Denied CI Being allowed to Nuke

[Dinklesprinkle]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This rule would make it so during an authorised nuke room raid CI should be permitted to activate the nuke as currently every attempted nuke room raid where ci have captured the room always gets foiled by MTF not caring about the sites security and storming in regardless of the threat that ci holding a nuke room should hold. I also feel this is the case because MTF's know that ci cannot press the nuke so there is no motivation for them to follow negotiations or attempt to RP with ci at the time of the nuke raids.

I feel the Job of the MTF's are to protect the site rather than putting the site in danger due to people taking advantage of OOC rulings to influence RP.

After-Post Edition: Please give feedback on the suggestion instead of just -supporting as there's no way to for staff or myself to know why this suggestion is not liked, thank you

Full nuke authorisation should only be permitted by senior admin+ with valid reasons and should follow a major cooldown scale but Admins should be still allowed to non-full authorisation to just raid the room alone (as it is now)

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Would encourage RP between Foundation & CI as right now the only motivations are to just storm in and kill regardless of consequences
- People might actually start RP'ing more with ci instead of all interactions being warfare and KOSing eachother regardless of most scenarios
- Escalated scenarios could encourage GOC being brought in as a neutral party for negotiations.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Ci could pretend to have Authorisation but infect don't and cause major issues until picked up upon by staff.
- The nuke would fuck over the rest of the servers site Such as Testing, Lengthy medical procedures or GOC having captured SCP's.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I feel this should be accepted as currently All nuke room attempts that were semi successful on CI's side get shit on because Foundation does not and cannot seem to take CI Attempting to RP seriously. in a situation where the entire site is in danger and the only chance of it being de-escalation is by discussing it instead of ignoring all threats of the scenario because of rules and heading in just to get that cheap & easy XP as they take advantage over current rulings instead of taking the time to have an event level RP scenario that would lead to further interactions or In character advantages for CI.

This would force foundation to take a step back instead of just ignoring the Fear a nuke being taken control of should present.

 

[Darren]

+support i myself have lead 4 nuke room raids as CI have them all be successful yet mtf dont give a flying fuck and storm the room anyway

one situation i broke into the nuke room and MTF and ECMS ignored my comms for 20 minutes to then storm the room and kill me

 

[Dinklesprinkle]

+support i myself have lead 4 nuke room raids as CI have them all be successful yet mtf dont give a flying fuck and storm the room anyway

one situation i broke into the nuke room and MTF and ECMS ignored my comms for 20 minutes to then storm the room and kill me

yea i was a combat medic during most of them n no one cared about negotiations lmao

 

[Cob Deen]

-Support

 

[Skittles]

-Support

 

[Darren]

-Support

let me way on here if you are -supporting cause you dont want to actually have to negetiate that means you shouldnt be playing an RP server

if you think senior admins are gonna just approve these on a wim no they will not

as a ci it usually took my days to get perms from a normal SL to hostage on the nuke room if a senior admin is abusing and authorizing it to much they shouldnt be SL and will be removed

 

[YoRHaUmbra]

+Support​

This should be accepted because it doesn't happen all the time since it needs SL approval, it's one of the reasons why CI exist, to destroy the foundation if they don't get what they want.

Also one of the RP scenarios between CI and Foundation.

The only negative is if the CI detonate everyone else's RP will be distrubed and ruined, but if the foundation highers up don't act dumb and act as they should, it won't happen.

When CI does do the nuke room, MTF just rush in the nuke room because they know out of character that CI are not allowed to nuke so they don't care at all.​

 

[SquirrellyJr]

+Support

 

[Boris Johnson]

+Support

 

[Remmy]

let me way on here if you are -supporting cause you dont want to actually have to negetiate that means you shouldnt be playing an RP server

if you think senior admins are gonna just approve these on a wim no they will not

as a ci it usually took my days to get perms from a normal SL to hostage on the nuke room if a senior admin is abusing and authorizing it to much they shouldnt be SL and will be removed

You are currently banned in-game. Don't tell other people they shouldn't be playing the server.

---

Neutral leaning to +Support
I am slightly reserved on this suggestion because constant Code Blacks are not fun to deal with. But since this would be an occasional, RP heavy situation, I believe it would overall add something positive to the server.

