Possible Changes to Raiding [CG]

[Alp]

Hello,​

The senior staff team has been considering making some changes to raiding to possibly improve and change the raiding meta. These changed would come in the form of the removal of hex shields, and considerably altering the building rules about defences. We would like some feedback from the community before making a decision.

Our reasoning​

CG has needed some significant changes for some time now, especially when it comes to improving the experience of new players. This has been especially clear in the past few weeks, with the playercount taking a significant dive. Currently, it is practically impossible to raid without hex shields, with most raids requiring around 6, and all raids needing a minimum of 3, one for each fading door. That is basically 60k that someone must spend to even stand a chance at winning the raid. Although the price may seem reasonable for old players, 60k is a lot for people who have just started playing, and this mechanic effectively discourages them from raiding until they are much more experienced, removing a critical part of DarkRP in the early stages of a player's time on our server. We hope these changes will freshen up the raiding meta, and lead to more interesting raids for old and new players alike.

Rules we would add if we removed hex shields​

3.9 - One ways - You are not allowed one way defences made using the world glow color in your base. One ways made using store front props are allowed.
3.10 - Visibility - You must be clearly visible to raiders when you are shooting them. The raider must be able to reasonably return fire.


Please take a minute to answer the poll, and if you would like, give us a more detailed response down below.

 

[Majestick]

Amazing!

 

[Snazz]

Having hex shields removed, and no one ways does make it more rp and a lot fairer.

 

[JFK]

I dont think hex shields should be removed, even with the new rules yous suggested because atleast now if you have good enough people you can possiblely raid a mega base for example. Maybe with smaller bases no hex shields could be an option but even if you add the one way and visability rules it doesn't matter when there is 20 people in one base all defending.

 

[Cawer]

I dont think hex shields should be removed, even with the new rules yous suggested because atleast now if you have good enough people you can possiblely raid a mega base for example. Maybe with smaller bases no hex shields could be an option but even if you add the one way and visability rules it doesn't matter when there is 20 people in one base all defending.

+1

 

[JFK]

Maybe a rule where people have to put a sign up saying how many people are in thier base to determine whether you can use hex shields or not to help newer people with smaller bases. For example if there is over 5 people in a base only then can you use hex shields. Idunno sounds good and stupid at the same time.

 

[Jwcsg]

I just think it'll just make it harder to raid. I've tried it on another server but they had riot shields+deployable crackers, and no hp stacking. I found that way harder than cg raiding.

What are raiders supposed to do during cracking/waiting for hackphone cooldown? there are people, with stacked hp, inside firing from all angles. Might have a chance if the raiders had riot shields but you'll still get shot from another angle.

I don't see a new player being able to raid a base without hexes, even if the new rules were implemented.

 

[CRD716]

Quick and dumb suggestion after a little thought. KoS sign must say solo(duo?) or group, you can't use hex on a solo(maybe duo?) base. Might be worth looking in to.

 

[royalty]

I don't see why the rules should be altered for new players? they join the server full well knowing they are not the richest neither most experienced. and that is one of the challenges, trying to beat players who have more so you can get more and eventually become the richest. bending each rule to a new players advantage in my opinion makes it even easier for long time players, having hexes gives no advantage to an existing player, you throw a bubble down. it doesn't require any money value besides the purchase price which is very obtainable in a few minutes.

Some rules, yes, they should be altered to give new players a better hand. but that would defeat the purpose and ruin the entire meaning of being a 'newbie'. making it so grounds are fair between a player of 4 years and a player of 4 minutes gives the new players a huge advantage. they would learn the new metas that are easier where as the OG players would have to adapt to something completely different from what they have been doing for years. in turn, making the OG players (in this case) the now 'new players'.

I mean no hate towards the final decision I just think all points need to be analysed before a conclusion is made. I hope you understood what I was trying to achieve.

(Hopefully this is clear, this is not directed towards just the possible basing change rules, but to the whole aspect of balancing the rules in favour of new players )

 

[Vox]

I believe it’s a great alternative (and is obviously more realistic) but at the same time, I think that raiding should involve some sort of skill in it. On the new player side - with the hex shield expenses and such - my suggestion is to add a long term timer which adds a certain amount of money onto the hex shield price depending on how long that certain player has spent their time on the server.

This would therefore make it so that players aren’t able to use them in trades, nor can they drop them for other players to use to avoid new players and experienced players alike making profit of hex shields.

 

[ConfuseD]

Yeah I think the CG staff team is focusing on the wrong thing here. The reason the server has dropped in playercount is because of multiple reasons: COVID-19 gave it a good boost in players but now the lockdown restrictions are not at strict, Garry's Mod is an aging game etc. I think what would help is some advertising for the server to increase playercount and get it out to players who might not know about it. You can't expect a constant flow of new players coming from nowhere in a game that is over a decade old, it's just not how it works. Trying to dumb down the game mechanics so that new players can get a better experience is just a bad idea imo. Most of the server population are regular players who know how to use hex shields and can afford them. As Billy said in the post above mine, giving them a solid reason to stay such as Vorgs 2.0 is probably one of the best ways you can make a player return to the server. In conclusion, I think it's a bad idea to change a set of rules and game mechanics that has been in the server for years so that "new players" can have a better experience while the regular players are the ones who suffer.

 

[Hydro]

I just think it'll just make it harder to raid. I've tried it on another server but they had riot shields+deployable crackers, and no hp stacking. I found that way harder than cg raiding.

