Rule Suggestion Surface Trespassing Rules Update

[Zen]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Updates the surface trespassing rules from:

3.05(a) Surface Jobs Trespassing Rules - Mayor, Gun Dealers, Chefs & Medics are forbidden from entering the Foundation base, Chaos Base or UNGOC base without an Invitation from the respective RP leaders (LTCOM+, GOC LT+/CI DELCOM+).

Parawatch, Ranger, Civilians & MC&D may enter with a valid reason.

3.05(b) Surface Jobs While Trespassing - Parawatch, Rangers, Civilians and MC&D are not permitted to 'raid', or enter the Foundation to cause destruction and kill Foundation staff.

In order to justify these individuals entering the Foundation, they must have articulable knowledge of the site and a realistic reason to want to enter. None of these jobs are permitted to assist other groups with raids or enter the Foundation to kill.

• Surface trespassers after death have an NLR period in the entire Facility of 15 minutes.

to:

3.05(a) Surface Jobs Trespassing Rules - Civilian faction jobs are forbidden from entering the Foundation base, Chaos Insurgency base, or UNGOC base without either in-character belief that they have been invited in by a member of that faction, or an active threat forcing them to do so (e.g. an SCP attacking, or being shot at).

3.05(b) Surface Jobs Trespassing Exceptions - Those on the following jobs may also enter any of the three faction's bases if they have articulable knowledge of the base, and a realistic reason that they would want to enter:

• Parawatch
• Ranger
• MC&D

None of these jobs may assist other groups with raids, or enter the Foundation to kill. Players on these jobs may not trespass in any faction's base for 15 minutes after dying in any faction's base.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not to my knowledge.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):

• Slightly clearer wording
• Allows possibility of civilian jobs trespassing in GOC and CI bases.
  • As it is, this is completely forbidden. Rangers aren't even allowed to e.g. enter CI base after being shot at by CI.
  • I've heard of Rangers in the past raiding GOC base, so it seems like this rule has either changed, or was already not being enforced.
  • Removes a ruleplay element. Surface RP is less needlessly restricted.
• Removed specific restriction that only certain ranks/roles can approve civilian job entry means less forced FailRP.
  • As it is, if e.g. a Nu-7 SGT says that a civilian may enter the compound (e.g. to talk about something they've seen), they literally can't. They don't have any IC reason as to why they can't, but are OOC prevented from doing so. They can't even really make up a sensible IC excuse, because there's no reason they wouldn't be able to enter after being invited by CAF at the gate.
  • A random civilian probably wouldn't know of the CI command structure. They would have no idea what a "DELCOM" is, so they can't even articulate IC who is allowed to invite them without metagaming.
• More flexibility (or clearer understanding) in who can invite surface jobs into bases. Anyone can, and any restrictions are just based on IC policies, as they should be.
  • Right now, it seems clear that some higher level DEA should be able to invite people into the site/compound. But it just says "LTCOM+", which makes it very up to interpretation, if they aren't just actually forbidden from doing so (which would be ridiculous). Does LTCOM+ mean that only MTF LTCOM/COM, and their direct superiors like SA can invite people - or that anyone on the level of LTCOM and above can do so? The former would mean that only LTCOM+ of any MTF can do so, and the latter would mean that they plus any department director can, i.e. the Director of Research could invite a random surface chef into the site.
  • In reality, this should be less restrictive in OOC rules, with civilians just being able to enter if they believe they have been invited in by someone they think IC can do so, and any restrictions on who can actually do so should just be based on IC policies.
• Less restrictive invite permissions just makes sense.
  • Why would a Nu-7 NCO not be able to allow a civilian to walk into compound so they can talk about something privately?
  • Why would a CI-D not be able to invite a gun dealer into their base to trade?
  • Why would a GOC SGT not be able to allow the mayor into the FOB reception area to talk about Pinewood, or wait on a CO to arrive?
• Removes "Civilian" (i.e. Citizen) from list of jobs able to trespass with a reason.
  • This change was (afaik) never announced, and doesn't make sense. Why would a random civilian that isn't a member of e.g. Parawatch want to trespass on a military base, but only if they don't work as a chef or a medic or whatever. Either allow all civilian jobs, or only the specific three that already had specific reasons.
  • I'm fairly sure the actual job is called Citizen, not Civilian, so the existing rule would be wrong, anyway.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

• Lower level faction staff could invite people into their bases when they shouldn't.
  • This can just be dealt with using regular FailRP rules and IC policies, e.g. they might get arrested by ISD. It doesn't need to be even more restricted to the LTCOM level. Just let people do what makes sense.
• Allowing trespass into CI/GOC base is a bit different, given they are much smaller. Maybe not fair on them.
  • Maybe, but imo the RP would just make more sense if allowed.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Overall makes the rules on this a bit clearer, and less needlessly restrictive. Basically just a QoL rule change for surface jobs (both civilians and the three factions).

 

[Dusk]

+Support on surface changes but,

Why not just put a different type of Keycard requirement on surface level ventz, like CL1 or something and have MC&D be able to craft foundation items from various things done on MC&D? He could then sell and trade with CI/GOC/F for different items that do different things.

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

Allows possibility of civilian jobs trespassing in GOC and CI bases.

• As it is, this is completely forbidden. Rangers aren't even allowed to e.g. enter CI base after being shot at by CI.

Gulp.
I've broken into every base as Parawatch

 

[Tylenol Smith]

This suggestion is some how gonna be locked in around 20 minutes since im giving feedback +Support makes it clearer since alot of staff say different things on who can enter and who can't. Infact I have heard from like a sr mod that any surface job can enter but then an admin told me thats not true when i called a sit to make sure. There is so much stuff that needs to be clarified and I like the idea of making rules more coherent and complete.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

+Support
Good. One minor thing I would say:

either in-character belief that they have been invited in by a member of that faction,

I know this is implied, but since you do like explicit wording in your rules, I would suggest something like

justifiable in-character belief

which adds further clarity and nips in the bud a minge potentially attempting to get around the rule by pedantry and pass off FailRP as roleplay, which is what the majority of rules are primarily intended to prevent in the first place. (I mean obviously in this scenario, said minge would obviously be warned anyway regardless of what they tried. The lack of a single word's presence does not make you immune to the spirit of the rule. My thinking here is that this would make it that little bit easier on staff.)

I otherwise see no apparent issues with this wording.