Content Suggestion Move CI KH & Give It To MC&D, CI Can Do W/E With The Original Space

[Emilia Foddg]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:​

Create and implement a map area that would be the lakehouse basement - This could either be accessed directly via physical connection, or a separated area accessed via teleport connection (whether by map object or a permapropped GMObj, inside lakehouse) - Whichever approach Level Design feels is best. The end goal being that this would be a new area accessible from inside lakehouse, which would invariably end up being the "MC&D Basement."

Move the current CI KH setup to this new basement area without removing the original CI KH room itself, leaving the current CI KH area as an empty room with the intention that it would be repurposed with the use of permaprops. Optionally, adjustments can be made to that area to make it more conducive to whatever CI wish to repurpose the space for, such as potentially removing any KH-specific geometry and map props (inc. the railings and ladders etc), and then capping off the pits.

These changes could also be accommodated by a GM-led event wherein MC&D approach CI about buying their KH and moving it to under lakehouse, with the intent to offer them, GOC, and potentially civilians (esp. important for any CI/GOC wanting to practice KH pre-tryout) usage of said KH in the future.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:​

There have been several suggestions asking for various adjustments to surface, CI, MC&D or GOC, such as full base reworks or otherwise major, sweeping map changes/content additions. While similar, this is unlike those suggestions in that it attempts to solve some of the problems they have tried to solve in the past, by taking one part of the map and putting it elsewhere while leaving the original space available for repurposing.

There is also an existing ticket on the public dev tracker to remove some of the training/lecture rooms from Foundation areas, with the intent of encouraging players to roam the site to get to specific areas for their use cases, as opposed to staying within their own departmental/regimental areas and creating a closed roleplay ecosystem. The idea presented in this suggestion is similar, aiming to promote more usage and roaming of surface for a specific purpose, the difference being that the ticket is to encourage in-site movement by necessitating the use of specific areas for tryouts & trainings, whereas this intends a similar effect for both CI & GOC.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):​

• More CI base space to be used how they please
  
  
• Encourages CI & GOC players to roam surface to get to their destination, increasing activity
  
  
• More MC&D space & potential RP involvement without strictly necessitating it
  
  
• In spirit with intended server behaviour (at least, to my understanding - See below)
  
  
• Practicing KH potentially becomes easier for GOC hopefuls

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:​

• Requires significant map changes - Since there was a map update recently, there may not be a timescale for this. May not be possible due to limitations
  
  
• CI & GOC Tryouts become less convenient, more annoying with potentially having to constantly do transports across the map with potentially mingey recruits
  
  
  • Tryouts especially become impossible when an opposing faction is increasing hostilities and attempting to assert dominance over surface - ...Yeah, I don't have anything for this one. This would need some kind of workaround for these specific occasions.
    
    
• Practicing KH becomes harder for CI hopefuls - Although they could potentially flag onto a civ job for this.
  
  
• Where will CI CS spawn? -

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:​

I don't really like making map change suggestions on account of not really knowing what I'm doing. This is a thought I had that I'm not particularly attached to and wondered if the idea is palatable to all involved - This includes Level Design, CI, and GOC.

Some few things I'd like to point out: To my understanding, in the recent past there seems to have been a push on the previously fully OOC status of tryouts, with the intention of making them more IC in some capacity? I don't know the specific nuances of this, and I can see the arguments on both sides for what is ultimately a really weird, grey area thing. I'm not going to particularly say much about that aspect as a whole, but if I'm correct in assuming that there are some aspects of tryouts that apparently need to be made more IC than they are...? Then I'd like to bring up the fact that GOC often tend to use CI KH for tryouts. So this borrowing from CI seems a little weird from that perspective and I'm wondering if having a "neutral KH" instead of the CI KH would alleviate this to some extent?

Additionally, I've often seen the following sentiments from the community:

• "GOC should have their own KH" - I understand the hesitancy on this aspect for several reasons, with the main issues being where you would fit a KH in the very cramped GOC base in a way that would make sense - But also the actual functional problems that come with adding a third KH to the server - The existing KHs are already very buggy & I also don't know how they are performance-wise, but I can't imagine they're good, nor can I imagine that a third one wouldn't negatively contribute to this. While this doesn't necessarily give GOC a KH to freely use for their purposes, I think taking the KH from CI and making it a more neutral KH could be a more feasible solution to this problem.
  
