Why the changes are /not so good/

[Dr Random K.]

Here we are
For anyone wondering, this is what this is about:

1. Assistants lost IA comms
This does not make sense because Assistants are mediators to all departments for their respective Site Command. They have access to all other department comms as well as E-11 and Nu-7 to properly function in their positions. Why exclude IA from that?
Supposedly, someone on UK abused this. Guess what, it has not happened on US and from what I know is an isolated case. So deal with the perpetrator instead of needlessly crippling a role

2. Remove Assistant and ISD ability to use the arrest NPC
I can't comment for UK, but there has not been a problem with US ISD arresting anyone (from what I know of). As it stands, at least on US, the Ethics Committee is in charge of the Code of Ethics and the O5 Council are in charge of the Code of Conduct, and their respective ISD (internal security department) enforce it if they see violations. This duty is literally outlined in both ISD's documents which were approved by Site Command. It intended design for them, based on proper roleplay.
It is not like this will stop us from doing it either. If we see someone break Foundation laws, we will still arrest them.
What changes is that we now need to call our Site Command or an IA to come to interrogation and type whatever reason and duration we tell them.
It does not create rp, it just creates extra work for IA and ISD with no good incentive.
Now if we were told to simply ignore foundation laws being broken and make an AOS instead then... that would make no sense in rp? Why would we let someone just get away with their crimes and give them the chance to escape?
If there were some sort of issues with ISD arresting people on UK, because afaik there weren't any on US, then that should be handled appropriately instead of restricting it on both servers.
If it's an actual problem on UK, speak to their Site Command and find solutions with them. Don't just go over everyone's heads and make bad decisions. Please.

 

[Glazzing]

I HATE the new changes, also remove turret from F2, EZ, and lobby bad change too

 

[Dr Random K.]

(this is my personal take, others might have different criticism (or find this change good, ig))

 

[Glazzing]

(this is my personal take, others might have different criticism (or find this change good, ig))

they should make it so a1 and OSA can't arrest or look at IA comms cause noob

 

[Gizzmo]

I haven't seen a single person who responded positively to the change and explained how it benefits the server. All I've heard is it takes away from IAs gameplay loop, but the people ISD prosecute are usually above IAs jurisdiction or information level. This means IA are kept out of the process till the very end where all they get to do is press E on the jailer and put in a time/reason. They get to be a middleman and waste both their own, and the ISD's time.

 

[cityismy]

I do not like this change as an ECA for a few reasons, as ECAs we assist and represent the committee and the committee oversees internal affairs, for an ECA not to be able to see IA comms would be like if a site advisor couldn't see E-11 or Nu-7 comms, another reason this is bad is ECAs can no longer call AOS on IA comms, They would either have to use CL4 to contact someone to call it out on IA Comms or tell it to IA on CL3 <ECA-IA> which could lead to metagaming which could be hard to prove in some cases

 

[Neptune]

Just putting this here now. PLEASE give reasoning so we can note it down and talk about it in our next meeting. Thank you @Dr Random K. for making this!!

 

[Mars]

i dont like all changes except the keter and euclid scp prices, they're good

 

[Dr Random K.]

i dont like all changes except the keter and euclid scp prices, they're good

the thread is about the isd/assistant changes bruh

 

[Dr Random K.]

Ive also been told that @"Recker" (US Director of IA) did not have any issues about this brought to him either, and wasn't made aware of this change prior to its implementation? Just goes to show that if it's an issue, then it's isolated to UK
We on US are always kind and sweet

 

[Johnathan Doe]

ECA’s was already handicapped when the weapon checker and intero tool was removed leaving them unable to properly conduct some investigations. With the removal of the ability to use the arrest NPC it feels as if the role is a glorified bird watcher / paper boy. At this point remove the role all together or rework it to where there is a purpose for the job that makes it worth while working towards or being active on.

 

[Edwin]

Feedback pending review​

---

Hey everyone,

Thank you everyone for taking the time to give your feedback. The Content Team will review all the feedback given at our next meeting. I would like to stress the fact that everything is not set in stone. Once again we appreciate the feedback and will use it to consider our next steps.

