Content Suggestion Perma Weapon Toggle in Spawn Menu, Part 2

[Zen]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Adds a basic perma weapon toggle switch for each equipped perma weapon type in the spawn menu (the one that appears when you die or switch jobs, with the CCTV display, faction player list, and Spawn button). This would be similar to the option to switch between loadouts on jobs like SRU.

This would just be a simple on/off toggle - one for each equipped perma weapon type - which would apply when you spawn and be saved until you change it again. This wouldn't allow you to select which weapons you have equipped, it would just allow you to toggle on/off whether you should spawn with the ones you do have equipped.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Yes, this was directly suggested before here, but since then, it has been clarified by Yeke here that having a perma weapon equipped is an entirely IC thing, and you can be arrested for having one when you're not allowed to. The old rejection reason also outright does not make sense, as is addressed in the negatives of this one, below.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):

• Allows you to actually handle IC stuff fully IC, and OOC fully OOC
  • You spawn on your non-combative jobs without them, because you'd have no IC explanation as to where you got them, rather than having to go to the armoury on that character to hand in the weapons you just magically acquired from nowhere. Your actions on one job should not affect your IC status on another - those are different characters. Using info from another job is metagaming, so why is using a weapon from another job just how the server works?
• Convenience when switching jobs
  • If switching to/from a non-combative job, you can toggle the weapon off to avoid having a weapon with no IC reason/source very easily and quickly.
  • If switching to/from a combative job where you don't want the perma to replace a certain job weapon, you can avoid that.
• Avoids accidentally having permas when you shouldn't
  • It would be easy to accidentally forget to go to the armoury and unequip a weapon when switching to a non-combative job. Especially if you left the server on a combative job and then came back to go on a non-combative job. Having a simple, clear spawn menu option would allow you to avoid accidentally doing this.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

• Supposedly, having to go to the armoury is RP that shouldn't be removed
  • I disagree - this is entirely an OOC server function causing unintentional IC circumstances. If I never acquired a weapon on e.g. Senior Researcher, I shouldn't have one just because I didn't go and unequip it on a different job and character.
• Supposedly, this would reduce reliance on the armoury NPC
  • ... and? You still use it for changing perma weapons, so it's not as if it has no use, and this also isn't an actual issue even if it were the case. The invention of the home computer reduced reliance on pen and paper, that doesn't mean we should throw the computer out.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
This would prevent OOC stuff having IC impacts, even if it's minor, and would generally be a useful QoL feature.

 

[YandereMuffin]

Wow +support

I love spawning with a full machine gun as a non-combative who would never fire a gun in their life - if content team denies this it will only reduce RP.

The old one was blocked for the reason of:

We as content feel that this is not a necessary feature on the server, as it would decentivise visiting the armourary NPC in the respective areas as a whole.

And although this was a while ago and content has changed a lot, I think to frankly make the same mistake to deny this with the same reason would be poor.

This does not decentivise visiting an NPC (well it does, but that doesnt matter) - what it would incentivise is for a person to RP out what weapons their characters would actually carry, rather than every random non-combative spawning with a gun.

 

[L.Saint]

+Support

 

[Niox]

+Support

 

[Emilia Foddg]

There are a lot of non-combative jobs that spawn a fair distance away from the armoury NPC they're at least guaranteed access to - i.e. Tech Expert/Engineer, because even though they're right next to the Nu7/DEA armoury NPC, there's always the fact that either there might not be any of them on to escort you to it, or if there are, that they might deny you with decent reason - Thus they would have to travel to the NPC in SS, from EZ.

That's a pretty unreasonable distance to go to just unequip your perma, IMO. Additionally, there's also the conundrum of; Since having a perma is an IC thing, you could be stopped and weapon checked along the way, with the weapon checking party not going with your justification of something like "putting your weapon away" and would just detain you on the spot (Another good example could be Janitors, since on UK they spawn in CS closet (This could also potentially apply to RSD roles?) and their route to the armoury NPC takes them past ISD, which gives a not-insignificant chance of this happening). Honestly, I would understand someone LTARPing in that kind of situation. That's not fun at all, nor do I believe it to be within the spirit of what the server's about.

I don't feel like having an avenue for this kind of 'gotcha' RP is reasonably permissible. I think a serious choice needs to be made between:

• Having your perma weapon on you is an IC thing and you can be punished IC as you would if you had a weapon from any other source on a role that is not supposed to have that category of firearm. (Which IMO does make sense. You can't just have a weapon on a non-combative job that is not actionable against IC for OOC reasons. That's mixing? Meta? One or both of them.)

and

• Whether or not you have your perma weapon is decided specifically only at the armoury NPC - Which is a form of RP and must be preserved as strictly the only way that you are able to equip or unequip your perma. (And my understanding for the rationale behind this decision is that implementing any kind of new perma weapon functionality including toggling it on or off would be difficult for a considerably minor thing)

I firmly believe that these two things are fundamentally incompatible, for reasons already stated.
(Nuclear Option: Remove LTARP as a rule entirely :schizotroll: )
I also believe that the nature of this situation and implications that this has on RP & gameplay both outweigh the hassle this may be to implement. I'm not sure if this is a Core Dev thing? My understanding is that the spawn menu is a part of vWar? And as such, making an alteration on this level would require direct changes to a core addon? I'm mostly just guessing, trying to figure out what kind of stuff might be in the way of this being a thing.

Anyway, overall the problem is that we've written ourselves between a rock (Difficulty of implementing this) and a hard place (Can't not punish someone for having weapons on a job that's not supposed to have those weapons). I should make it clear that doing nothing about this is not really good option either, as since the onus is on the player going onto the non-combative job to not have a perma they shouldn't have, then they need a reasonably high level of accessibility to be able to comply with not having that perma when they shouldn't. Yes, the armoury NPCs exist, yes they can go to them. No, it's not enough. Yes, I agree that adding more armoury NPCs may contribute to unnecessary bloat and is also not a good solution to this dilemma.

Alternative & completely unhinged solution that I don't think will satisfy anyone, but I'll put forward anyway: Give more existing NPCs the perma weapons menu option. The tutorial researcher in RSD wing? They can now manage your "science firearms". The medical quest NPC? You guessed it, controls to manage your suite of lead injectors. Just go nuts. There's your quick and dirty solve.

+Major Support