Donator
This concept is going to be difficult to try and get across, so try and bear with me as I attempt to write it out. This also ended up being one of my infamous long suggestions in an attempt to try and elucidate the idea and its importance. Sorry! 
Although I can't really engage in discussion in the replies to elucidate it right now as I am presently subforum banned and not able to reply to threads, so hopefully I'll be able to put this across in a way you can understand.
So with that example in mind, the DoR (& deputy?) would be able to whitelist players (and unwhitelist) for this, but instead of it being its own job, it's essentially a flag that applies to Sr. Researcher. When a player with this whitelisted flag selects Sr. Researcher, they get something similar to the loadout selection thing that DEA/ISD/SRU jobs have (although it would need to be compatible with it to allow for it to potentially be applicable to existing jobs that have this selector, which itself is highly unlikely, but it's better to be prepared than run into the issue later), which essentially allows them to toggle whether they want to flag as Sr. Researcher, or Specialist Researcher. When they flag onto Sr. Researcher with this enabled, their job title would show as a Specialist Researcher where applicable (keycard, tab menu, etc.), and going by this post, they could be allowed to auth Jr. Researcher credits, etc. etc.
I should very clearly restate that the idea of the Specialist Researcher was being used as an example. What I'm asking for here is the system itself. So, a job (or series of jobs) flag that can be whitelisted by specific higher-in-the-hierarchy jobs, which gives the visual impression of being a new job (without being a new job) primarily for RP purposes where IC responsibility can be appropriately allocated to this "job", where in some cases they can have some potential minor content alterations/allowances that players on that job, whitelisted for that flag, with that flag enabled, can do, related to its purpose on the server.
Some other examples of where this could potentially be reasonably applied:
...Hopefully that got the idea across.
The former was denied for:
The latter was given a simple acceptance and there's no ticket for it - While I agree that the Surface Mechanic idea could warrant a new job, I feel that for the latter, applying an implementation like this to the normal civi job could be more appropriate (and potentially preferable)
There's also this presently active suggestion by @Author asking for a Surface Mechanic job, however as I state above, I think that idea warrants the addition of a new job.
This also references a previously denied suggestion by @Ouroboros asking for a CL4 Thaumatologist job for those that have both the relevant VIP perk and the Executive Researcher whitelist, which was denied for:
I get if this idea is too intimidating to even think about trying to implement, would probably need to massively overhaul vast swathes of vJobEditor to even begin to make something like this work - However this is a primarily RP-focused addition and if properly executable, I strongly believe the benefits of this will outweigh the potential issues both along the way and as a result of its addition.
EDIT: I also realised that there's a potential problem for gang mentality/walled-garden exclusivity type behaviours with certain additions resulting from this, i.e. "Nah, you can't come Tech Expert here because you're not one of the special Tech Experts we designated to specifically only be allowed to do this specific thing" unreasonably denying RP to players based on basically nothing - My response to this is is that this is not only a thing that happens in other areas, but is also (sufficiently?) policed? I'm reminded of instances of F denying RP to GOC to the point where SL had to step in and be like "why are you doing that, stop doing that." I also think this is just already possible with the whole thing where whole swathes of RP groups have made a bunch of Google Suite-backed RP roles and they can just do that that way?
I acknowledge the issue with this potentially being seen as validating that behaviour? And the possibility of exacerbating the issue? Especially in the early days of its use? I think this implementation would need to be handled with extreme care to try and mitigate this as much as reasonably possible - However! However. I think that in cases where stuff like this is being misused for the reasons I state, having actual visual indicators that plays can record more substantial evidence of this abuse and point to ,making it easier and clearer for Staff to understand where something like that is happening, I think could possibly help address and cut down on it? Along that line of thought, maybe also consider a rule where you can't ICly enforce a RP roles permissions and authority if it only exists externally. I think something like that would be within the spirit of the server and how things are supposed to be here? There's room for a lot of things both ways and at the end of the day, you can't really change the fact that the way players are doing things right now, is based on solely external information and I think it's to an extent that's not desired or within the vision of the server? With something like this, you may be able to catch things that aren't okay and deal with them sooner. I'm not sure how to get this across without talking in circles - Hopefully it does come across and you can see how this would be helpful in that regard?
Please tell me I'm not crazy and I'm onto something here
I've been stewing on this idea for over a month and only now am I able to put it into good enough words that I still don't think fully get what I thought of, but I'm confident enough in to try and propose it as an actual thing that could be a thing if it's well-received enough to be developed, you know? Please, I need validation. Tell me I have some semblance of a good idea here, I'm losing it. I can feel it, there's something here, but like, like... You know? I don't know how to express this, but this is honestly the strongest I've felt about a concept that I've come up with in a while. I think this could be really interesting, fun, provide reasonable value and be a unique GMod RP server feature thing that would make the server really cool and different and fun and stuff. Help
Although I can't really engage in discussion in the replies to elucidate it right now as I am presently subforum banned and not able to reply to threads, so hopefully I'll be able to put this across in a way you can understand.
