Re: CGSF - I am not trying to insult anyone, I've heard Zizo is good - but I would still like to appoint an extra Commander who will really bring the vibe in that it used to have. I'm not talking about buffing or nerfing CGSF, I'm talking about making it more unique & interesting again, and changing the dynamic.

 

[Nathan]

Re: CGSF - I am not trying to insult anyone, I've heard Zizo is good - but I would still like to appoint an extra Commander who will really bring the vibe in that it used to have. I'm not talking about buffing or nerfing CGSF, I'm talking about making it more unique & interesting again, and changing the dynamic.

I'm curious what your guys opinions would be if we made some changes like this:

• Restricting basing rules to try to encourage the tighter, more packed style of bases that we had in the old days of CG, rather than the ridiculous megabases we currently have (would not affect people's money/hr, just would mean they'd need to stick closer together.

You asked for opinions and I gave mine..

 

[Darkos]

Bottom line is we need more active CGSF.
Everyone always gets caught up in the "Buff/Nerf CGSF" argument but fail to realise no actual CGSF are logging on. Aside from Tuesday which is the first time in months I've seen a good squad of members online. Love the idea of bringing back the Cops & Robbers dynamic, the megabases would have a balanced opponent if the PD groups are well organised and coordinated.
On that vein, though I'm not a fan of the indestructible hexes, I think that a solid CGSF force with enough active members would easily infiltrate any one of the megabases I've seen on CG recently. Also, love the idea of having gear that's exclusive to CGSF, it gives the average PD-Joe something to strive for.
Finally, I don't particularly agree with the restricting megabases. They look great on the map and I think they add to the gangland-Esque vibe that some orgs aiming for.​

I mean since we got the new commander the team is up. That was what we needed, a fresh team.

 

[Darkos]

Re: CGSF - I am not trying to insult anyone, I've heard Zizo is good - but I would still like to appoint an extra Commander who will really bring the vibe in that it used to have. I'm not talking about buffing or nerfing CGSF, I'm talking about making it more unique & interesting again, and changing the dynamic.

Kenny is now commander aswell.

 

[Darkos]

My point is to make it more PVP based, indestructible hexes and jammers make defences meaningless for mega bases so saying defenders sit behind one ways is pointless just a decent hex tunneling and you are good, but after the raiders are in, it would be unbalanced that the raiders have full congs and hexes to peak from while the defenders are in the open.

@Darkos About the conglomerate armor it should be a new one for criminals to prevent getting tazed (making tazers less overpowered)

I have tried tazing using jammers. It rarely works. You're better off as a cop pulling out a knife and relying on your slightly higher stats.

 

[Zwacky]

Well, i have started playing CG again and been playing it for the past 2-3 weeks. Even though i am messing around as PD 24/7 i sometimes engage in RP situations and actually try to RP with others but it is not worky. People doesn't want to RP anymore. This goes to current staff, criminals and CGSF. When you try to get people face the wall to ask them questions for the sole purpose of RPing they will refuse to face the wall, scream "Why, why why," etc and call staff for RDA. This is just frustrating. For the past 3-4 days i started seeing 3-4 CGSF online after all this time but...I can say that it is not the best experience seeing current Civil Gamers Special Forces. They don't RP at all, stun stick abuse each other, can't raid bases for shit and are basically incompetent. I have no idea what are their commanders doing but they have to do a check-up on their NCOs and below.

Long story short;

1- Current CGSF is absolute dogshit just like @Cal said.

2- Criminals doesn't want to RP with PD anymore ( Staff will argue with you when they are getting engaged in an RP situation, they will use their powers whenever they can. )

3- I have no idea how good Zizo was as CGSF before he got Commander for existing but in my opinion Kenny is extremely suitable for the Commander of Civil Gamers Special Forces position ? ? ? ? ?

4- Bring back M9K for fuck's sake.

5- Remove M82 .50cal from public usage and make it exclusive for CGSF Specialist. Also remove Disguise kit from Specialist, wtf?

6- ?????

 

[Darkos]

Well, i have started playing CG again and been playing it for the past 2-3 weeks. Even though i am messing around as PD 24/7 i sometimes engage in RP situations and actually try to RP with others but it is not worky. People doesn't want to RP anymore. This goes to current staff, criminals and CGSF. When you try to get people face the wall to ask them questions for the sole purpose of RPing they will refuse to face the wall, scream "Why, why why," etc and call staff for RDA. This is just frustrating. For the past 3-4 days i started seeing 3-4 CGSF online after all this time but...I can say that it is not the best experience seeing current Civil Gamers Special Forces. They don't RP at all, stun stick abuse each other, can't raid bases for shit and are basically incompetent. I have no idea what are their commanders doing but they have to do a check-up on their NCOs and below.

Long story short;

1- Current CGSF is absolute dogshit just like @Cal said.

2- Criminals doesn't want to RP with PD anymore ( Staff will argue with you when they are getting engaged in an RP situation, they will use their powers whenever they can. )

3- I have no idea how good Zizo was as CGSF before he got Commander for existing but in my opinion Kenny is extremely suitable for the Commander of Civil Gamers Special Forces position ? ? ? ? ?

4- Bring back M9K for fuck's sake.

5- Remove M82 .50cal from public usage and make it exclusive for CGSF Specialist. Also remove Disguise kit from Specialist, wtf?

6- ?????

M9K Will never come back
If you have a problem with any of the CGSF why are you not reporting them to staff/higher up CGSF
When you say stun stick abusing are you talking about stun stick boosting?
Disguise kit on specialist is very helpful.

