Partially Accepted UNGOC Base Change

Content that has been partially accepted
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Sam Johnson

Civil Gamers Expert
Oct 17, 2023
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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:

This suggestion is to propose a set of changes to the UNGOC Base, which go as follows:

a) The UNGOC Bunks | Spawn Room change | Base arrangement change

At the current moment in time, there is nothing wrong with the Bunks room itself, but with its positioning. During raids, when attempting to exit the bunks, UNGOC Operatives are faced with a 3 way kill corridor. One might argue that you could compare this situation with the CI Bunks, however there's a few notable differences. Firstly, the corridors that have a look into the CI Spawn are often tight and narrow, making it hard to have more than 2-3 people inside of each corridor to efficiently stop CI Pushes. Secondly, it is quite hard to efficiently "hide" from the CI in spawn as, when the door opens, they have a perfect view of the outside of their spawn.

Going back to the UNGOC Spawn, the situation is completely different. Once exiting spawn, you might notice that there's protrusions to the left and right preventing you from seeing anything directly to the left and right of the spawn. This makes it so people can (to great efficiency, I might add), simply hide behind the left and right corners after the UNGOC Spawn, especially the LEFT one. This is because the immediate outside of the UNGOC spawn is a large open space where enemies have good cover (boxes immediately to the left, entire meeting table with chairs, perfect place for shield on the right corner | Ptolemy Labs entrance, which is, again, perfect place to place a shield and have a perfect view of the spawn). This, coupled with the perfect arrangement from the front, where attackers have both natural cover (Chef Solomon and his ovens alongside the hiding protrusion at Gens Office) and perfect places to put shields (Corner where the hacking practice keypads are, the little brick pillar in front of the blast door) leads to an unnecessarily difficult experience pushing out of the UNGOC Bunks during raids, where the attackers have the absolute perfect position to counter any pushes outside the bunks. One might call this a "skill issue", however, with an even half decent raiding team that has active medics healing anyone who's getting injured during pushes, the UNGOC can be held in spawn for considerable amount of times not necessarily due to lack of skill (you may, again, call this coping, and to some degree it is), but also due to the perfect arrangement of our base to specifically make it hard to push out of bunks once the raiders got past the raid defenses.

The suggested change to the UNGOC Base is either to remove the protrusions to the left and right, which would allow us to *actually* see what's outside of our spawn instead of going in blind, or change the layout of the base to either match the L Shape of CI's base with tight corridors which would make holding GOC in their spawn at least not as easy as it is now. Alternatively, another layout proposal could be considered, making the UNGOC base into various shapes such as circles, rhomboids, or an assortment of corridors with diverging rooms for various purposes e.g labs, medical section, interrogation, etc.



b) The "General's" "Office" Problem

I won't extend this argument too much, however calling the General's Office an "Office" is an insult to the word office itself. Taking usable space in square meters into account, I don't think I'd exaggerate to say that even the janitorial closets of Foundation (the one next to MTF Loop, Inanimate Vents or 914 Vents area) have more usable space than the General's Office. Not only that, but this usable space problem is exacerbated by 2 sets of Glass Panels that *severely* restrict how many people can be in the General's office at one time. For anyone planning to use voice chat over text, it can be considered a genuine chore to find a correct arrangement to get more than 3 people to be able to speak to one another in the office without needing to crouch on the printer, a table or some document drawers, which, obviously, in RP would look ridiculous. Your alternative is to talk through glass panels to one another, because cramming more than 3 people in the General's office is a disaster waiting to happen, as the room is precisely 3 people wide at its widest. During an event where a PNEUMA investigator came to talk to us, me, a Captain, and the Investigator were having a private chat in the Generals Office (the only place in the UNGOC Base, mind you, where Enlisted | NCO's can't get inside without a CO to let them in). A word of note as well that, for being the highest clearance locked door in the entire base, you can easily hear what someone's talking inside, even in situations where they're at the deepest part of the Gen's office. Unless they're sticking to the farmost wall | unless they're whispering, you can hear text conversations from outside, now back to the PNEUMA Investigator event. I was standing next to the General's Chair, the Investigator was standing next to me and the Captain was technically outside of the office due to the glass panel separation, and the whole scenario was very comical to watch unfold from this perspective of positioning. Expanding the General's office & removing the glass panels would go a long way towards helping the UNGOC hold high-importance meetings in private instead of using the UN Embassy which, mind you, is available to the public (e.g Civilians, Rangers, etc) On that matter, a low level office in the embassy is way more suited for meetings than the Private office of the General of the Entire FOB, but I'll leave you to ponder on that one.