This post will be left up for players to continue to respond.​

 

[Wrath]

This change came out of no where and is just not justified. SL have stated this was an issue with UK ISD arresting people, however, from what I have heard when I asked, UK ISD has never been told that. SL is saying there is a massive issue with ISD power tripping and arresting people on UK, however instead of UK SL addressing this concern with UK ISD, it now effects the US playerbase.

Removing permissions should be the last resort, not the first one used to address an issue. No one has ever been told this was an issue, yet permissions get removed instead of warning or working with UK ISD to figure out an issue.

Additionally, it is quiet literally the job description of ISD to enforce their branches Code of Conduct/Code of Ethics respectively. You have completely removed this ability.

SL has also stated that this was a CL5 decision, yet Pyro has stated that this issue was NEVER addressed to US. Additionally, ECMs on US have said that this has NEVER been an issue discussed.

Lastly, two issues regarding the internal affairs gameplay loop argument.
1: If other people cannot make arrests, your argument is that the IA gameplay loop is sitting in interro, waiting to be told to arrest someone, typing in "Murder 1" 20 mins then waiting for the next arrest. The grand reality is IA have a bunch of tools at their disposal like disguise cards and agreements with departments that allows them to do their own investigations and handle things. IA hate being called to interro because it prevents them from doing what they were doing, and at least on US, they rarely showed up when called.
2: SL has stated that this issue was brought up by IA multiple times and thats why the permission was removed. After speaking with the US IA department director he has said the only time he thinks ISD should NOT be using the arrest npc is when IA is on and actually going to interro. Additionally, he has said he was never consulted, and this change was made without his knowledge or approval. Additionally, both SC and DOIA on US have said they have NO ISSUE with ISD making arrests. This really makes it seem like SL pulled the permissions


It literally seems like SL was just caught in a lie and removed this perm for no reason. The original argument was that CL5 approved it, then CL5 said they didn't, then it moved to this is an issue on US and UK, then US and UK players say its never been an issue addressed with them, lastly it moved to IA complained, yet the US DOIA has literally said he was never consulted on this issue, and that he disagrees with the change and believes both ISD and Assistants SHOULD arrest people

I'm going to get flack for saying this as a staff member probably, but the player base right now at least on US server feels extremely isolated from SL. There are constant complaints that SL does not understand the player base, and that SL makes decisions without understanding the player base or because of issues effecting the UK server. There have been several changes recently that have effected regiments/rules where no one has been consulted and they just happen and we are told to deal with it and can't argue. The US player base is EXTREMELY tired of UK issues effecting the US server. While I understand there needs to be some cohesion between the servers in order for their not to be chaos, SLs first action when noticing an issue shouldn't be removing permissions, it should be a warning to that group to fix the behavior, and then if the behavior isn't fixed doing a corrective action. At the end of the day, a majority of the player base feels like SL are isolating them, and it feels like systems were intentionally implemented to get player base feedback, however those are never used anymore and SL just does what they do without talking to the players it effects.

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

This change came out of no where and is just not justified. SL have stated this was an issue with UK ISD arresting people, however, from what I have heard when I asked, UK ISD has never been told that. SL is saying there is a massive issue with ISD power tripping and arresting people on UK, however instead of UK SL addressing this concern with UK ISD, it now effects the US playerbase.

Removing permissions should be the last resort, not the first one used to address an issue. No one has ever been told this was an issue, yet permissions get removed instead of warning or working with UK ISD to figure out an issue.

Additionally, it is quiet literally the job description of ISD to enforce their branches Code of Conduct/Code of Ethics respectively. You have completely removed this ability.

SL has also stated that this was a CL5 decision, yet Pyro has stated that this issue was NEVER addressed to US.

Lastly, two issues regarding the internal affairs gameplay loop argument.
1: If other people cannot make arrests, your argument is that the IA gameplay loop is sitting in interro, waiting to be told to arrest someone, typing in "Murder 1" 20 mins then waiting for the next arrest. The grand reality is IA have a bunch of tools at their disposal like disguise cards and agreements with departments that allows them to do their own investigations and handle things. IA hate being called to interro because it prevents them from doing what they were doing, and at least on US, they rarely showed up when called.
2: SL has stated that this issue was brought up by IA multiple times and thats why the permission was removed. After speaking with the US IA department director he has said the only time he thinks ISD should NOT be using the arrest npc is when IA is on and actually going to interro. Additionally, he has said he was never consulted, and this change was made without his knowledge or approval. Additionally, both SC and DOIA on US have said they have NO ISSUE with ISD making arrests. This really makes it seem like SL pulled the permissions


