Rule Suggestion Allow Class-D to breach 008

["Businessman"]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Removes the rule:


Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I don't believe so

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
+More RP Possibilities for Class-D
+No more RP dictating rule
+Encourages people to play Class-D

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- 4% increase in 008 breaches.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Using rules to protect something from being breached is just a lame way.

 

[Average member podidski]

also this is just "Remove Site Command and ISD" all over again. (ISD was Alpha-1 and Omega-1 before the IA rework)

 

[Fexxyzin]

Your math isn't correct to begin with.

currently (Atleast for UK) we typically have 1 008 breach a week. that's 52 breaches a year, that's a self limitation so just to be kind to d-class, I'm gonna assume they do 2 a week. that's 102. That's 27% chance. if I add in CI's breach as well that's a 42% chance on that day there's a 008 breach.

Now say this is USA, where I hear CI are not self limiting themselves. let's be bold and say they do 2 008 breaches a week. That knocks it up to a 56% chance.

I'd spend longer to work out through the actual raid logs what kind of numbers we'd get but it's like 1:30 and I just woke up.

I'd rather not log into a server where it's a50/50 if there's a 008 breach ongoing.

The math is correct, what you assuming is wrong is my guess.
In the UK server we do NOT have 1 SCP-008 breach per week, it's more like 1 breach per 2-3, sometimes 4 weeks (In the last mouth there were 2 008 breaches cause by CI).
In what world do you think that D-Class will breach it twice a week.

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The dev time required to create a system that detects not only for 12 players specifically, but 12 within a vwar regiment and *On* those regimental jobs is insane for that. If you're suggesting it be a rule then you're clearly unaware of how little some players care when in regards to making issues in early morning/Low population when nearly no staff are on or avalible.

I have few knowlagde about coding especially in LUA, but they could create a personalised fuction with all the MTF jobs and check if they'r 12 member. If you want to make it simpler, you can create a system that prevents D-Class from breaching/hacking 008 at certain hours of the day it would be usefull on those mornings wheres there is low population or no staff are available .

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D-class obtaining TE-5's and a single weapon is not difficult, Especially since most d-class will inherantly head straigh to 914 that can facilitate them stronger weapons like PKM's and disguises. You're vastly underestimating a competent D-Class.

Yes, but they still need to go to LHCZ hack they’re way in to the syringes (4 doors, 1 CL.4 Biometric, 2 CL.4 and another one that I’m not sure, and the lift (where the syringes are) CL.5 Biometric) and then hack they’re way out, infect someone and hop they don’t notice or break it in a good place where it can spread. I don’t think that he’s underestimating D-Class, I’m think that you’re overestimating them.

 

[Merrick Travolta]

In what world do you think that D-Class will breach it twice a week.

In a world where people "crashout", Flag onto D-class, Then immediately beeline and hack out two SCP's because they got minorly inconvinced in a video game.

In the UK server we do NOT have 1 SCP-008 breach per week, it's more like 1 breach per 2-3, sometimes 4 weeks (In the last mouth there were 2 008 breaches cause by CI).

I said Typically, Sometimes you don't have 1 for 2 or so weeks. Sometimes you do. But my point is that it's a self imposed limitation. Theoretically (before SL decide to explode you) you could do a 008 breach every day.

I have few knowlagde about coding especially in LUA, but they could create a personalised fuction with all the MTF jobs and check if they'r 12 member. If you want to make it simpler, you can create a system that prevents D-Class from breaching/hacking 008 at certain hours of the day it would be usefull on those mornings wheres there is low population or no staff are available .

Right but dev's need to want to do it. There's likely a reason this isn't hard coded.

Yes, but they still need to go to LHCZ hack they’re way in to the syringes (4 doors, 1 CL.4 Biometric, 2 CL.4 and another one that I’m not sure, and the lift (where the syringes are) CL.5 Biometric) and then hack they’re way out, infect someone and hop they don’t notice or break it in a good place where it can spread. I don’t think that he’s underestimating D-Class, I’m think that you’re overestimating them.

I'm not, I've watched two DC's do this exact hack and not been caught with 10 E-11 on. It's more than possible and Unfortunately a lot of D-class are usually combative junkies who like the "I can kill everyone" pass.

 

[Fexxyzin]

In a world where people "crashout", Flag onto D-class, Then immediately beeline and hack out two SCP's because they got minorly inconvinced in a video game.

That already happens with CI. The solution wasn’t banning them from breaching 008, it was adding rules, cooldowns, and staff oversight. If players crashout to breach it as D-Class, then be it, if they follow all the rules theres no problem

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I said Typically, Sometimes you don't have 1 for 2 or so weeks. Sometimes you do. But my point is that it's a self imposed limitation. Theoretically (before SL decide to explode you) you could do a 008 breach every day.

Theoretically, yes, just like CI could do that. But they don’t, because they respect cooldowns and roleplay integrity. The same standards can apply to Class-D breaches, especially since they’re harder, require more effort, and are riskier. Most players won’t go through a long breach route for a 30-second power trip. And if they do gain that’s a behavior issue, not a rule design problem.

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Right but dev's need to want to do it. There's likely a reason this isn't hard coded.

Sure, but again, this doesn’t require a hardcoded solution is one of them. The 12-MTF rule works fine as a rule. Most players follow it. And for extra safety, there could be a simple system that disables hacking during specific hours (Like I mensioned previuoly), which doesn’t need player count detection, just time based locks.