 

[Flames]

Well, i have started playing CG again and been playing it for the past 2-3 weeks. Even though i am messing around as PD 24/7 i sometimes engage in RP situations and actually try to RP with others but it is not worky. People doesn't want to RP anymore. This goes to current staff, criminals and CGSF. When you try to get people face the wall to ask them questions for the sole purpose of RPing they will refuse to face the wall, scream "Why, why why," etc and call staff for RDA. This is just frustrating. For the past 3-4 days i started seeing 3-4 CGSF online after all this time but...I can say that it is not the best experience seeing current Civil Gamers Special Forces. They don't RP at all, stun stick abuse each other, can't raid bases for shit and are basically incompetent. I have no idea what are their commanders doing but they have to do a check-up on their NCOs and below.

Long story short;

1- Current CGSF is absolute dogshit just like @Cal said.

2- Criminals doesn't want to RP with PD anymore ( Staff will argue with you when they are getting engaged in an RP situation, they will use their powers whenever they can. )

3- I have no idea how good Zizo was as CGSF before he got Commander for existing but in my opinion Kenny is extremely suitable for the Commander of Civil Gamers Special Forces position ? ? ? ? ?

4- Bring back M9K for fuck's sake.

5- Remove M82 .50cal from public usage and make it exclusive for CGSF Specialist. Also remove Disguise kit from Specialist, wtf?

6- ?????

Like Darkos said M9K isn't coming back.
The CGSF being dogshit is debatable, most of them can actually shoot which is more than the average cop nowadays.
The disguise kit is actually useful. The specialist is a sniper, they're supposed to eliminate hostiles and disguise amongst the crowd to reposition or to do undercover. At least, that's what it is supposed to be used for.
Removing the M82 from public usage would be more or less idiotic because those who have M82's in their stash are either gonna treat them as rare weapons or have to be refunded their money.
The statement saying "Can't raid bases for shit and are basically incompetent" is false, I play both Criminal and PD the CGSF are competent enough to breach a base and kill everyone.
CG's RP as a whole is dying or has been dead, those who have been trying to revive it failed or is still trying.

 

['a' TS Kenny]

A couple of months ago we where at "why is there no RP in the streets, everybody's afk basing" now people want mega bases back the endless cycle

 

[Billy]

Hmmmmmmmm

 

[search]

Hmmmmmmmm

billy civilgamers makes his grand return to civilgamers dark rp!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

['a' TS Kenny]

People often cite late 2018 as one of the few golden eras of CG besides 2016. You could go onto main street and find many types of businesses. As stun says, your FPS would drop from the amount of stores and buildings there. It was a completely different zone to what it is now. Money isn't changing hands enough anymore because people aren't incentivised to create the incentive to have it change hands.

The server's economy is going to be reset as the town hall indicated.
The economy is messed up. Having a functional economy in the first place is likely the preventing the same problems from arising in the new one. If the solution isn't renewable then it's a bad one. Just because you want to shoot things and regulate which shooting occurs when and how - it doesn't mean that the bigger factors that have led to this mess aren't in play. Helicopters and the various other spendables have failed in draining the economy. Unless money starts changing hands and players are encouraged and rewarded for doing so then you're going to face the same messed up economy within a few months. You can have a cops and robbers DarkRP, but supporting that third "citizen" style of roleplay will increase roleplay overall for all 3 major RP roles. Business is dead - and by declaring it a "non-DarkRP" prospect you're limiting the plays possible to sitting inside a base all day with the occasional vault raid or bunnyhopping around the map as a police officer.

Business Concepts that help the dynamic of DarkRP (selling checkpoints, HQ's and police barriers to cops and bases, defences and turret scripts to criminals) are not a detraction of DarkRP and it's plain ignorant to dismiss this as a CC concept.

The three primary categories of DarkRP in order of prevalance and importance go as follows:

Criminals
The most essential category. Without criminals there is no crime and very little purpose for the police. Criminals thrive when there are no police making this dynamic criminal heavy. There are almost always more criminals than police officers which is why the RP of more players depends on the management of this category.

In terms of the economy, this category is of the biggest detriment and serverside tweaks will only slow this detriment down.

Police
Secondary category. Provides security to law abiding citizens. Thrives in purpose from criminality. Has no purpose except community service without it (also rare on CG).

In terms of the economy, this category in theory should help players in the former category expend money therefore helping the economy - however players of this category usually play exlusively PD and rarely as criminals. Therefore criminals are still earning unholy amounts.

Misc/Citizens
Tertiary category. Provides services to both criminals and police. The ceiling for this category is so ridiculously high.

In terms of the economy, this category should be the one to cancel out the detriment from the first category. Criminals at the moment have nothing to spend their money on that's worthwhile. Maxnet scripting and unique business ideas that heavily involve roleplay are not only an economic remedy but also a golden ticket to create more RP ideas. More business ideas means an at least breathing stock market that players of all 3 main categories can make/lose money from.

THIS CATEGORY IS COMPLETELY DEAD EXCEPT FOR A FEW GUN DEALERS EVERY DAY

---

Honestly though - if you're going to dismiss concepts that only add to the dynamic of DarkRP and increase it's overall replayability with a "go play cc" then I'm not sure what to recommend. That's not a fair assessment. If you love to see excellent looking buildings, reliable services and those rare genius business prospects that pop up on main street every now and then then you shouldn't oppose this. Have staff create a top performing businesses competiton every month to kickstart competitivity and have a business highlights of some sort. People hate business because they open up a shop and get sniped by CGSF who aren't used to law abiding citizens or they get spam raided by criminals and find it meaningless to carry on as they were.

No changes to functionality, likely no addons or optimisations - just straight up community backed support and encouragement and competition. Competing market = consistent and higher quality services as well as economy resolving money drains that last as long as a person is in the game. And even when they aren't, somebody else will take their place.

We are literally going to trial M9k because at the town hall it was stated the guns "give a darkrp feel" if players don't want a realistic gun pack why would they want to put time into a business addon.