Denied Change IA Loadout

[Recker]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Replaces the P90 with the Kriss Vector for all Internal Affairs jobs.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
I'd imagine lots of suggestions have been made for IA loadouts. This one is probably the most plausible, though.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Upgrades IA from an absolutely terrible gun that requires headshots to a gun that has a decent chance against someone with armor (which happens to be most people in the facility).
- The Kriss Vector is only used by ONE other job atm. Would be unique and may give some slightly more incentive to play IA.
- The UK IA Directors are in agreement with this change.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- None!

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Currently the IA loadout is the worst combative (Yes, IA is combative) loadout in the server. Both guns that IA has require you to hit constant headshots (and hit 99% of your shots) to make a kill. So, if someone is shooting at you and you don't have a perma, you're kind of screwed either way. This gives IA a slightly better chance at defending themselves or shooting malicious D-Class/treasonous Foundation personnel.

Edit: I'd be okay with a different gun other than the Vector but the P90 is horrible.

 

[Ethos]

id understand this if IA were combatives

4.3 Combative Personnel - The day-to-day duties of the person's job require them to involve themselves in combat, the following jobs and departments are considered combative;

Spoiler: Combative Personnel

MTF Alpha-1 Red Right Hand
MTF Omega-1 Law’s Left Hand
MTF Epsilon-11 Nine-Tailed Fox
MTF Nu-7 Hammer Down
Department of External Affairs
Internal Affairs Department (May not actively seek out combat in relation to raids and breaches)
Security Staff
Combat Medic
Chaos Insurgency (Exceptions; Chemist, and Technical Expert)
UNGOC (Exceptions; Chemist, Engineer, and Ambassador/Attache)

+Support
While I understand IA does not fight SCPs or CI raids they are involved in other combative tasks around site 65.

 

[Recker]

id understand this if IA were combatives

I don't mean to be rude but anytime any suggestion is made to change Internal Affairs this is the argument that's used. Play Internal Affairs for a little while then I doubt you'll make that argument as conveniently most of the people who make that argument either play IA for less than a week or don't play it at all.

Regardless, Internal Affairs is combative as @SkullOG said against a variety of people including but not limited to:

• Hostile Foundation Personnel
• 914 Users
• D-Class
• GOIs (In Self Defense Only)
• SCPs (In Self Defense Only)

Stating that Internal Affairs is not a combative department is simply not true. Combat is seen daily by IA.

 

[Archangel]

I used it once after I got it from observing from a hole in the wall test and it performed better imo, why what would you suggest that's not overbearing?

The GenSec’s Aug/bull pup rifle, the F90 I think is its name?

 

[Auburn]

Loadout Suggestions and Balancing

---

Hello, This post is to serve as a guide for when requesting loadout changes, due to the fact many suggestions are not fully thought through when it comes to these, which results in "Please give us X gun because someone else has it" or "Give the commander the same weapon as X class because commander". The Content Team will no longer be accepting suggestions in relation to loadouts that are not thought through with adequate reasoning. Reasons that will not be accepted;

• <X> Class / Faction has this, we should have <X>
• In lore, we are supposed to be OP
• In lore, we are supposed to have XYZ
• I don't like the gunplay

Reasons that hold merit in consideration for changes;

• <X> Gun is broken and does not work as intended
• <X> item would make sense for our class to have for <thought out reasons>

Hi @"Recker"

I just have a few questions to ask regarding this suggestion, as many of the reasons in this just seem to be the "I don't like the gunplay" argument.

1. In what way is IA not able to fulfil its current role in the server with the guns they have now?
2. IA is the only group on the server to use the P90. Why insist on changing the gun when you can edit its stats instead?
3. Are there any issues with the functionality of the P90? These are not stat issues, but bugs like firing noise, animations, etc.

Personally, I am against this as IA is not meant to be front-line combatants. Killing for IA should always be the last resort, as you should be attempting to detain people for arrest instead. Wouldn't giving them a strong gun just enable players to use the job more combatively, thus overreaching into other departmental duties like GENSEC?
One of your arguments for having better guns is to kill escaped DClass and 914 intruders, but that's historically been the job of Gensec and E-11 respectively. Further, it doesn't make sense to make it easier for you to combat SCPs and GOIs because that's completely counter to your role as IA.

I agree with your point that IA is involved in combat in their day-to-day duties, hell I was an ambassador in the past, but IA should never be a department with the mindset of 'guns first'. Giving strong guns would just encourage that behaviour.

 

[Dinklesprinkle]

i think trying to get a new gun for the department is not going to be the move for IA especially as the gun you are requested is also hated. i think the smortest move would be trying to change the stats of your current weapon as far as I'm aware you are the only group with the gun so changing its usability is alot more feasible

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

Id say that IA does Need a new/better gun
Wether it's a stat update for the P90 or a change in the gun itself

For one, you cannot deny that IA needs to go Combative from time to time, and having a gun as inconsistent as the P90 straight up is ass to deal with

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

id understand this if IA were combatives

Well hey. They Are.

 

[Kito]

Dog. You don't want the Kriss. It physically cannot kill someone in one mag, even if you land all your shots, it only downs them.

 

[Painter]

-support IA like semi-combative. Why you need bigger gun?

 

[Niox]

-support IA like semi-combative. Why you need bigger gun?

this fr
+Support

 

[Ethos]

Painter asked: "-support IA like semi-combative. Why you need bigger gun?"