c) The PTOLEMY Labs

While not using comparative terms to sweat-shops, the best way I could describe the UNGOC Research | Chemical Labs is "using every single minuscule usable square nanometer". This leads to quite the crammed work environment where, to efficiently use its lab to its full potential, only 2 people can be in there at a time. This is because most utensils (Bunsen Burners, Vacuums, Centrifuges) are all so comically close to one another that it is exceedingly difficult to get 2 people to work at the same workstation, leading to one person having to manage everything at the same time, considering the workstations are surrounded at least 270 degrees by working space and share a Beaker holder for 2 workstations for chemicals that make the beaker float away into the abyss.

This tight space also means that other amenities had to take the leave to allow for even the things we currently have to be possible, meaning we don't really have any place to conduct surgeries, checkups or anything of the sorts related to medical RP. Patients are simply going to have to sit on working space next to a washer and chemical analysis device, which is not very immersive. Mentioning the PTOLEMY labs without taking a look at GOC's Heavy Containment Zone would be a sin, and this space also takes the cake for one of the worst-designed spaces for anomalies ever. Considering that the ECT Machine and the Infection Scanner are both in the Heavy Containment Zone, at least 50% of the working space is immediately removed. That, alongside, granted, a conveniently placed beaker holder, takes away another 5%. For larger anomalies, such as 682, this leads to the entire room being almost fully covered, making it difficult to find beakers or anything of the sorts while sampling. Mentioning sampling, getting more than 2 GOI's to sample the same anomalies borders on insanity, as the room was clearly not made with the intention of having more than 2 occupants sampling an anomaly at the same time, leading to people losing their beakers taking the wrong beakers because there's not much space when there's multiple people who want samples. Going back to the ECT and Infection Scanning Machines, it would appear that the working space in the HCZ Room is infact *SO* small, that their patients simply decide to phase out of reality. Every use of the ECT Machine and Infection Scanner has to come alongside a staff sit, because the patients, without fail, will always be teleported into the ceiling | into a wall.

The proposed changes for the PTOLEMY labs is to either split it into multiple smaller separate lab rooms or expand the lab itself, as everything is quite crammed very tightly as mentioned beforehand. You could alternatively do something akin to CI's base, where they have 2 labs and one room dedicated to medical staff.


d) Interrogation Room

For being the room where, allegedly, High Value Targets | Kidnappees are meant to be kept, it sure is the easiest place to get to during a raid. Literally speaking. It is precisely next to the entrance, and the immediate area outside of the Interrogation room is an easily defensible corridor by any raiders who wish to rescue their friend. This seems highly counter-intuitive, but I'll overlook it. What I won't however overlook is the extreme simplicity of the interrogation room itself, alongside as usual the space complaints. Not only is this interrogation room (you might've noticed I used singular) the ONLY interrogation room in our base, but it is also only suited for interrogating one person at a time, not being large enough for multiple kidnappees. This can lead to situations where kidnappees can communicate with one another and discuss strategies, to the point we have to use the HCZ to separate them, an area that I've already mentioned is problematic. A proposed change is to either expand the interrogation room to something akin to CI's large room they use for prisoners, or create multiple rooms for interrogation.


e) Miscellaneous Proposed Changes to the UNGOC Base

-Add a Paratech Workshop for engineering roleplay related to maintaining, repairing and creating Paratech.

