Rule Suggestion Rule 1.1 Clarification for Civilian Trespassing

[Kito]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Clarifies that Foundation and Global Occult Coalition personnel may not immediately kill Civilians within their base that aren't breaking rules(such as Parawatch entering Site-65), unless the individual is armed, hacking, or otherwise posing a threat to someone's life that isn't their own.

This forces both GOC, and F security, to RP with the trespasser, leading to more RP conducive action overall for both sides, since Parawatch(and other Civilian roles) require an RP reason to enter the site, while the GOC, and F security, do not require an RP reason to kill them if they are trespassing, which I believed to be in violation of Rule 1.1, but an Admin specified it wasn't, in which this rule clarification was suggested.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not to my knowledge.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+ More RP between Civ. / MTF or Security.
+ Can lead to RP conducive firefights in appropriate scenarios.
+ More accurate to what the Foundation would actually do, specifically the motto "we die in the dark so you can live in the light".

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Civilians might shoot Foundation on sight.
- Civilians might end up feeling like fighting disguised D-Class personnel occasionally.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I believe it is more RP conducive with a clarification on this rule being instated, as there is some genuine confusion of players getting warned for killing Parawatch on-sight inside the facility versus Admins saying it isn't against the rules. Thanks!

 

[Niox]

+Support

 

[ToasterStrudels]

+Support

 

[Biscuits]

+soup

 

[Sceptre]

Mixed Support
Whilst it would encourage more roleplay, what happens if consistent problems are arising? DEA's gameplay loop should not consist of hunting for civilians in the site, detaining them, interrogating them and then amnesticating them, there's much more to it than just that, and this takes a long time in itself to do in each case.

Furthermore, the rules on 'entering foundation with a valid rp reason' often get stretched unbelievably, I've seen cases of RANGERS entering because "they saw a man enter the vents" which has been seen as an acceptable reason, then somehow leading to rangers going around and ending up in HCZ.

 

[Prplex]

People just use it to avoid roleplay half the time and cause half the civs seem to think they're rambo the other times

 

[Guts]

People just use it to avoid roleplay half the time and cause half the civs seem to think they're rambo the other times

80% of Civs entering the site are new players that don't even know how to respond properly or just here to fuck around

15% is there to go on a rampage

5% is CI

 

[Niox]

DEA's gameplay loop should not consist of hunting for civilians in the site

you guys already do this, but instead of cuffing them and amnesticating them you just shoot them

 

[Biscuits]

you guys already do this, but instead of cuffing them and amnesticating them you just shoot them

we dont shoot most civs!!!

 

[Niox]

we dont shoot most civs!!!

then this rule doesnt change anything!

 

[Billy "Villager" Bob]

you guys already do this, but instead of cuffing them and amnesticating them you just shoot them

As a special agent myself I can asure you that I only shoot when they break out after warnings not to do so or if they pull guns. And if someone shoots them in cuffs its an IC issue. Also only MC&D, Parawatch and rangers are allowed to enter according to the rules. So about 66% of the people who enter are/can be armed.

 

[grunger]

If they're just standing there, non-violent, unarmed and compliant, sure. You could implement something to protect them. I've never personally seen this problem on the US site since most civilians disobey orders to stop moving or are outright gunning people down, justifying killing them, but I've rarely ever seen a true "kill on sight" of a civilian. Don't think this needs to be a rule, maybe an IC policy which the US site also had to issue a few months back.

 

[DaveDogs]

+Support

 

[Kito]

As a special agent myself I can asure you that I only shoot when they break out after warnings not to do so or if they pull guns. And if someone shoots them in cuffs its an IC issue. Also only MC&D, Parawatch and rangers are allowed to enter according to the rules. So about 66% of the people who enter are/can be armed.

If they're just standing there, non-violent, unarmed and compliant, sure. You could implement something to protect them. I've never personally seen this problem on the US site since most civilians disobey orders to stop moving or are outright gunning people down, justifying killing them, but I've rarely ever seen a true "kill on sight" of a civilian. Don't think this needs to be a rule, maybe an IC policy which the US site also had to issue a few months back.

People just use it to avoid roleplay half the time and cause half the civs seem to think they're rambo the other times

Civilians who are wielding guns would be exempt from this rule as they are intentionally being combative; Additionally, the only near-pear equipment that can be acquired by any allowed surface job to enter site is that of MC&D, who is incapable of selling said equipment to Rangers or Parawatch.

The most you will face versus Parawatch is an SMG, but they also are not given armor at all. Rangers get a similar level of combativeness, more so then Parawatch as they spawn with armor, but they are still at a disadvantage with a substantially worse weapon.

This rule would change nothing for those who actively engage in RP with Civilians, but would effect those who simply KOS Parawatch, in which that Parawatch might have made several documents or procured a genuine reason to infiltrate the site, before being immediately killed without any justifiable reason aside from the fact it is an "in-character" issue and they were trespassing.

I strongly believe that members of the Foundation should want to protect the Civilians of Pinewood, including those who trespass, and the entire purpose of amnestics on the server is to allow for a non-leathal response to Civilians or other information breaches.

 

[Archangel]

-Support

I Myself find plenty of Civs trespassing so i give them the Shoot right away treatment.

They could be armed, they could be CI, But most importantly they TRESPASSED into a "Military" Site, it is never a good idea to do that especially considering the important things they have in such areas and when i go to not shoot them instead take them alive, i get shot at 90% of the time and there's more of them than me.

 

[Shark]

is this not already a thing?

 

[Hypnotoad]

All I have to say is the fact that this is covered within Roleplay by the Code Of Ethics (1.09) I would prefer that this remain in RP so that people breaching such rules can be dealt with within RP as well ?‍

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

+support killing civilians serves no purpose but to make it more obvious they are hiding something in the military base

 

[Glazzing]

+support
pretty sure it's already RDM to do this anyways

 

[Kevin Ki]

-/+mixed

I LOVE the rp of cuffing a dude ignoring fear rp, struggling to walk him up to surface because they're pressing every button on the way, wasting class A on him just for him to come back in and repeat it all 10 minutes or less later all to be futile because documents don't show up with a weapon checker!

As for the other civilian classes I've just started having admins send them back because they shouldn't be inside in the first place and I ain't wasting class-A or my time walking them up.