Denied Change the AI Art in the new Lobby with ACTUAL art.

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Shaunpai

Shaunpai

Trial Game Master
Trial Game Master
One Year Club Advent 2024 Conversation Starter Advent 2025
Mar 5, 2024
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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
The portraits in the lobby above the reception are made with AI and generally look terrible. Please replace them with art by real artists.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?
no.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Removes the use of AI Slop in an otherwise fantastic update.
- Gives members of the community a way to contribute to the legacy of CN.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- None.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

Why in the love of God did we decide to go for AI art instead of asking one of the several talented artists in this community to contribute art for this section of the map?

I believe that this should be done and that the AI art should be completely removed and replaced with ACTUAL paintings made by ACTUAL artists. The fact this even got past testing is a bit of a farce.
 
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Would I have made this suggestion myself? No. I realistically do not see it as that big of a deal in this otherwise amazing update.

Do I support this suggestion? Yes. Just because I do not see it as a HUGE deal, does not mean I would not appreciate it being a real person's work instead.

+support, though if denied it is what it is. Would be a nice opportunity to have a community art contest though! Could be a cool way to start the new year.
 
James Dingle said:
Have you contacted any of the talented artists to see if they have the time or the desire to want to commission art for this new map update before coming to the forums and asking for content to do it?

Knitpicking this out of one of the larger map updates that we've had in a while looks kinda childish to be honest and shows a lack of appreciation for what has actually been provided to you.
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I don't particularly give a shit about the content of the suggestion aside from the fact that AI slop is in fact AI slop but why is it that every time someone in the community points out a slightly controversial negative thing the dev team does the "you're being ungrateful" card gets played like it's being used to pacify a stropping child

Half the time the staff team will dismiss doing things due to the effort required because it's a voluntary project that they don't earn cash for (so I don't blame them, time-to-value ratio is a very important thing) but then when actual slop gets through and it's critiqued, suddenly we remember to have backbones and tell the community they're being ungrateful.

Can we not? One of the most irritating things I will ever see pop up in discussion about things on this platform
 
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Gonna properly chime in now

People getting upset over AI usage need to get a reality check and understand the mappers in the team put an IMMENSE amount of work in to create these brilliant RP environments. Not everyone is artistically talented nor wants to dish out money to people in the community clearly trying to farm IRL Currency by demonizing the usage of AI images. Stop gatekeeping accessibility for people and let them use what they need to in order to get something they want.

If you want your own art put into the map then by all means please apply for Art Developer: https://civilnetworks.net/community/threads/developer-artist-application-format.19551/

Otherwise, get on with your day or offer something at the very least off your own back to resolve this "Issue".
 
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Broda said:
Gonna properly chime in now

People getting upset over AI usage need to get a reality check and understand the mappers in the team put an IMMENSE amount of work in to create these brilliant RP environments. Not everyone is artistically talented nor wants to dish out money to people in the community clearly trying to farm IRL Currency by demonizing the usage of AI images. Stop gatekeeping accessibility for people and let them use what they need to in order to get something they want.

If you want your own art put into the map then by all means please apply for Art Developer: https://civilnetworks.net/community/threads/developer-artist-application-format.19551/

Otherwise, get on with your day or offer something at the very least off your own back to resolve this "Issue".
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“get a load of this guy” 🫤.jpg
 
Broda said:
Gonna properly chime in now

People getting upset over AI usage need to get a reality check and understand the mappers in the team put an IMMENSE amount of work in to create these brilliant RP environments. Not everyone is artistically talented nor wants to dish out money to people in the community clearly trying to farm IRL Currency by demonizing the usage of AI images. Stop gatekeeping accessibility for people and let them use what they need to in order to get something they want.

If you want your own art put into the map then by all means please apply for Art Developer: https://civilnetworks.net/community/threads/developer-artist-application-format.19551/

Otherwise, get on with your day or offer something at the very least off your own back to resolve this "Issue".
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Broda, with all due respect, this is the most mind numbing answer I have seen.

Artist are not "money farms", they do art, and try to get paid for the amount of time they invest in their work, that's the entire point, mappers also charge people for their map works most of the time, is that currency farming too?
Devs and mappers do not make art sure, but that is why we have Art developer on the server to make art for the mappers?
Your answer in a way is basically insulting artist, and just to chime in with my own experience, I went to art school.

The amount of irl money and time you have to spent to get a good degree and then try to get a job in the art industry is hard,
I have friends who literally spent sleepless nights just to get better and better in the hope of perfecting their craft only to get denied because they where not good enough.
So it's only fair for artist that do work online to want to be paid for the effort and creativity they have to do,
but I guess that is too much for you and we should let the devs not have to spend money when the people owning this server are capable of buying an IDRIS P on star citizen which cost 1.7k or more depending on the bundle.

