Content Suggestion Limit PAC3 To Help Stop Lag

[Kevin Ki]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
[This would reenforce the limits initially set for PAC to prevent someone from making a PAC that lags the server to oblivion so they can look pretty, specifically blocking using Imagur and the like to import materials over the 15mb limit, as right now they ARE a large part in the lag.

"Just turn off PAC!"
Doesn't work, you still load it in, also then you run into the invisible men because people replace the Entity not use a Model.

"It doesn't cause that much lag!"
Yes. It does. Go to your console and run FProfiler for 4-5 minutes then look at Total time in ms (inclusive) and Average time in ms (inclusive). PAC3 isn't just the top issue, it's listed MULTIPLE times as the primary issue and what's eating most of your frames, only challenged by Vwar Attachments.

"But my model's materials are only slightly over the limit!"
Compress it. It takes like 5 minutes and saves alot of lag.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
[Probably, but the lag has just gotten worse consistently. It's to the point I can tell the very moment certain people load in.]

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
[Less Lag, people don't need to invest in quantum computing just so people can load in a hyper realistic tank top.]

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
[People will have to compress their giga pacs, some of them may just not buy pac.]

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
[It's already a intended limitation and all people did was find a workaround at the cost of the rest of the playerbase. If by some unholy means this DOESN'T fix a substantial amount of lag it literally just takes a minute to unblacklist imagur.]

 

[Kevin Ki]

it's just gonna be a game of cat and mouse

A very good point.

I don't think anyone has a issue with GMs using a slightly larger PAC for a event as normally there isn't 30-40 of them active at a time.

I think another solution would be a rule to limit such a workaround with people using pac3 able to be asked to stream their screen for a staff member when asked.

Speaking with devs and people who actually understand PAC3, most of the lag comes from:
Animations (they are constantly running if not done right even when not visible)
Large material imports
Materials missing/deleted from the model folders but not wiped (so the console is slinging errors and constantly searching)
Multiple models on 1 PAC (I get the robot arm is cool, but learning blender isn't too hard to do to make it a little smaller.)


The next issues causing lag for the server is Vcomputers and Vwar Attachments. But both of those are much more dev work to fix (maybe just don't have 7 computers in a small area?), I believe it's a memory leak, and I plan on later making a suggestion for a community fund to hire someone or pay a dev to go through and see about fixing the memory leaks.

But before moving into the harder issues, I think it important to first pave over the easy fixes first, and I don't think it inappropriate to ask that people respect that other should not suffer more lag because they want a "High quality" texture that other have no choice in actually turning off (the server still makes you load it, and the invisible men exist)

 

[YandereMuffin]

you run into the invisible men because people replace the Entity not use a Model.

Please note that this is against the rules, call a sit and get the person to fix it - it takes like 15 seconds for the majority of models.

Generally, I disagre - apart from poorly created PACs, the majority don't lag my game at all and the ones that do noticeably come from actually 3 different people (at least on the UK server). If you notice a persons PAC is heavily lagging your game or taking insane time to load please do report it though.

 

[Evil]

+support
Remove pac

 

[Lightsoulist]

+support
anyone saying no to limit pac size is coping imo
(btw if you quote reply and say something about me being stupid and it keeping the server alive youre proving my point)

 

[Kevin Ki]

Please note that this is against the rules, call a sit and get the person to fix it - it takes like 15 seconds for the majority of models.

Yeah, but I would be in so many sits 24/7, also still wouldn't fix the issue by "turning off" pac3 because PAC works like a plugged in TV but worse. You turn off the TV but it's still drawing power just not as much, with pac3 it's still drawing the same amount of power. It's a really poorly thrown together thing, at least the version CN uses.

I will say, having experience with pac I can see why SOME use a entity instead of a model. For example CI. You see, in Gmod model creation alot of models share the same bones, making bone merge viable. But every so often you run into slight diffrent bones making them freak out when merged, the best example being CI and GOC models, for some reason CI often has a broken arms when merged (atleast DELCOM does) and making the model a entity is a easy solution to that issue, but anyone without PAC on won't see you. A true solution to this I've been learning is to just completely replace the model you're merging to's bones with the CI bones via a 3d model editor, but for most people that's not a option as they barely know how to decompile a model let alone replace the bones properly.

 

[Trusty]

+SUPPORT
I love this, it doesn't get rid of PAC but re-enforces the already set rules. They need to be used because there are PACs that deadass reduce your frames by over 30, which shouldn't be allowed and are borderline exploitive

 

[Broda]

Monster Hunter Wilds Beta ran with more frames than the server with pac3 enabled.