 

[Critical]

-support.

Whilst I understand it is a massive thing to do with no real reward, there are 3 main reasons as to why this should not/will not be accepted.

1: If CI manage to hack the nuke button to activate the Nuke they will not escape the facility making it a suicide mission due to the MTF that would prevent their escape.

2: CI do not know of the nuke nor its existence. There is no documentation nor indication of the room is containing the Alpha Warhead detonation button. It is called "Redacted" on the first door, the second door says "Site Command Operations Centre". All other forms of communicating into the room is also SC OC, nothing saying "Nuke room" do hacking the keypad would seem irrelevant and the room a waste of time (unless CL5 card holders were inside).

3: The Alpha Warhead is used as an RP reset because the servers RP line has been so damaged only an RP restart can fix the server and its RP health. To activate the Alpha Warhead during a CI raid would not fix RP but destroy it as non-combatives are not warned to leave the site first meaning they have been RDMed which because it was authorised by SL as part of "CI RP" cannot have their items refunded, time refunded, documents refunded etc. This will make them upset and leave the server which damages the server health.

As Site Command we have guidelines put in place to ensure we do not ruin the servers health by activating the nuke and these guidelines can only be broken by non-Site Command SL members to repair server health.
If Site Command nuke without following the guidelines or for no reason they may be strikes, removed, blacklisted or banned for MRDM. We as Site Command have to choose carefully when the server health is being effected and when it is not. We use information such as length of Breach, number of Breaches SCPs, which SCPs are breached, what BMI they are at, where they are, how much damage they are/can cause, status if ERT, is it containable, are CI going to start complaining, are UNGOC going to start complaining, are foundation personnel going to start complaining. If, at the end of all of that server health is critical and information points to nuking, we activate the Nuke.

In a CI raid the only calculation they would have to do is "Are foundation going to rush us or are they going to negotiate?" With 0 consideration to server health.

That is why from a Site Command and Staff point if view this should/will be denied.

 

[Naffen]

-support, with the frequency of CI Raids their actions are already damaging as hell to the entire foundation, combative or not.
Allowing them to actually activate the Nuke would make it even more unbearable. Quite literally ruining the fun for majority of the server, especially with no way to deactivate it

 

[Glazzing]

+support

 

[Rice Cooker]

- Support

The nuke has most often been seen as an "out of RP" tool used by clearance 5 to reset RP. This has been somewhat affirmed by the rules that dictate only authorized foundation command are permitted to use it under any circumstances; unauthorized parties often face bans for unsanctioned use. Even with the changes you have provided, I do not believe that this change would be beneficial.

You propose the possibility of sanctioning the nuke's use by CI as a way to cultivate RP. While that may be true in other circumstances, the current situation of the nuke on the server does not allow for that. Primarily, the nuke is situated on the third floor, which is only accessible from entrance zone. In contrast to other environments that place the warhead deep within the bowels of the foundation, the server has placed the nuke in a secluded area outside the main areas of responsibility for security and MTF staff. This allows CI to access the warhead somewhat easily as the third floor is often unattended when A1 are attending to other responsibilities; this can be further exploited by activating site lockdown or closing the bulkhead in entrance zone. Admittedly, CI are simply using the tools at their disposal and may deserve the opportunity if they can hack the doors, but I don't believe that effort of a minority of people is outweighed by the definite impact to the entire server should the nuke be detonated. If access to the nuke was placed deep within HCZ, then it may be more feasible to permit its use.

You stipulate that CI should only be allowed to access and detonate the nuke with authorization from senior staff. While that is a good safeguard, there are still many hazards. In my experience, getting authorization from senior staff often comes in the form of verbal confirmation, and there exists some confusion if this authorization isn't publicly broadcasted. To even consider RP nukes as a possibility, this would have to be remedied. Furthermore, there would have to be guidelines that outline when nukes are allowed to be authorized, and I can't imagine situations outside of events where that might be needed.