Most commission prices these days are not even that bad, averaging 50 pounds, that is legit the equivalent of 7 people buying pac3 (with cash to spare) and we know how many are paying it per month and you dare say people are ungrateful?
Mappers can't do art sure, but the other devs can buy stock images online at best or just fucking pay an artist 1 time for a commission and get art without creating needless controversy.

You really need a reality check if the person you think is in the wrong are the artist for wanting to make "irl cash". Get a grip, art is a profession, not some con artist bs or some elaborate crypto scheme.
 
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I honestly don’t see an issue with the art itself. The way it was being described made it sound like it had four extra hands and completely jumbled text. In reality, the art looks thematically appropriate and fits where it’s being used. I’ve seen plenty of commissioned pieces that people swore were AI generated but weren’t, and I’ve also seen AI generated work on both the UK and USA sides pass as hand drawn without question. Because of that, I don’t really see a genuine community breaking issue here.
 
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François Napoléon said:
Broda, with all due respect, this is the most mind numbing answer I have seen.

Artist are not "money farms", they do art, and try to get paid for the amount of time they invest in their work, that's the entire point, people making maps also charge people for their map works most of the time, is that currency farm for irl currency?
Devs and mappers do not make art sure, but thats why we have Art developper on the server to make art for the mappers?
Your answer in a way is bassicaly insulting artist and just to chime in my own experience, I went to art school.

The amount of irl money and time you have to spent to get a good degree and then try to get a job in the art industry is hard,
I have friends who litteraly spent spleepless nights just to get better and better in the hope of perfecting their craft only to get denied because they where not good enought.
So it's only fair for artist that do work online to want to be paid for the effort and creativity they have to do,
but I guess thats is too much for you and we should let the devs not have to spend money when the people owning this server are capable of buying an IDRIS P on star citizen which cost 1.7k or more depending on the bundle.

Most commision prices these days are not even that bad, averaging 50 pounds, that is legit the equivalent of 7 people buying pac3 (with cash to spare) and we know how many are paying it per month and you dare say people are ungratefull?
Mappers can't do art sure, but the other devs can buy stock images online at best or just fucking pay an artist 1 time for a commission and get art without creating needless controversy.

You really need a reality check if the person you think is in the wrong are the artist for wanting to make "irl cash". Get a grip, art is a profession, not some con artist bs or some elaborate crypto scheme.
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Frenchy, with all due respect the "averaging 50 pounds" being "not even that bad" is the biggest reality detachment I've seen this year. Very few people do not have access to that kind of money due to the rising cost of living and if people want to use AI as an alternative, all the more power to them.

There are, in this very Community, people using the platform to sell their commissions to others. I am not going to name anyone to avoid a witch hunt. With the dev team, I do not believe there is anyone actively creating art for the community at this moment (Please correct me if I am wrong) so who is Judge going to rely on within the CN Dev team? So if anyone is artistically talented and wants to contribute or even earn some money through CN properly, please do apply to the Dev team, CN needs more Devs!

I've got no issue with people selling art nor buying it but there is a clear usage of the CN platform to sell their services. I'll leave that bit at that.

What Ventz decides to spend his own money is not up for debate. He has worked tremendously hard to create a service for thousands of players over the years to enjoy and play on. He sets bounties sometimes and they get fulfilled at his own personal preference as the business owner.

"Mappers can't do art sure, but the other devs can buy stock images online at best or just fucking pay an artist 1 time for a commission and get art without creating needless controversy."

So you want Devs to fork over money to avoid controversy....? You are far more intelligent than this Frenchy, come on.
 
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Broda said:
Frenchy, with all due respect the "averaging 50 pounds" being "not even that bad" is the biggest reality detachment I've seen this year. Very few people do not have access to that kind of money due to the rising cost of living and if people want to use AI as an alternative, all the more power to them.

There are, in this very Community, people using the platform to sell their commissions to others. I am not going to name anyone to avoid a witch hunt. With the dev team, I do not believe there is anyone actively creating art for the community at this moment (Please correct me if I am wrong) so who is Judge going to rely on within the CN Dev team? So if anyone is artistically talented and wants to contribute or even earn some money through CN properly, please do apply to the Dev team, CN needs more Devs!

I've got no issue with people selling art nor buying it but there is a clear usage of the CN platform to sell their services. I'll leave that bit at that.

What Ventz decides to spend his own money is not up for debate. He has worked tremendously hard to create a service for thousands of players over the years to enjoy and play on. He sets bounties sometimes and they get fulfilled at his own personal preference as the business owner.

"Mappers can't do art sure, but the other devs can buy stock images online at best or just fucking pay an artist 1 time for a commission and get art without creating needless controversy."

So you want Devs to fork over money to avoid controversy....? You are far more intelligent than this Frenchy, come on.
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What devs do with their own money is fine but when you plan a big update you spend so much effort to get the map right but cheap on AI art because you can't afford 50 pounds when we both KNOW this server makes a lot of money is unrealistic.