Hello "Painter," your inquiry about the combative status of IA is noted. Below is a clarification that underscores the inherently combative role of Internal Affairs.

Regardless, Internal Affairs is combative as @SkullOG said against a variety of people including but not limited to:

• Hostile Foundation Personnel
• 914 Users
• D-Class
• GOIs (In Self Defense Only)
• SCPs (In Self Defense Only)

Stating that Internal Affairs is not a combative department is simply not true. Combat is seen daily by IA.

Further corroborating this standpoint, I referenced the server rules within section 4.3 Combative Personnel, which conspicuously omits any mention of "semi-combative" classifications, affirming IA's comprehensive combative role.

 

[Snake]

Hello "Painter," your inquiry about the combative status of IA is noted. Below is a clarification that underscores the inherently combative role of Internal Affairs.



Further corroborating this standpoint, I referenced the server rules within section 4.3 Combative Personnel, which conspicuously omits any mention of "semi-combative" classifications, affirming IA's comprehensive combative role.

My understanding is they are combative when it comes to self defence or arrests but outside of that they shouldn't seek combat.

 

[Archangel]

Dog. You don't want the Kriss. It physically cannot kill someone in one mag, even if you land all your shots, it only downs them.

 

[Recker]

Hi @"Recker"

I just have a few questions to ask regarding this suggestion, as many of the reasons in this just seem to be the "I don't like the gunplay" argument.

1. In what way is IA not able to fulfil its current role in the server with the guns they have now?
2. IA is the only group on the server to use the P90. Why insist on changing the gun when you can edit its stats instead?
3. Are there any issues with the functionality of the P90? These are not stat issues, but bugs like firing noise, animations, etc.

Personally, I am against this as IA is not meant to be front-line combatants. Killing for IA should always be the last resort, as you should be attempting to detain people for arrest instead. Wouldn't giving them a strong gun just enable players to use the job more combatively, thus overreaching into other departmental duties like GENSEC?
One of your arguments for having better guns is to kill escaped DClass and 914 intruders, but that's historically been the job of Gensec and E-11 respectively. Further, it doesn't make sense to make it easier for you to combat SCPs and GOIs because that's completely counter to your role as IA.

I agree with your point that IA is involved in combat in their day-to-day duties, hell I was an ambassador in the past, but IA should never be a department with the mindset of 'guns first'. Giving strong guns would just encourage that behaviour.

1. Considering a decent majority of the people we arrest either end up shanking us or stabbing us and the P90 might as well be an airsoft gun, just that. You have to hit headshots to do anything and when someone's running at you with a knife or gun and you have to whip out a gun, the P90 is just not it.
2. I suppose that's true. I love the P90 in other games and it's a beautiful gun IRL, but it's just dog water in CN.
3. I don't believe so, no.

As for the rest of your reply, IA kill D-Class who break try and escape during tests, D-Class who might be running away from them when they're patrolling HCZ, D-Class who might be in delta wing armed when IA are patrolling, etc. and as for 914 users, that was a blanket statement referring to tech experts, cadets, etc. who may use 914 but also the occasional CI that might try and kill us if we arrest them thinking they're Foundation for using 914.

I don't think we're going into this suggestion with the mindset of "guns first". If that were true, I'd be requesting a KBAR!


As for everyone who is saying the Kriss Vector is trash, got anything else in mind? I used the Kriss Vector a while ago and preferred it over the P90 but it's also not a "great" gun like the ARX hence the suggestion. It's just more plausible.

 

[KalebStar]

As a former GOC Major I can confirm that the vector is poo poo

 

[Archangel]

As a former GOC Major I can confirm that the vector is poo poo

The gun more than sucks, its only 25 rounds, extremely high recoil, too little damage you cant even kill someone with it one clip point blank range in a singular magdump.

 

[Merrick Travolta]

I was approached prior to this post. Personally i use a perma arx. Asval or vhs. But if the p90 from what i hear is rather bad. To all the comments posting
"Ia non conbative". Cope. We're semi combative. Let me list just a few instances where ia can be combative to make a point of why we need our weapon.

1. Dclass escape dblock and begin heading to 914 (while not our duty. Is most certainly something we can assist in.)
2. Dclass attempt to murder someone in dblock
3. Hostile standoffs when arresting a group of combatives. (FearRP is hard to initialise when its larger groups)
4. Last stands against scps. When you have no escape nor ability to hide.
5. Last stands against ci. Same rules
6. Self defense against minges (call a dit isn't valid if you die and lose something important. Or just have your rp interrupted)
7. 914ed dclass called out

Personally. This change will not affect me. But. If its a better gun than our standard p90 is. I'll take the W

 

[grunger]

The GenSec’s Aug/bull pup rifle, the F90 I think is its name?

F90 is lethal, IA do not need to spawn with it.

 

[Archangel]

F90 is lethal, IA do not need to spawn with it.

Aint that the whole point of guns? you know.. lethality, pew pew, someone dies? This suggestion turns IA From Police-armed level to Airsofter-armed level.

 

[Recker]

Aint that the whole point of guns? you know.. lethality, pew pew, someone dies? This suggestion turns IA From Police-armed level to Airsofter-armed level.

I edited the suggestion to just be a general improvement over the P90. Whatever works.