-"Beautify" the aesthetics of the GOC Base. Currently, it looks like a depressive abandoned bunker from the Chechen war that we've just moved into 1 week ago and haven't had the chance to properly renovate. The grey-brown bricks say all that needs to be said. Replacing it with some more modern looking materials and adding a little more lighting to the base would go a long way.

-Add an office | room specifically reserved for COs where the CO Fridge would also be. Make the General's office be part of such a room as a separate section so GOC can have private meetings with other factions without having to do it in a public place in the FOB where every single Enlisted | NCO can freely peer.


-Add a training room for PHYSICS | shooting range to be possibly used for HWL and Snipers Licenses.


-Add a separate HCZ area with measuring instruments of sorts. The closest thing I could compare to something Foundation has would be SCP-457's room Containment Chamber and Observation Room. This would replace the current HCZ area which, as stated already, is a hybrid between a medical room and an actual HCZ. Move the ECT and Infection Scanner to, hopefully, a new Medical Oriented Room.

-Remove the gas tank (?) and trees to the left of garage (if looking at it from the front) and instead make it something akin to a refugee area with bedrooms & a small medical office, you could simply use the beds we currently have in the tryout room next to AA. We already sometimes take Foundation personnel in our base during Code Blacks & Civilians during wars with CI, might as well have an appropriate area to keep them in rp, rather than having them stand in garage.

The purpose of these suggestions is to actually turn the GOC base into an actual fully-functioning base, instead of a crammed dollar store fob, which is precisely the only way I can describe the current state of our base without exaggerating too much.


-This might possibly be the most controversial part of this suggestion, however here goes. To my knowledge, during the time when Biscuits was General, a proposal came forth about something called the "Safty Pin". The "Safty Pin" would be, from what I understood from back then, a 1 MT Nuclear Warhead in the GOC Base to be used in emergency situation. I understand how this could be controversial, so my suggestion isn't to give GOC a nuke that can be turned on and actually has an effect on surface, but to have it as a special CL5 coded room with the warhead itself for roleplay purposes, giving people an actual reason to raid the GOC base to find out about it since, as of right now, there's more or less 0 reasons to raid our base beyond kidnapping people. This warhead can't be detonated by anyone in the GOC base, with the IC explanation being that only NEXUS could authorize its deployment. (Yes the mispelled "Safety" appears to have been intentional)

The logic behind such an addition is as follows: for monitoring the literal largest containment site on the entire American Continent, our FOB is comically underprepared for such a task. While we are aware of the fact that the Foundation Site *DOES* have a Nuclear Warhead onsite, we're not fully sure of whether or not the CL5 staff present onsite are or aren't dead during a severe Code 5 | Code Black, and when 4 anomalies get up to garage after we've already been authed for QRF and ERT is dead, we would most likely cut our losses to prevent the anomalies from breaking out to the greater Saskatchewan region to prevent a Mission 2 failure. One could argue that Strike Teams could be scrambled to deal with it, however I'd like to point out that the GOC doesn't have as much supremacy over the American continent in terms of manpower and control as it does with Europe, so it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect that a completely isolated region such as Pinewood would have Strike teams have to travel quite a bit to get to it. Having to explain a terrorist nuclear attack is much simpler than explaining why there's a burning man, Neil Armstrong with reality bending powers, a massive angry lizard and a ketchup dog attacking population centers, e.g a mission 2 failure. Considering there's 2 major population centers in Saskatchewan, e.g Saskatoon and Regina, it wouldn't be a stretch to assume that the GOC would rather lose an FOB and ~ 65 men over having a Mission 2 failure.


Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:

I believe for a fact that GOC base reworks have been suggested before, but I haven't found any suggestions that matched the points I made.



Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):

-Spawn change will prevent instances where the UNGOC realistically can't leave their spawn and can lead to raids that are unnecessarily long where the raiders simply stay to kill the UNGOC again and again due to the ridiculous positional advantages raiders get.

-General Office Problem being fixed will allow people to actually hold meetings in the Generals Office privately, leading to the UNGOC base being able to be used for meetings between high ranking personnel more often instead of the UN always just having to go to other people's bases.