As I write this, Critical has provided more feedback that I will be referencing. In nearly every decision, the reigning consideration for changes to the server both in and outside of RP was server health. Site command are a minority of people given the responsibility as well as the burden of determining when a breach has impacted the health of the server to a point where it is more beneficial to reset rather than let it continue. Unfortunately, we can not rely on members of CI to be constantly considerate of server health. This certainly isn't to say that they are maliciously impacting people's experiences, but I have witnessed many situations where things have gotten out of hand. Even if senior staff are there to regulate the frequency of these events, I do not believe that the minimal potential benefit to RP outweighs the guaranteed impact should this change be implemented.

 

[Darren]

2: CI do not know of the nuke nor its existence. There is no documentation nor indication of the room is containing the Alpha Warhead detonation button. It is called "Redacted" on the first door, the second door says "Site Command Operations Centre". All other forms of communicating into the room is also SC OC, nothing saying "Nuke room" do hacking the keypad would seem irrelevant and the room a waste of time (unless CL5 card holders were inside).

yes they do

3: The Alpha Warhead is used as an RP reset because the servers RP line has been so damaged only an RP restart can fix the server and its RP health. To activate the Alpha Warhead during a CI raid would not fix RP but destroy it as non-combatives are not warned to leave the site first meaning they have been RDMed which because it was authorised by SL as part of "CI RP" cannot have their items refunded, time refunded, documents refunded etc. This will make them upset and leave the server which damages the server health.

those random researchers unless blind can clearly see in comms whats going on and in ocomms negotions between CI and mtf therefore have knowledge of the nukle being held hostage they can save their clipboards even if they die it still saves their documents and just be dropped or placed on a board they die they can pick it right back up

As Site Command we have guidelines put in place to ensure we do not ruin the servers health by activating the nuke and these guidelines can only be broken by non-Site Command SL members to repair server health.
If Site Command nuke without following the guidelines or for no reason they may be strikes, removed, blacklisted or banned for MRDM. We as Site Command have to choose carefully when the server health is being effected and when it is not. We use information such as length of Breach, number of Breaches SCPs, which SCPs are breached, what BMI they are at, where they are, how much damage they are/can cause, status if ERT, is it containable, are CI going to start complaining, are UNGOC going to start complaining, are foundation personnel going to start complaining. If, at the end of all of that server health is critical and information points to nuking, we activate the Nuke.

so would CI in this case they cant just nuke raid when they please they would need a senior admin to approve this not only that hacking the CL6 in the first place which then must wait around 50 seconds to actually start the countdown so while mtf are outside it would take CI god knows how long to hack that CL6 then another 50 second cooldown which can be stopped will occur

also this would have a very long cooldown i imagine around a week so its not gonna be happening everyday

In a CI raid the only calculation they would have to do is "Are foundation going to rush us or are they going to negotiate?" With 0 consideration to server health.

That is why from a Site Command and Staff point if view this should/will be denied.

simply not true ive led over 300 CI raids and i can tell you quite alot of thought goes into our raids including the teaching and raw practice it takes to lead a CI raid and the practice it needs to work in perfect sync in CI usually only gamma PLP + can lead raids however delcoms can authorise it

meaning each CI at minimum will have to go through and be in CI and be active and exception for around 1.5 Month to even get a chance at leading a CI Mainraid which will require hundreds of hours into PVP combat hacking raiding tactics and leading skills and formations this isnt something anyone can fucking do

it requires a obscene amount of planning skill and raw knowledge to even pull off a successful nuke room raid nevermind detonate the nuke

 

[Rev. Doofster Runner]

-Support

Not needed, nuke is there as an RP reset, that's it's whole point.

Plus as CI it's more fun to cause them to nuke the site themselves, then us having to.

 

[Scopes]

-Support

They already technically can nuke if Super Admin+ gives them permission.

 

[KingViper115]

+Support

More chaos and better alternative reason to raid rather than just rush to hcz and breach some scps.

 

[Michael Dzhetnikov]

It would be cool, but it would need permission wouldnt it? Maybe have 2 nuke types, RP and OOC

RP Nuke: Kills everyone who isnt in breach shelters, Dimensions, Kills certain SCPs such as 049, 076-2, 079, 966 etc. and makes SCPs like 682 and 7722 beamable and have reduced stats, and doesnt kill any SCP on surface
OOC: Recontains Everything and kills everyone in the facility, Dimensions and shelters included.

We need this.

 

[Khan]

-support