Denied Merge the DEA into MTF Nu-7

[J. 'Eidolon' Shekelstein]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
- Merges the DEA jobs seen below into the MTF Nu-7 regiment and removes any left over


Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
- This has not been suggested before

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Will fully resolve the overlap of duties between the DEA and MTF Nu-7
- Will recover the counter-intelligence and Code-1 response RP that Nu-7 had to sacrifice in order for the DEA to exist
- Will create a much more cohesive surface operations unit
- Will unify in-game and teamspeak communications between the two branches of surface operations, giving SOPs the coordination they need to effectively counter GOIs
- Will minimise the potential participants in the hostage negotiations chain of command, saving response time during hostage situations while the Foundation establishes who will be taking priorty in talks
- Will make MTF Nu-7 a much more holistic and authentic surface operations task force
- Will reduce the jobs profile of the DEA, which currently has a four-tier chain of command despite being a specialist department with only one major RP loop

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Some DEA players will undoubtedly disagree with being bought under new leadership they are not familiar with
- MTF Nu-7 will be required to integrate the DEA documentation into their regimental documentation
- There will be CL4 DEA jobs that need to be relegated to CL3 and it is reasonable for the CL4 DEA players to disagree with this
- The VIP Operative job will exist within a regiment, however the CI and GOC regiments hold VIP jobs which see frequent use

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
- The Foundation faction has seen three iterations of departments and regiments designed to work alongside MTF Nu-7 in surface operations; The Department of Intelligence, MTF Beta-1 and currently the Department of External Affairs and in all three cases it was a requirement for MTF Nu-7 to sacrifice parts of their passive RP to accommodate these new departments. I believe the removal of Intel and B-1 was a missed opportunity to fully integrate the spy-type jobs into MTF Nu-7 and create a much more holistic surface operations task force

- The introduction of the UNGOC and their strict diplomacy focus means that the DEA are required to engage in frequent diplomacy with the Coalition, however the DEA requires a final say on any agreements with the Coalition from Site Administration and the O5 Council before they can be signed off. It would be far more practical for Site Administration to be the front-end contact with GOIs instead of the DEA, with MTF Nu-7 providing security to Site Administration during their diplomatic duties.

- The DEA is the only department outside of Site Command and Site Administration that had a staff document drafted for them to secure and preserve the DEA's gameplay and RP from overlap and this inflexibility has marginalised MTFs Nu-7 and A-1 from getting their hands on counter-intelligence and hostage RP, this loss of crucial pieces of RP has mitigated the gameplay of MTFs Nu-7 and A-1 which is unhealthy for those regiments

- The DEA has historically and currently had very strong weapons loadouts that they inhereted from Beta-1 which are comparable and in many ways superior to MTF Nu-7s, this means that DEA jobs have a significant advantage over Nu-7 jobs, as the DEA takes priority on counter intelligence and GOI negotiations over Nu-7 while also having better loadouts than them as well as easier access to CL4 positions. Which causes players to chose to play DEA instead of Nu-7, weakening the Nu-7 regiment.

- Merging the DEA into MTF Nu-7 appears to be the most conclusive way to fully resolve the grey areas and overlap between the DEA and Nu-7, I expect this clarity will vastly improve the coordination of the Foundations counter-goi and hostage negotiation/recovery efforts while also maintaining the current DEA format of peace-time diplomacy with GOIs

 

[Pyro]

VIP Jobs for MTFs is never going to happen

 

[Shinan]

- support. I'd rather see the return of B-1

 

['Juliet']

+Support

The overlap of duties does seem annoying and having spoken to NU-7 / DEA before, issues sometime arise due to this. Either DEA could be transitioned into NU-7 or NU-7 could be transitioned into DEA.

 

[Ogre]

-support
too much power in one regiment for one person, imo it would only work if B-1 was brought back

 

[Niox]

-support
too much power in one regiment for one person, imo it would only work if B-1 was brought back

BRING BACK BETA 1
+Support

 

[Shark]

Hi! I just have some questions because in my opinion this just seems to be a direct merge between two relatively different regiments/department rather than one specifically crafted for this type of suggestion.

I'm confused of what the "chain of command" structure you had in mind was? Is it the standard regimental rank structure, if so why would "spymaster" job need to exist? Would the "deep cover" jobs be locked to a specific rank? Is there a difference between MTF Nu-7 "Hammer down" jobs and the MTF Nu-7 jobs? Are there specific loadout changes that you're looking for?