-PTOLEMY Labs change will give more space for medical roleplay assuming a separate room is added specifically for it, since as it is, we have absolutely nowhere reasonable to conduct anything medical-RP related. Changes to the labs will also help ease our efforts in making chemicals and will create a bit more room to an otherwise quite crammed space, all things considered.

-Having more interrogation rooms | a larger interrogation room will prevent us from having to take multiple hostages all across the base because we genuinely do not have anywhere else to take them. Interrogating someone in the Advanced Armory isn't...really the best...

-Adding a paratech workshop will expand passive roleplay for other factions coming to look | investigate what the UNGOC is doing in there | will provide more opportunities for engineering-related roleplay within the UNGOC.

-It was already mentioned, but having an entire office | cubicle complex room , something akin to what CI have, specifically for COs would give us an actual comprehensive space to store relevant documents, as of right now, relevant documents are all within a complex of document drawers in the Gens office, which mind you, is a CL5 biometric.

-Removes the CL5 more or less unhackable biometric at Gens office, replacing it with a coded CL4 for CO's office and most likely another coded CL4 for Gens office inside the CO's office, turning them into STRONG Hacks which, to my knowledge, most of the server is trains on.

-Training room for PHYSICS | Shooting range | for atmosphere building | licenses for heavy weapons or sniper trainings.

-Separate HCZ area with measurements for retrieved SCPs for more roleplay...there's not much research we can do when our workspace is 55% occupied by ECT's, infection scanners and a beaker holder.

-Passive roleplay if the Safty Pin room is added for those trying to find out about it both in GOC and other GOI's. General immersion, even if no one can actually detonate it.

-Would expand GOC's toolset of roleplay they can engage in with the new added facilities, seeing as we are a faction mainly created for passive-roleplay and the sorts, our base is literally the main thing holding us back at the moment from doing such. At the time of writing this suggestion, we more or less 80% depend on other factions to conduct our roleplay since our base doesn't give us much room or facilities to play around with in any way shape or form.

-Last but not least, one might claim that this update would benefit "only" the UNGOC, but I would like to draw your attention that this will also benefit *anyone* who enters the GOC base as well. The current reason not a lot of roleplay happens specifically *INSIDE* the UNGOC base is because....there's genuinely not a lot to roleplay with inside our base. We don't have really any working space in our research labs and...alongside the Embassy, which consists of 2 small square rooms, that's really as far as the roleplay oriented rooms in our base go.



Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

-Possibly lots of development time. Due to player count, I'm at least partially certain the GOC isn't exactly in the spotlight of attention when it comes to developments for us.


Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

-While I understand that the GOC is certainly not the spotlight of the server, for a faction that was designed mainly to be focused on passive roleplay, storytelling, and that possibly, alongside the SCP Foundation, by using the lores of the 108 Council and the varied assets of the UNGOC, has the largest toolset of roleplay potential, our base severely limits us from achieving any of that due to its limitations, and I believe at least some parts of this suggestion should be accepted to help us in conducting the roleplay which we were always told we were meant to conduct, be it from our FOB, or while interacting with others.
 
⚠️You have alerted the Level Design Team.⚠️

Certainly braver than I am. Last time I tried anything like this, it didn't go so well for me. Admittedly, what you have here is distinctly more compelling than what I have had to say related to mapping changes, in my time in the community.

I agree with the general premise of what's presented - GOC as a faction needs exclusive things to interest people in it; Content in terms of interesting and appealing things they are able to do, actions they can take that no-one or few others generally can, of which it has a significant amount of (Various mixes of both conceptually and in practice) and tangible content in terms of... I guess, resources it can utilise to its benefit in RP. It definitely has a handful, but I agree that its weakest asset right now, is its actual dedicated section of the map. And when you look at everything GOC has going for it, it's not hard to understand why it's struggling to retain player interest as a faction. What's the point of joining GOC when yes, you get cool RP and cool RP opportunities, but that's somewhat ancillary to these very limited things you can only do in certain occasions, etc. etc. - And this map area that is overall uninteresting after you've been there once; Then when you're in it, you mostly just want to... Not be. It has the makings of something that wants to be more than it is and I feel that potential is desperately looking to be expanded upon.