It literally seems like SL was just caught in a lie and removed this perm for no reason. The original argument was that CL5 approved it, then CL5 said they didn't, then it moved to this is an issue on US and UK, then US and UK players say its never been an issue addressed with them, lastly it moved to IA complained, yet the US DOIA has literally said he was never consulted on this issue, and that he disagrees with the change and believes both ISD and Assistants SHOULD arrest people

I'm going to get flack for saying this as a staff member probably, but the player base right now at least on US server feels extremely isolated from SL. There are constant complaints that SL does not understand the player base, and that SL makes decisions without understanding the player base or because of issues effecting the UK server. There have been several changes recently that have effected regiments/rules where no one has been consulted and they just happen and we are told to deal with it and can't argue. The US player base is EXTREMELY tired of UK issues effecting the US server. While I understand there needs to be some cohesion between the servers in order for their not to be chaos, SLs first action when noticing an issue shouldn't be removing permissions, it should be a warning to that group to fix the behavior, and then if the behavior isn't fixed doing a corrective action. At the end of the day, a majority of the player base feels like SL are isolating them, and it feels like systems were intentionally implemented to get player base feedback, however those are never used anymore and SL just does what they do without talking to the players it effects.

Absolute W of a response

 

[Bohemia]

Awful changes as usual! It really shows just how out of touch some people are with the server. Not going to say a lot considering Wrath said really all that needs to be, but I will say this. Communication from the higher powers (I WILL NOT NAME ANY NAMES AS I WISH TO CONTINUE PLAYING THE SERVER!) has and always will be awfully lackluster and nearing unreasonably bad. I've expressed my concerns before in my various positions and each and every time I was given the same copy-pasted "Oh we'll work on that" and then the issues continue on and on.

On top of this, this issue only being reported on UK and then US has to pay for it is a laughably common theme throughout every damn change. Even vice versa. While I understand the server aims to be a "network" there are certain areas where simply TALKING (USING WORDS ONLINE VERY HARD!) to the various parties would fix major issues and in turn, not hurt the other party who hasn't even done anything to deserve it.

As much as I know they hate to admit it, UK and US are wildly different servers from the general playerbase, to the way things are managed. While I know you want to maintain a seamless change through the servers, that will always be nearly impossible with the way things are ran. That is NOT a bad thing.

 

[Dennid]

I haven't seen a single person who responded positively to the change and explained how it benefits the server. All I've heard is it takes away from IAs gameplay loop, but the people ISD prosecute are usually above IAs jurisdiction or information level. This means IA are kept out of the process till the very end where all they get to do is press E on the jailer and put in a time/reason. They get to be a middleman and waste both their own, and the ISDs, even though there were no issues with the former system.

exactly for regular arrests ISD already call for IA anyway

 

[Prplex]

Don't understand why the ability to arrest was removed, it was done infrequently and we had to go get handcuffs anyway now if someone is bothering us and theres no IA or they arent responding theres literally nothing we can do

 

[Prplex]

From my point of view UK A1 are not frequent arresters, perhaps if someone is breaking it in front of you and theres no IA nearby but other than that you've still gotta go get cuffs and come back and then drag them to interro for handoff. If im doing A1 duties i would realistically rather let IA do their thing and i can get on with what i was doing. I had almost no knowledge of this change or the reasons behind it until it was implemented. You can say this is a UK issue but id heard nothing about an assistant abusing comms or ISD arresting too much up until this point. I've maybe witnessed like 5 A1 arrests in my entire time in the regiment and this feels like a very heavy handed response considering the ability to arrest was not something overly abused by ISD in the slightest to my knowledge. As many other people have said here we would rather just let IA do it 99% of the time. I've got my stuff to do and they have theirs. If you want to encourage cooperation more sure but that shouldn't remove an occasionally used perk. Additionally afaik SC on UK was not in unanimous agreement on this either, several O5 have voiced against this

 

[Gizzmo]

Man I haven't seen a single positive thing here so far lol

 

[Dr Random K.]

Man I haven't seen a single positive thing here so far lol

Change log feedback is alsk 110 more negative votes than positive ones (34-144)