I'm concerned about the "Code-1 Response RP" that was put as a positive. At least on the US server, this isn't an issue. Nu-7 and DEA (along with most combatives on-site) assist in code 1s. Counter-intelligence I can sort of understand although keeping in mind that MTF Nu-7 primarily would be a militant battalion rather than a counter-intelligence. Despite this, there is still a subregiment dedicated to this type of thing (on the US server) for Nu-7.

I feel that some of the points of SOP communication I somewhat agree with but I don't believe this is the way to fix it. A blanket "nuclear" option should never be your first go-to when resolving a simple issue of communication between different regiments/departments. I have asked platform team before for a unified SOP teamspeak but it still hasn't been created.

On the US server, the chain of command for hostage negotiation is simple, DEA first unless there are no DEA. There's a good reason for this. We bear all responsibility when it comes to hostages. We will work with other departments/regiments to get important information extracted but we pay for all the prisoners CI capture, it's important that we should come first when it comes to selling them as well.

The point of "Site Administration/Command needs to sign off on it anyways so why not make them do everything" is flawed. This can be applied to too many parts of this server to be a good point. You could simplify so many departments under that umbrella that it becomes a useless "flaw" to point out. DEA should be the primary ones to handle the day to day and longer term diplomatic relations while SA/SC can give their input and sign off. SA/SC are both fairly busy (at least that's the impression i've gotten) as they have to oversee the ENTIRE SITE. It'd be helpful to everyone for DEA to handle relations so it's one less thing for them to worry about.

I feel this suggestion was made without consulting US server at all because a lot of the issues you're describing in this suggestion do not happen on the US server.

This isn't a -Support or +Support, just curious to as your response.

 

[Jorhan Stahl]

- Support
Merging both would be not only a massive inconsistency in terms of power, but an organizational nightmare.

The only proper way to deal with this issue is either keeping DEA as it currently stands, or reorganizing it into it's own regiment (B-1 or making it regimentalized).

This suggestion sadly won't fix any of the issues and will more than likely create even more additional ones.

 

[Jorhan Stahl]

Hi! I just have some questions because in my opinion this just seems to be a direct merge between two relatively different regiments/department rather than one specifically crafted for this type of suggestion.

I'm confused of what the "chain of command" structure you had in mind was? Is it the standard regimental rank structure, if so why would "spymaster" job need to exist? Would the "deep cover" jobs be locked to a specific rank? Is there a difference between MTF Nu-7 "Hammer down" jobs and the MTF Nu-7 jobs? Are there specific loadout changes that you're looking for?

I'm concerned about the "Code-1 Response RP" that was put as a positive. At least on the US server, this isn't an issue. Nu-7 and DEA (along with most combatives on-site) assist in code 1s. Counter-intelligence I can sort of understand although keeping in mind that MTF Nu-7 primarily would be a militant battalion rather than a counter-intelligence. Despite this, there is still a subregiment dedicated to this type of thing (on the US server) for Nu-7.

I feel that some of the points of SOP communication I somewhat agree with but I don't believe this is the way to fix it. A blanket "nuclear" option should never be your first go-to when resolving a simple issue of communication between different regiments/departments. I have asked platform team before for a unified SOP teamspeak but it still hasn't been created.

On the US server, the chain of command for hostage negotiation is simple, DEA first unless there are no DEA. There's a good reason for this. We bear all responsibility when it comes to hostages. We will work with other departments/regiments to get important information extracted but we pay for all the prisoners CI capture, it's important that we should come first when it comes to selling them as well.

The point of "Site Administration/Command needs to sign off on it anyways so why not make them do everything" is flawed. This can be applied to too many parts of this server to be a good point. You could simplify so many departments under that umbrella that it becomes a useless "flaw" to point out. DEA should be the primary ones to handle the day to day and longer term diplomatic relations while SA/SC can give their input and sign off. SA/SC are both fairly busy (at least that's the impression i've gotten) as they have to oversee the ENTIRE SITE. It'd be helpful to everyone for DEA to handle relations so it's one less thing for them to worry about.

I feel this suggestion was made without consulting US server at all because a lot of the issues you're describing in this suggestion do not happen on the US server.

This isn't a -Support or +Support, just curious to as your response.

Pretty much same systems that you mentioned that are on US, are here on UK. Primary issue is the fact that people love to be the "only" body for a specific task, and being unable/ unwilling to find common ground on joint tasks.

This whole suggestion could be remade by DEA, to DEA absorbing Nu7 to remove another body handling same duties.

 

[Broda]

Delete DEA instead

Spoiler

>

 

[Shark]

Pretty much same systems that you mentioned that are on US, are here on UK. Primary issue is the fact that people love to be the "only" body for a specific task, and being unable/ unwilling to find common ground on joint tasks.