That being said, GOC is not the core focus of the server (Nor should it be) and the thing is, you can only have 128 people at most present on the server, at any given time. So when you start making one area of the server's roleplay environment more appealing and engaging, you potentially do so to the detriment of others. It's a very unfortunate zero-sum game that would like to be avoided, but ultimately it needs to be factored in somewhere.
I'll be honest when I say I haven't read a thing about this suggestion, and quite frankly I do not care enough to.
One thing I can suggest that may fix some issues, is just moving around shit in your base. You can't fix its layout, but your spawn room is huge. Put some more shit there, place some walls down to seperate it a bit! I'm sure any reasonable Sr Admin would be willing to assist. I mean, it's what CI did with our CO office, I don't see why you guys couldn't move your base around a bit.
Last time I saw GOC base, this was exactly the case with how it was. They used the space. I'm unsure if it's still the case. So that in particular is more of a US skill issue.

I ultimately agree that it is in need of a rework and most of what I want to say about this has already been said. I would also agree that it is not (and should not be) a priority. I personally would be fine if I were to return to the server within the next year or two and things in this regard would still be the same. I would understand.

=/= N/A
 
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⚠️You have alerted the Level Design Team.⚠️

Certainly braver than I am. Last time I tried anything like this, it didn't go so well for me. Admittedly, what you have here is distinctly more compelling than what I have had to say related to mapping changes, in my time in the community.

I agree with the general premise of what's presented - GOC as a faction needs exclusive things to interest people in it; Content in terms of interesting and appealing things they are able to do, actions they can take that no-one or few others generally can, of which it has a significant amount of (Various mixes of both conceptually and in practice) and tangible content in terms of... I guess, resources it can utilise to its benefit in RP. It definitely has a handful, but I agree that its weakest asset right now, is its actual dedicated section of the map. And when you look at everything GOC has going for it, it's not hard to understand why it's struggling to retain player interest as a faction. What's the point of joining GOC when yes, you get cool RP and cool RP opportunities, but that's somewhat ancillary to these very limited things you can only do in certain occasions, etc. etc. - And this map area that is overall uninteresting after you've been there once; Then when you're in it, you mostly just want to... Not be. It has the makings of something that wants to be more than it is and I feel that potential is desperately looking to be expanded upon.

That being said, GOC is not the core focus of the server (Nor should it be) and the thing is, you can only have 128 people at most present on the server, at any given time. So when you start making one area of the server's roleplay environment more appealing and engaging, you potentially do so to the detriment of others. It's a very unfortunate zero-sum game that would like to be avoided, but ultimately it needs to be factored in somewhere.

Last time I saw GOC base, this was exactly the case with how it was. They used the space. I'm unsure if it's still the case. So that in particular is more of a US skill issue.

I ultimately agree that it is in need of a rework and most of what I want to say about this has already been said. I would also agree that it is not (and should not be) a priority. I personally would be fine if I were to return to the server within the next year or two and things in this regard would still be the same. I would understand.

=/= N/A
US GOC has swapped our spawn and training room, don't know what you and Niox are on about.
 
Sep 10, 2023
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Where the fuck did you get 220 from? i think UK and US combined have 220 max currently lmfao.


No... what? "There's no RP in our base that can't be done elsewhere" of course there won't be, what are you asking for here? Foundation to not have some things so you can be the only place where it can occur?

I'll be honest when I say I haven't read a thing about this suggestion, and quite frankly I do not care enough to.
One thing I can suggest that may fix some issues, is just moving around shit in your base. You can't fix its layout, but your spawn room is huge. Put some more shit there, place some walls down to seperate it a bit! I'm sure any reasonable Sr Admin would be willing to assist. I mean, it's what CI did with our CO office, I don't see why you guys couldn't move your base around a bit.