What are raiders supposed to do during cracking/waiting for hackphone cooldown? there are people, with stacked hp, inside firing from all angles. Might have a chance if the raiders had riot shields but you'll still get shot from another angle.

I don't see a new player being able to raid a base without hexes, even if the new rules were implemented.

One thing this post doesn't mention is the freedom that we get by removing one-way props. It's entirely possible that we can add suits of armor as well as loads of other content to balance this content without making it impossible for new players to participate in the server. We don't really have that sort of freedom if we continue down the path we've taken thus far. We can also tailor the rules around more fair and skill-based attack/defence as opposed to the current system of unloading bullets into a hex shield until its time runs out.

Yeah I think the CG staff team is focusing on the wrong thing here. The reason the server has dropped in playercount is because of multiple reasons: COVID-19 gave it a good boost in players but now the lockdown restrictions are not at strict, Garry's Mod is an aging game etc. I think what would help is some advertising for the server to increase playercount and get it out to players who might not know about it. You can't expect a constant flow of new players coming from nowhere in a game that is over a decade old, it's just not how it works. Trying to dumb down the game mechanics so that new players can get a better experience is just a bad idea imo. Most of the server population are regular players who know how to use hex shields and can afford them. As Billy said in the post above mine, giving them a solid reason to stay such as Vorgs 2.0 is probably one of the best ways you can make a player return to the server. In conclusion, I think it's a bad idea to change a set of rules and game mechanics that has been in the server for years so that "new players" can have a better experience while the regular players are the ones who suffer.

Some of the points you've made here are fair, but they're true for all the wrong reasons I think. You say that the server is full of people who can afford hex shield, and this is probably true, but the reason for this being true is that new players aren't staying long enough to even give the server a proper try. The fact is that if you can't afford hex shields/armor/bonus hp, that you aren't going to be able to raid a base. We need to spread our effort among both sides of the spectrum; content should be engaging and fair for new players, but rewarding for experts and large groups. VOrgs2 is going to be fantastic once it's added, but we need some fresh blood in the server to enjoy.

Lastly, it's worth noting that the statement of GMod being 10 years old and dying out isn't accurate. The point about it dying out simply isn't true, as our two other servers are doing fine, and many other servers in the Garry's Mod community are doing just fine. I think we've become a bit complacent as a server, and I think some real and genuine change may be enough to relight the fire that kept so many of us in the community for so long already.

 

[Darkos]

I personally think raiding is extremely easy right now. If you have 1/2 a brain you get into the base every single time then it just becomes a gun fight inside. I personally would love to see this change. I think what people have to remember is back in the day before hexes the server still had one ways, and we did absalutely fine. It will be a new challenge and imo much more fair. Raids will need to be more tactical than "ok who goes first, ok ill hex through the whole thing, ok so we jammer and shoot". Freshen it up
(There would ofc need to be some testing and re-balancing with regards to max hp when basing and the shooting holes but I think it'll be fine)
I would just like to add, without being big headed, the CGSF can get into any base close to 100% of the time with minimal effort using hex shields. To me this says that base design is null and void versus PD. With this change it would reward, good base design, smart defence and also use of different weaponary and tactics from both sides since hex shields aren't negating the entire base.

 

[Reaper99]

i do think its a great idea but i feel like you forgot some other perspectives such as shooting hole sizes and hp stacking maybe those should be reduced and looked into aswell along side some other defend / raiding privileges we have now

 

[Hydro]

i do think its a great idea but i feel like you forgot some other perspectives such as shooting hole sizes and hp stacking maybe those should be reduced and looked into aswell along side some other defend / raiding privileges we have now

Nope! Haven't forgotten about those, infact we've had discussions about this before. It's just this thread isn't all-inclusive and fully detailed.

 

[Reaper99]

Nope! Haven't forgotten about those, infact we've had discussions about this before. It's just this thread isn't all-inclusive and fully detailed.

aight good to know i just like to think along

 

[DrWelp]

Yeah, having to buy hex shields suck, the base owner has such an advantage while the raider can only shoot blind. Also will freshen up raiding.

 

[Noah Kraus]

I dont think hex shields should be removed, even with the new rules yous suggested because atleast now if you have good enough people you can possiblely raid a mega base for example. Maybe with smaller bases no hex shields could be an option but even if you add the one way and visability rules it doesn't matter when there is 20 people in one base all defending.

We have no hex shields on cc but we can still raid mega bases, even though it is significantly harder you can still get in leaving a challenge to the raiders other than using hex shields but that is just my interpretation there might be something completely different with basing on cg so don't quote me on anything.

 

[mihailo2121]

I hope hex shields are removed. Or atleast hex countering becomes allowed, because currently, the hex shield is an encounterable device which benefits those who have loads of money to begin with to spend

 

['a' TS Kenny]

i do think its a great idea but i feel like you forgot some other perspectives such as shooting hole sizes and hp stacking maybe those should be reduced and looked into aswell along side some other defend / raiding privileges we have now

I've been looking at other servers rules compared to ours and we have tiny shooting holes.

Changing the shooting holes to be at least models/props_combine/breenbust.mdl size would give a raider something to aim at.
Other servers are using the Breenbust H x W but we could use alternatively use models/props_c17/tv_monitor01.mdl

What about another raid throwable?
You would throw it down like a jammer and it would make a mirrored version of your player model.
it will be able to follow your movement, copy what weapons you have out. Pretty much be a decoy.