This whole suggestion could be remade by DEA, to DEA absorbing Nu7 to remove another body handling same duties.

Ain't that the truth with regards to the finding common ground.

 

[Guts]

Merge DEA with Nu7 or remove one of them outright

They're in general the same, with the only exception being that DEA deals with external affairs (duh)

Make DEA an office job, not combative. Make them liasons or representatives for the foundation, not what they are right now.

 

[Welper]

- support
DEA is its own thing, we are seperate from Nu7 in many different ways and merging a department with a long history (as you yourself mentioned) would not be a good solution to any of the problems mentioned. Its as if you said that GOC and CI should be merged to create one centralised force on surface ( i understand its not the same scale but empthasises how bad this would be!).

We should aim to fix the problems with the departments instead of just merging them and call it a day, espeically when a merge would not be easy.

 

[FinnTheBee]

-Support​

All due respect, this suggestion is stupid and doesn't solve any of the problems both sides have. This will just cause more issues and alienate players.

 

[Biscuits]

-Support
I'd rather DEA be made into B-1 again

 

[Aura]

BRING BACK BETA 1
+Support

Get yer Forum goblin gang on it

OORAH

 

[Pupper]

-support
I'm sure many other DEA members can say the same but, if this ever went through I would quit the server Immediatly, DEA is literally the only reason why I haven't quit the server yet

Your claim about our spawn weapons also isn't true, Our loadouts are very similar with the exception of the spycard, drone controller, and the tools.

 

[Dennid]

-support
DEA into B-1 Fr

But Jorhan has summed up my thoughts pretty much

 

['Kaz']

-Support

---

Allot of the issues mentioned can be solved via policy changes and better communication between DEA/Nu-7 leadership especially if the US side aren't having as much of an issue. Like Shark said this seems to be a suggestion made from only the POV of the UK server and like others have mentioned you seem to have ignored trying to actually fix the issues and have instead jumped straight to a flat out removal. You call it the "most conclusive way" to fix these issues but to me not to sound rude, it seems like a lazy excuse for not wanting to work towards solving the problems that you've mentioned and instead removing it flat out allot of problems on the server could be resolved by simply removing certain things but I believe removals before making attempts at change is a bad way to handle things.

Intel/DEA has existed since the start of the server alongside Nu-7 and has always been the more diplomatic/RP focused side of SOP to my knowledge. Nu-7 haven't had to "sacrifice" anything to co-exist with DEA they've never had it in the first place even so, if Nu-7 themselves felt like RP is being stripped away from them or that they should be the ones carrying out certain DEA duties it is fully up to their own leadership to address and resolve it with eachother.

Some of these points seem to be either irrelevant or partially false especially the loadout comment, DEA has always had not the best weapons as they should considering the number difference between Foundation and CI. Their CL3 agents have the L85A like Nu-7 enlisted and a HK-UMP which is arguably worse than Nu-7's other loadout option. Once you go up a ranks in both DEA/Nu-7 you naturally get better equipment you could argue that DEA has some better equipment on their loadouts like the MK8 or a sticky nade job in exchange for a bad SMG (Fang-45). The way I see it calling DEA's loadout a "very strong" one in comparison to Nu-7 and taking each sides main duties into account is not true however this can be left up to opinion, but both DEA's and Nu-7's loadouts in terms of WEAPONS is very similar. Beta-1's loadout was undoubtedly strong but at the moment that isn't the case with DEA so it dosen't hold any ground in my eyes regarding this suggestion.

Finally again not to sound rude or to insult your work as ECC but you were previously at the very top in terms of command on the server for a long time, did YOU try to fix these issues or speak to other RP leaders such as the DEA Directors, Nu-7 Commanders or even Site Admin before coming to the conclusion months after you've left Site Command that removing DEA and merging it with Nu-7 is the best course of action?

Also after reading Elias's comment I realised I forgot to mention that I am NOT in disagreement with some of the job changes you mentioned such as the more counter intel sounding Nu-7 jobs like CI's deepcover but again I'd like to see those before an entire merge

Sorry for the yap session but I think it's best to give all my thoughts on suggestions as big as these!

 

[elad]

i dont think it needs to be this sophisticated, "spymaster"- why? you're basically keeping the two separate chain of commands.

A better alternative would be to simply add a "Deepcover" or a "field op" job to Nu7, and increase the officer/marksman slots.
The Deepcover and marksman jobs would then only be for those in the Daybreakers subunit, which would promote and revive the dead squadron.