Anyways, GOC rework and base update will come eventually. Probably at the bottom of the list, GOC will always be the minority, but one day it'll arrive.
.... Just from reading this I can tell you have no idea what way the US UNGOC Base is laid out like.

They quite literally already have a vast majority of the spawn room in use. For example

Separated area for NCO+ to store documents
Rift Bridge
Hacking Panels
Dispenser
Ammo box

Unless they want it to look just like the medbay, where every square inch needs to be used, they can't realistically put more stuff in (Without SSL getting upset about high levels of props)
 
US GOC has swapped our spawn and training room, don't know what you and Niox are on about.
.... Just from reading this I can tell you have no idea what way the US UNGOC Base is laid out like.

They quite literally already have a vast majority of the spawn room in use. For example

Separated area for NCO+ to store documents
Rift Bridge
Hacking Panels
Dispenser
Ammo box

Unless they want it to look just like the medbay, where every square inch needs to be used, they can't realistically put more stuff in (Without SSL getting upset about high levels of props)
to make it clear, your current spawn is the big double door room pointed at the entrance BD, right?
Because you can definetly fit a lot more than just a dispencer, hacking keypads, ammo box, rift bridge and NCO area. The place is huge!
If it's really too much, move the rift bridge to the chem lab area, put it in a corner there behind the BD like GOC base.

And no, I don't know what US GOC base looks like in the slightest, but from what you've said, spawn doesn't sound that overfilled, same with UK GOC base.
 

Sam Johnson

Civil Gamers Expert
Oct 17, 2023
7
8
61
to make it clear, your current spawn is the big double door room pointed at the entrance BD, right?
Because you can definetly fit a lot more than just a dispencer, hacking keypads, ammo box, rift bridge and NCO area. The place is huge!
If it's really too much, move the rift bridge to the chem lab area, put it in a corner there behind the BD like GOC base.

And no, I don't know what US GOC base looks like in the slightest, but from what you've said, spawn doesn't sound that overfilled, same with UK GOC base.
I think any faction's spawn area should be dedicated to just being....that. A spawn area. No clue what US GOC does with their spawn area, but in UK GOC we have an added space for testing on KTE's simply because HCZ in PTOLEMY Labs just doesn't cut it, which consists of the main part of our bunks. The other parts are taken by drawers, actual bed-bunks, an armory, dispenser, ammo box and a small meeting space with a table , 3 chairs and a printer.

We are definitely using our spawn to its maximum efficiency, considering that it was mainly meant to literally be just a spawn area.

Implying that we have to "use our spawn space more proficiently and proactively" simply strengthens my point that our base doesn't have enough space for all the things we should be doing, to the point where we have to start using our spawn for things that can't be fitted into our base otherwise, which is already something we do.

You could argue that the testing space in our bunks could be used as a makeshift space for Gen Office, a little impromptu medical room or whatnot, but that's not fixing the underlying issue, it's just putting a bandaid on it at the expense of another thing, e.g testing space for KTE's.
 
Sep 10, 2023
376
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to make it clear, your current spawn is the big double door room pointed at the entrance BD, right?
Because you can definetly fit a lot more than just a dispencer, hacking keypads, ammo box, rift bridge and NCO area. The place is huge!
If it's really too much, move the rift bridge to the chem lab area, put it in a corner there behind the BD like GOC base.

And no, I don't know what US GOC base looks like in the slightest, but from what you've said, spawn doesn't sound that overfilled, same with UK GOC base

Ah yes. We shouldn't use our spawn area as a spawn area.
 

Verlocity

Head Moderator
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SCP-RP Staff
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Hi @Sam Johnson ,

Thanks for taking the time to make a server suggestion.
We discussed this post at today's content meeting. We agree that GOC does need a rework and it is something we are doing in the future.

This is something we are interested in, however currently we don't really have dev resources in order to this anytime as they are working on other projects.

This suggestion will locked and moved.
Thank you for making this suggestion​
 
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