50 pound is expensive for the average person yes, but this is server money we are talking about.
You are willing to tell me the devs and owner are unable to spend money to buy ART on a map change they worked on form months? Are we really going to go with the "they can't afford it excuse" when they sell perma weapon, skins cases, subscirption for logging on, pac3, vip and so on.

Are we really gona use the "it's too expensive" escuse when we hired a dev full time to help with developement? When we afford servers with high end hardware to try to compensate for GMOD being absolute jank?
Is this really the argument you wana use Broda?

Sure I can be far more intelligent, but last I checked CN makes a profit, spending an extra amount of money just to make sure the update hits and dosnt feel cheap makes sense, and they easely could have comissioned outside artist. But can we not afford 3 artist rendition?
DID YOU KNOW: the announcement voice is from Hoot a youtuber who does comissions? I guess art commisions don't exist tho so we can only get VAs?

You don't need to hire an artist full time, you set a art goal "need painting of person done for this part of the map rework" let them work, pay when done.

And lastly, a large amount of assets are stolen or taken from other maps model pacs etc, was it too hard to just take a painting asset from another addon at this point? The map already recylcles models from the workshop every chance it gets (vguns is litteraly an asset mashup of gun addons).

It's not hard, and these are not "common people", it's a server who makes a profit. I think it makes sense to expect at least some effort on every part of the map change.
 
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François Napoléon said:
What devs do with their own money is fine but when you plan a big update you spend so much effort to get the map right but cheap on AI art because you can't afford 50 pounds when we both KNOW this server makes a lot of money is unrealistic.

50 pound is expensive for the average person yes, but this is server money we are talking about.
You are willing to tell me the devs and owner are unable to spend money to buy ART on a map change they worked on form months? Are we really going to go with the "they can't afford it excuse" when they sell perma weapon, skins cases, subscirption for logging on, pac3, vip and so on.

Are we really gona use the "it's too expensive" escuse when we hired a dev full time to help with developement? When we afford servers with high end hardware to try to compensate for GMOD being absolute jank?
Is this really the argument you wana use Broda?

Sure I can be far more intelligent, but last I checked CN makes a profit, spending an extra amount of money just to make sure the update hits and dosnt feel cheap makes sense, and they easely could have comissioned outside artist. But can we not afford 3 artist rendition?
DID YOU KNOW: the announcement voice is from Hoot a youtuber who does comissions? I guess art commisions don't exist tho so we can only get VAs?

You don't need to hire an artist full time, you set a art goal "need painting of person done for this part of the map rework" let them work, pay when done.

And lastly, a large amount of assets are stolen or taken from other maps model pacs etc, was it too hard to just take a painting asset from another addon at this point? The map already recylcles models from the workshop every chance it gets (vguns is litteraly an asset mashup of gun addons).

It's not hard, and these are not "common people", it's a server who makes a profit. I think it makes sense to expect at least some effort on every part of the map change.
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Ah, you meant server money so I'll adjust my point then. It is entirely up to Ventz on what he wants to spend his earnings on and many companies are using AI to cost cut and be more efficient these days. You don't have to like that fact but this is the future and progressive technology.

"Are we really gona use the "it's too expensive" escuse when we hired a dev full time to help with developement? When we afford servers with high end hardware to try to compensate for GMOD being absolute jank?"

Can't recall where I mentioned anything about gmod being jank or server hosting.

Assets being taken from other maps is hardly relevant, if Judge wants to use three simple AI images to go with his map update then that is up to him as the mapper.

I'll keep repeating myself: If you are an Artist and want to contribute to the community properly, become an Art developer. To my knowledge they issue bounties for things they need done. It isn't a full time position but I'll drag you back to your "artists finding work is hard" point Frenchy, the opportunity is literally available for them to apply here.

And to top it off, Mheeb doesn't know how taxes work or how many years its taken to accumulate these funds in that image. Not sure what you tried to achieve there
 
Suggestion denied.

I appreciate your views on generative AI, but with respect we are not going to do a whole recompile to change a few images, maybe in the future these can be changed if people want to make us some other portraits but with respect we are not going to go out of our way to change these.

The sheer audacity in some comments is deafening, especially considering many other artistic endeavours and competitions we have attempted to do that end up with 0 involvement from artists which result in us no longer doing said competitions.

This type of rhetoric that is being espoused is how you end up losing support from devs where they put all their effort into a update but no one cares because 3 images were generated via AI, I have just come out of hospital so I do not have the energy to give credence to this, if you want to help out in the future then I implore you to join our dev team as an artist, rather than insulting my developers because some AI images "got past testing", but until then we can and will use all available resources to us at the time per required timeframe.

Edit: Going on about what ventz spends his personal money on for running the business and taking screenshots of donation leaderboards that go over the lifespan of the community is idiotic and I will see none of it, also yes artists deserve pay but per the above timeframe and resources, but if you want to be there to get paid, join the art team... rather than just having colossal moaning arguments over the morals and ethics of AI, i am tired of seeing this,
 
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