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I'm not, I've watched two DC's do this exact hack and not been caught with 10 E-11 on. It's more than possible and Unfortunately a lot of D-class are usually combative junkies who like the "I can kill everyone" pass.

CI are coordinated, experienced players with access to tools. Comparing them to D-Class, who have no loadouts, comms, or structured plans, isn’t a fair equivalence. The average D-Class doesn’t pull this off, especially with the MTF rule in place, and if two DC's maneged that E-11 needs to improve, see where they failed and fix it.
If they go killing everyone they might be easir to catch, somoene else might ear gunshots and check it out, report causing the foudation to increase security.

 

[Average member podidski]

funny how all those "extremist" suggetions came after MRP fully died, does anyone notice the thing here?

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

In what world do you think that D-Class will breach it twice a week.

NL just banned the use of reshade because people were using it to highlight enemies. People are really fucking petty and WILL jump at the chance to breach 008 just to piss people off. They dont care about being warned or banned for a day or two, or even a couple weeks.

 

[Fexxyzin]

NL just banned the use of reshade because people were using it to highlight enemies. People are really fucking petty and WILL jump at the chance to breach 008 just to piss people off. They dont care about being warned or banned for a day or two, or even a couple weeks.

You're not wrong that some players will always look for ways to troll or ruin others' experiences, that happens in every online game and community. But the solution to that is better enforcement, not removing gameplay mechanics entirely.
By that logic, we’d have to ban disguises, deep cover or CI raids, literally anything that can be abused. Yet we don't because they create RP and entretainement when used properly.
And let’s be real, if someone breaches 008 just to piss people off, doesn't care about the rules and doesn’t care about being banned, that’s not a reason to remove the mechanic. That’s a reason to hand out longer bans, make sure repeat offenders don’t come back and make an exemple out of them!

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

You're not wrong that some players will always look for ways to troll or ruin others' experiences, that happens in every online game and community. But the solution to that is better enforcement, not removing gameplay mechanics entirely.
By that logic, we’d have to ban disguises, deep cover or CI raids, literally anything that can be abused. Yet we don't because they create RP and entretainement when used properly.
And let’s be real, if someone breaches 008 just to piss people off, doesn't care about the rules and doesn’t care about being banned, that’s not a reason to remove the mechanic. That’s a reason to hand out longer bans, make sure repeat offenders don’t come back and make an exemple out of them!

Staff aren't on 24/7. You cannot force staff members who work as volunteers to wake up early in the morning and load into gmod for hours just to make sure people dont breach 008 below the 12 MTF requirement.

Disguise sniping already happens loads. Deep cover raids rarely produce anything more that adequate roleplay and to be honest, a lot of dc's dont give a shit about interrogations and will just lie in them or roleplay really poorly so the other person gets bored.

Yet again, staff have no clear way to know if people are breaching 008 to piss someone off or if they are doing it to supposedly "create roleplay", even though there is no roleplay created from it and handing out longer and longer bans doesnt really end up meaning anything if they are just going to create a new account or another person will do it. Staff are not going to publicly shame people for breaching 008.

 

[Fexxyzin]

Staff aren't on 24/7. You cannot force staff members who work as volunteers to wake up early in the morning and load into gmod for hours just to make sure people dont breach 008 below the 12 MTF requirement.

In no where I suggested that.

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Disguise sniping already happens loads. Deep cover raids rarely produce anything more that adequate roleplay and to be honest, a lot of dc's dont give a shit about interrogations and will just lie in them or roleplay really poorly so the other person gets bored.

We are talking about allow D-Class to breach 008, I don’t see how this so specific topic is relevant to the discussion.

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Yet again, staff have no clear way to know if people are breaching 008 to piss someone off or if they are doing it to supposedly "create roleplay", even though there is no roleplay created from it and handing out longer and longer bans doesnt really end up meaning anything if they are just going to create a new account or another person will do it. Staff are not going to publicly shame people for breaching 008.

Also, this idea that staff can't “tell the difference” between trolling and RP is weak. Staff make judgment calls all the time . And yes, maybe someone will alt or another idiot will try again, but that’s not a reason to cave in and let the minority (trolls) win. Every game with moderation deals with this. What you’re saying is: “we can’t stop every rulebreaker, so let’s punish the legit players instead.” That logic is backwards to say the least.

Finally, the idea that staff can’t “make an example” out of someone? They do it already. Bans, blacklists, warnings, that is making an example. It sends a message. If you don’t enforce the rules someone might dodge them, and from then on you’re basically giving them permission to keep pushing limits.

And please stop using the worst players as the standard for your decisions.

 

[Aphex]

In the UK server we do NOT have 1 SCP-008 breach per week, it's more like 1 breach per 2-3, sometimes 4 weeks (In the last mouth there were 2 008 breaches cause by CI).

Read the rule definition for what counts as breaching 008, then redo the math.

 

[Fexxyzin]

Read the rule definition for what counts as breaching 008, then redo the math.

What I meant by breaching it was successively injecting someone with a syringe. But if you wanna count the other times where CI grab it, the number increases to 3 breaches the last month.

 

['Detainee']

all of you should get jobs +support

 

[Average member podidski]

all of you should get jobs +support