 

[Ghost05]

The day Pac3 gets removed is the day GOC goes down to 2 active players

 

[Tryolas_1919]

+support

 

[Tay]

Yo, just change this to "Remove GOC"

Would serve the same purpose.


Also -Support, leave my blue helmets alone

 

[Lightsoulist]

Yo, just change this to "Remove GOC"

Would serve the same purpose.


Also -Support, leave my blue helmets alone

no

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

limit PAC to Sr. CL4 / CL5 / Staff

Nah.

 

[Guts]

Yo, just change this to "Remove GOC"

Would serve the same purpose.

 

[Zack Baker]

+/- Neutral Support
PAC3 can already be limited in the Q Menu while also the file limitations and rules for PAC3 helps for this. But I'm not entirely sure if this is the best fix.

 

[Jeffrey Nut]

PAC3 can already be limited in the Q Menu

Yes, it helps with client side lag but not actully server lag, even if you disable pac3 on the q menu it only helps the client not the server meaning the server still requests the pac3 even with pac disabled, so it still lags the server

 

[Emilia Foddg]

I will say, having experience with pac I can see why SOME use a entity instead of a model. For example CI. You see, in Gmod model creation alot of models share the same bones, making bone merge viable. But every so often you run into slight diffrent bones making them freak out when merged, the best example being CI and GOC models, for some reason CI often has a broken arms when merged (atleast DELCOM does) and making the model a entity is a easy solution to that issue, but anyone without PAC on won't see you. A true solution to this I've been learning is to just completely replace the model you're merging to's bones with the CI bones via a 3d model editor, but for most people that's not a option as they barely know how to decompile a model let alone replace the bones properly.

Additionally, in my experience, if you just do model bone merge, it doesn't do blink animations. Entity override does. ...At least on models where blinking is supported.

 

[Kevin Ki]

Additionally, in my experience, if you just do model bone merge, it doesn't do blink animations. Entity override does. ...At least on models where blinking is supported.

Yeah. I'm still trying to find a solution for it. Again, blender is a start but there is not enough pay in the world for me to do that for EVERY model requested, by CI and GOC. If I could get the greenlight I would absolutely do it for the server as it's not inherently hard, just a repeated action for like, 10 jobs each reg?

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

Yeah, but I would be in so many sits 24/7, also still wouldn't fix the issue by "turning off" pac3 because PAC works like a plugged in TV but worse. You turn off the TV but it's still drawing power just not as much, with pac3 it's still drawing the same amount of power. It's a really poorly thrown together thing, at least the version CN uses.

I will say, having experience with pac I can see why SOME use a entity instead of a model. For example CI. You see, in Gmod model creation alot of models share the same bones, making bone merge viable. But every so often you run into slight diffrent bones making them freak out when merged, the best example being CI and GOC models, for some reason CI often has a broken arms when merged (atleast DELCOM does) and making the model a entity is a easy solution to that issue, but anyone without PAC on won't see you. A true solution to this I've been learning is to just completely replace the model you're merging to's bones with the CI bones via a 3d model editor, but for most people that's not a option as they barely know how to decompile a model let alone replace the bones properly.

There is a workaround to this which does not require you to do anything outside of pac3 (FOR WHICH I MADE AN EPIC TUTORIAL FOR ! ! ! ! !) but it does result in the bones which you've shoddily bonemerged to rubber band behind your player a little bit; you end up having a cartoony ass tracer of your own shoulders behind you if you noclip fast or something.

In short, you select the fucked up bones and use the 'follow part' function of pac3 to make them follow a bone which is right next to them, e.g. if your model has a 'left trapezius' bone you can use 'follow part' to basically glue it to the 'left upperarm' solving this issue entirely

 

[Holland]

i said it once and ill say it again

limit PAC to Sr. CL4 / CL5 / Staff

normal people do not need to have fancy suits that dont look fitting to the athmosphere most of the time

It doesn't make sense to remove a paid feature for new players or players who don't want SR cl4+ positions. The ability for players to create models without needing to beg for x add-on to be added, etc., is essential for the growth and accessibility of the server. Another point is the female models that aren't available for certain jobs because of the load and the Lack of female models for those jobs. Giving players the ability to change and customize their models is essential for events, Fun, immersion, and High Roleplay potential.

There is an open ticket to optimize pac3 code overall, but it is a complex system and takes time, testing, etc.

 

[Terry_A]

+ Support

I agree PAC needs to be redefined. Either it needs to be more restrictive on file size / approval, or maybe the price can be increased, or perhaps a limited number of PAC slots can be auctioned / raffled off.

Somehow, someway, the performance burden on the server absolutely needs to be reduced without completely removing a feature many people love that also nets the server a valuable stream of revenue; a middle ground needs to be found to prevent the insane lag caused by loading PACs, being in their proximity, etc..