What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
To try and get this idea across, I'm going to use the example of the denied Specialist Researcher idea that I raise in the next section to try and get my idea across:So with that example in mind, the DoR (& deputy?) would be able to whitelist players (and unwhitelist) for this, but instead of it being its own job, it's essentially a flag that applies to Sr. Researcher. When a player with this whitelisted flag selects Sr. Researcher, they get something similar to the loadout selection thing that DEA/ISD/SRU jobs have (although it would need to be compatible with it to allow for it to potentially be applicable to existing jobs that have this selector, which itself is highly unlikely, but it's better to be prepared than run into the issue later), which essentially allows them to toggle whether they want to flag as Sr. Researcher, or Specialist Researcher. When they flag onto Sr. Researcher with this enabled, their job title would show as a Specialist Researcher where applicable (keycard, tab menu, etc.), and going by this post, they could be allowed to auth Jr. Researcher credits, etc. etc.
I should very clearly restate that the idea of the Specialist Researcher was being used as an example. What I'm asking for here is the system itself. So, a job (or series of jobs) flag that can be whitelisted by specific higher-in-the-hierarchy jobs, which gives the visual impression of being a new job (without being a new job) primarily for RP purposes where IC responsibility can be appropriately allocated to this "job", where in some cases they can have some potential minor content alterations/allowances that players on that job, whitelisted for that flag, with that flag enabled, can do, related to its purpose on the server.
Some other examples of where this could potentially be reasonably applied:
- As stated in the next section, Convenience Store Worker. In this instance, instead of someone having to whitelist someone else for it, it would just be something everyone can do on the standard civi job by default without needing a whitelist, giving flavour to and potentially broadening the depth of civilian RP without adding job bloat. You could feasibly do things like 'Pub Owner.'
- Also as stated in the next section, a method of implementing "Executive Thaumaturges," in which players with both the relevant VIP perk and the Exec whitelist could flag onto Thaumatologist and using this flag, be an Exec Thaum, which would basically be having a CL4 keycard on the Thaumatologist job, but they'd visually appear to be an "Executive Thaumatologist."
- Although I understand that this is already a thing, this would be a good way to implement regiment COs having CL4 keycards on their CL3 regiment jobs? I don't know if that's still planned.
- This could potentially be used to merge the VIP Operative ISD job with the non-VIP Agent ISD jobs? Basically the way you'd implement this is take the loadouts from ISD Operative, stick them onto Agent with this flag requirement, make the flag dependant on having the relevant VIP perk, double the slot limit and then axe Operative from the job list. This concept also applies to the VIP & non-VIP DEA jobs, too. With this overall, I do see the issue of the job needing to be available for VIPs since they paid for this and if 10 non-VIPs are on the job, then that's not fair to them - Only thing I can see that could help there is an AFK kick system that kinda works like priority join, but for flagging onto the job.
- Regimental/Departmental/GOI subdivisions/subgroups/etc. In this case, I would not advocate giving any special content privileges to purely RP groups and more strongly advocate these being entirely aesthetic RP little name badge thingies used for IC purposes (although that being said, there's some parallels to the Specialist Researcher that I can't particularly ignore but have no idea how to reconcile), even as I see you shaking your head at the notion, this has the benefits of reducing the need to "put ___ in your name" freeing up characters that the player can put in their name, as well as potentially reducing reliance on the Google Suite.
- I acknowledge the potential concern of "how will this work with AO when they're supposed to have fully redacted job titles and such" and it's like, well for starters, this idea actually being applied in this way specifically is a long shot anyway, but like when you boil it down, it's like... It's just a single word/number identifier that's mostly going to be used internally, anyway. It wouldn't mean anything outside AO and if people try to metagame it, well then that's metagame. Like IDK how to argue this with you since I was always against the concept of (re-)redacting AO in the first fucking place... It's just stupid.
- I acknowledge the potential concern of "how will this work with AO when they're supposed to have fully redacted job titles and such" and it's like, well for starters, this idea actually being applied in this way specifically is a long shot anyway, but like when you boil it down, it's like... It's just a single word/number identifier that's mostly going to be used internally, anyway. It wouldn't mean anything outside AO and if people try to metagame it, well then that's metagame. Like IDK how to argue this with you since I was always against the concept of (re-)redacting AO in the first fucking place... It's just stupid.
- And yes, @Zen, E&TS.
...Hopefully that got the idea across.
Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
This is a sort of soft re-opening of a previously denied suggestion by @Alex Redmont asking for a new whitelisted role between Sr. & Exec. Researcher, as well as a previously accepted suggestion by @Checkedsauce7 asking for Surface Mechanic & Convenience Store Worker jobs, but rather than asking for those things specifically or new jobs at all, seeks an alternate way of implementing those/similar ideas via a larger, general and more flexible blanket implementation that doesn't involve adding new jobs specifically while still expanding on roleplay.The former was denied for:
I can see it - Even though I fundamentally disagree with this reasoning and still hold the stance I present in that thread's discussion, I can understand the hesitation behind adding an entirely new job with no real content to it, that carries only roleplay value. Hopefully the idea I present in this thread provides the stated benefits of that addition that were discussed in that thread, without incurring the job bloat that makes Content so hesitant to implement it - I am wary of the sheer scale of development that would be required to achieve what this suggestion asks, however the more generic and broad application of this feature is hopefully appealing enough that it is sufficiently worth the endeavour.