  
• "MC&D should have more to do and more RP opportunities" - While MC&D involvement shouldn't be necessary for tryouts (since it's a paid role, strictly requiring MC&D involvement for tryouts would de facto put both CI & GOC behind a paywall, which is not a good idea), giving them the opportunity to interact with CI & GOC in this way could be a boon to their struggling gameplay loop. As a bonus, there is the additional prospect for MC&D to allow civilian use of the KH (Which as mentioned, could also be how anyone wanting to join CI/GOC practice KH).
  
  
• "CI should have a base rework" - While I appreciate that a full-on rework is not feasible at this time, giving CI more space in their base to repurpose for their uses won't necessarily solve the issues that are the reason why a CI base rework is wanted (as they're to do with the way it's currently laid out), but will hopefully give CI more space that they can do things with. I know that on UK, CI have been very maximal with their space usage, converting several areas into good spaces for RP.
  
  
• "Surface is dead" - IMO it's a little forced? But this should hopefully contribute to livening up the surface a bit.

I forsee the issue being raised of not trusting conscripts/recruits to behave on the way to KH - And to be honest, just make that part of the tryout. If they're gonna screw around on the way to KH, surely this reflects on how they would behave on the way to a raid or even some kind of RP function between GOIs or w/e?

As for other issues like factoring in how often tryouts occur, it potentially taking too long because of the added trip time, the risk of being shot, etc. Given that as I raised above, it's already planned to remove some of the training/lecture rooms from Foundation areas, some of these things also apply there - Not quite 1:1, but if that's still going to happen despite those concerns, then... I imagine that that's intended?

And of course, as for "Why wouldn't CI have their own KH," well, why wouldn't GOC have their own KH? If you're gonna try and say that this makes no sense, things already don't make sense. I'm just trying to make it make less less sense.

Spoiler: TL;DR

These are the facts as I see them:

• CI want a new base - They can't have a new base right now, but they can have more of their current base. KH takes up a lot of space and it's basically only used for tryouts and practice. It's not a new base, but if KH can be reasonably put elsewhere, why not repurpose that room?
  
  
• GOC also want a new base - They can't have a new base right now, either. They also want a KH. They can't have that right now, either. This sentiment isn't fully resolved/addressed by this, but I imagine it would be helpful to some degree.
  
  
• Some people want more stuff for MC&D. MC&D are not a focus of the server and are often misused.
  
  
• There's not enough to do on surface.

For these reasons, MC&D Killhouse? It's no panacea, but it's probably the most palatable thing that can be reasonably brought to the table right now. My question is whether or not this is a good or a wanted idea. Keep in mind that what is wanted is probably not going to be doable for a very long time. This probably won't be doable for a long time, either. Or at all. It's not really the solution you want, but you need to take into account what you can get at this time. That is of course, assuming that this is a reasonable change that can be made at the time. This is something I doubt.

My advice is to start pushing for the smaller nudges in lieu of the big ones for now. I think that we as a community want entirely too much and need to start thinking smaller. I don't know. We just have a bad habit of asking for really high-effort things like full base reworks.

 

[Harry]

- support

This is an, interesting suggestion, also prob wouldn’t work with the map size idk

 

[Aphex]

-Support

Remove GM Plane 2 instead, it's fucking useless outside of abusing fog

 

[Emilia Foddg]

This is an, interesting suggestion, also prob wouldn’t work with the map size idk

Remove GM Plane 2 instead, it's fucking useless outside of abusing fog

...Could potentially repurpose the space that GM Plane 2 takes up for this area? I didn't realise 2 was so disliked, that wasn't the impression I had of it when I was on the team.

 

[Harry]

...Could potentially repurpose the space that GM Plane 2 takes up for this area? I didn't realise 2 was so disliked, that wasn't the impression I had of it when I was on the team.

If we are going to repurpose the space of a GM plane it’d be on a major thing. Can’t afford anything like this really