The latter was given a simple acceptance and there's no ticket for it - While I agree that the Surface Mechanic idea could warrant a new job, I feel that for the latter, applying an implementation like this to the normal civi job could be more appropriate (and potentially preferable)
There's also this presently active suggestion by @Author asking for a Surface Mechanic job, however as I state above, I think that idea warrants the addition of a new job.
This also references a previously denied suggestion by @Ouroboros asking for a CL4 Thaumatologist job for those that have both the relevant VIP perk and the Executive Researcher whitelist, which was denied for:
I see it, and I get the problem with job bloat and such, but I disagree with the misuse aspect and reaffirm the stance I raised in that thread, also. I think the concept I outline in this thread would be an appropriate way to fulfil that general concept, which I still agree with.
Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- + A way to add new & clear RP signifiers/positions RP-wise/job functionality, without functionally adding new jobs and causing job bloat - See this discussion in the Specialist Researcher thread about giving players certain stopgap roles as part of a line of progression to show that they're trusted, without making them CL4/leadership roles
- + Massive positive implications for the future of heavily focused RP-departments like RSD which could benefit greatly from this system
- + Potential for reducing existing job bloat.
- + Potentially reduced reliance on the Google Suite
Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- - Massive Dev Time. The Dev Time to end all Dev Times - Potentially unimplementable to an eldritch, unknowable degree as I barely grasp the concept, myself.
- - Major unforeseen bug potential - How would this interact with 914? Defibbing? Being turned into other jobs (049-2, 008-2)? What if job drop wrong thing?
- - Abuse
Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
If executed right, this concept could potentially be a golden goose for Content & the server overall. Imagine being presented with a good job idea that would genuinely be good, useful, helpful to the server environment, fun, etc., but you need to weigh it against the overwhelming mountain of "what makes this different from X job? what model do we use for it? what content should we give to this job? loadout, etc." And this can end up just being something configurable by SL+ or w/e on a job by job basis.I get if this idea is too intimidating to even think about trying to implement, would probably need to massively overhaul vast swathes of vJobEditor to even begin to make something like this work - However this is a primarily RP-focused addition and if properly executable, I strongly believe the benefits of this will outweigh the potential issues both along the way and as a result of its addition.
EDIT: I also realised that there's a potential problem for gang mentality/walled-garden exclusivity type behaviours with certain additions resulting from this, i.e. "Nah, you can't come Tech Expert here because you're not one of the special Tech Experts we designated to specifically only be allowed to do this specific thing" unreasonably denying RP to players based on basically nothing - My response to this is is that this is not only a thing that happens in other areas, but is also (sufficiently?) policed? I'm reminded of instances of F denying RP to GOC to the point where SL had to step in and be like "why are you doing that, stop doing that." I also think this is just already possible with the whole thing where whole swathes of RP groups have made a bunch of Google Suite-backed RP roles and they can just do that that way?
I acknowledge the issue with this potentially being seen as validating that behaviour? And the possibility of exacerbating the issue? Especially in the early days of its use? I think this implementation would need to be handled with extreme care to try and mitigate this as much as reasonably possible - However! However. I think that in cases where stuff like this is being misused for the reasons I state, having actual visual indicators that plays can record more substantial evidence of this abuse and point to ,making it easier and clearer for Staff to understand where something like that is happening, I think could possibly help address and cut down on it? Along that line of thought, maybe also consider a rule where you can't ICly enforce a RP roles permissions and authority if it only exists externally. I think something like that would be within the spirit of the server and how things are supposed to be here? There's room for a lot of things both ways and at the end of the day, you can't really change the fact that the way players are doing things right now, is based on solely external information and I think it's to an extent that's not desired or within the vision of the server? With something like this, you may be able to catch things that aren't okay and deal with them sooner. I'm not sure how to get this across without talking in circles - Hopefully it does come across and you can see how this would be helpful in that regard?
Please tell me I'm not crazy and I'm onto something here
I've been stewing on this idea for over a month and only now am I able to put it into good enough words that I still don't think fully get what I thought of, but I'm confident enough in to try and propose it as an actual thing that could be a thing if it's well-received enough to be developed, you know? Please, I need validation. Tell me I have some semblance of a good idea here, I'm losing it. I can feel it, there's something here, but like, like... You know? I don't know how to express this, but this is honestly the strongest I've felt about a concept that I've come up with in a while. I think this could be really interesting, fun, provide reasonable value and be a unique GMod RP server feature thing that would make the server really cool and different and fun and stuff. Help
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