Denied CI Being allowed to Nuke

[Dinklesprinkle]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This rule would make it so during an authorised nuke room raid CI should be permitted to activate the nuke as currently every attempted nuke room raid where ci have captured the room always gets foiled by MTF not caring about the sites security and storming in regardless of the threat that ci holding a nuke room should hold. I also feel this is the case because MTF's know that ci cannot press the nuke so there is no motivation for them to follow negotiations or attempt to RP with ci at the time of the nuke raids.

I feel the Job of the MTF's are to protect the site rather than putting the site in danger due to people taking advantage of OOC rulings to influence RP.

After-Post Edition: Please give feedback on the suggestion instead of just -supporting as there's no way to for staff or myself to know why this suggestion is not liked, thank you

Full nuke authorisation should only be permitted by senior admin+ with valid reasons and should follow a major cooldown scale but Admins should be still allowed to non-full authorisation to just raid the room alone (as it is now)

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
- Would encourage RP between Foundation & CI as right now the only motivations are to just storm in and kill regardless of consequences
- People might actually start RP'ing more with ci instead of all interactions being warfare and KOSing eachother regardless of most scenarios
- Escalated scenarios could encourage GOC being brought in as a neutral party for negotiations.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
- Ci could pretend to have Authorisation but infect don't and cause major issues until picked up upon by staff.
- The nuke would fuck over the rest of the servers site Such as Testing, Lengthy medical procedures or GOC having captured SCP's.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
I feel this should be accepted as currently All nuke room attempts that were semi successful on CI's side get shit on because Foundation does not and cannot seem to take CI Attempting to RP seriously. in a situation where the entire site is in danger and the only chance of it being de-escalation is by discussing it instead of ignoring all threats of the scenario because of rules and heading in just to get that cheap & easy XP as they take advantage over current rulings instead of taking the time to have an event level RP scenario that would lead to further interactions or In character advantages for CI.

This would force foundation to take a step back instead of just ignoring the Fear a nuke being taken control of should present.

 

[Otters]

-Support

I agree, MTF's should RP it more and care more if CI are holding the site hostage, however giving them the ability to actually do it is gonna be extremely bad.

 

[Gure]

Neutral
As a CI player myself, this would be pretty cool, adds more raid ideas towards the so limited raid ideas that CI are limited to. The only massive downside is the minges that will come from this. This would be a really cool idea to be implemented, while it is very tricky to get into just the nuke room, a few cl5 doors. If it did become a thing, it would be balanced if it were limited to about 1 nuke attempt per day, and requires a certain amount of A1 on and atleast and O5 on. Would also be cool if they implemented a system where you could stop the nuke from detonating.

 

[Speff]

+support

 

[Niox]

+Support
-CI Nuke raids need authed by SL, and are usually once a Month. A Nuke that would kill everyone would be Pointless, unless Negotiations have Failed.
-Encourages an OOC Reason to do Negotiations (As F know OOC that CI can't Nuke, so they can be as Risky as Possible)
-RP Situations could be Killed
-No, a Alpha won't Minge and Hack the Nuke. Its a Fucking CL6, everyone would Notice.

I want to also say as a CI CO:
A Nuke will only, and ONLY Occur if Negotiations have Failed. If we would Nuke it would be No one but Foundation's Fault for letting it go Off.
Obviously Negotiations won't be Extreme as hell.

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

Ok i'm gonna respond to every single -support that has a reason, anybody without one i'm gonna disregard:
I'll just put a few points here in case they are commonly not mentioned or forgotten
(A): The Chaos Insurgency are a fanatical and brainwashed organisation. There are SCP tales and the like showing the people in command and lower down have been brainwashed through memetics, cognitohazard infection, and more. They will fanatically do anything to make sure the Engine gets what it wants, even if it means that they die. Think about using cyanide so they aren't caught.
I can link a lot of CI reports from the SCP wiki showing how they commonly expose type blues and greens to memetics to brainwash them, or convert foundation members to their side through anomalous means.
(B): A lot of the Chaos Insurgency is Ex-Foundation and Alpha-1. This means they already know a lot about the foundation and its workings, they are just working against it. Hostage raids and lore collected by us ingame have also given us solid knowledge of the nuke.
(C): The idea of the nuke being an RP reset only came about after 10/12/22, when amnestic gas was ruled as powergaming. However, after what happened many months ago, it is not not very rare to see csays that say "A cloud of amnestic gas covers Pinewood" or "A cloud of gas is covering pinewood" to do things like amnesticise civs or remove 008 spores on surface
(D): Nobody in this server has ever experienced the rush of an UNFORSEEN NUKE DETONATION. The feeling of rushing to an evac shelter from HCZ might be an RP opportunity that nobody has ever experienced.
(E): Restrictions will obviously be put in place, for example "You can only nuke once a week" or "There must be at least 100 players online"

1: If CI manage to hack the nuke button to activate the Nuke they will not escape the facility making it a suicide mission due to the MTF that would prevent their escape.

2: CI do not know of the nuke nor its existence. There is no documentation nor indication of the room is containing the Alpha Warhead detonation button. It is called "Redacted" on the first door, the second door says "Site Command Operations Centre". All other forms of communicating into the room is also SC OC, nothing saying "Nuke room" do hacking the keypad would seem irrelevant and the room a waste of time (unless CL5 card holders were inside).

3: The Alpha Warhead is used as an RP reset because the servers RP line has been so damaged only an RP restart can fix the server and its RP health. To activate the Alpha Warhead during a CI raid would not fix RP but destroy it as non-combatives are not warned to leave the site first meaning they have been RDMed which because it was authorised by SL as part of "CI RP" cannot have their items refunded, time refunded, documents refunded etc. This will make them upset and leave the server which damages the server health.

As Site Command we have guidelines put in place to ensure we do not ruin the servers health by activating the nuke and these guidelines can only be broken by non-Site Command SL members to repair server health.
If Site Command nuke without following the guidelines or for no reason they may be strikes, removed, blacklisted or banned for MRDM. We as Site Command have to choose carefully when the server health is being effected and when it is not. We use information such as length of Breach, number of Breaches SCPs, which SCPs are breached, what BMI they are at, where they are, how much damage they are/can cause, status if ERT, is it containable, are CI going to start complaining, are UNGOC going to start complaining, are foundation personnel going to start complaining. If, at the end of all of that server health is critical and information points to nuking, we activate the Nuke.

In a CI raid the only calculation they would have to do is "Are foundation going to rush us or are they going to negotiate?" With 0 consideration to server health.

1
The point of a nuke raid is that they are paid a ransom otherwise they will activate it. If you don't pay the money, they all die because the Engineer tells them to. See (A)
2
CI are comprised of ex foundation MTF groups, A1, and more. They've either joined willingly, been brainwashed, or both. Many have worked directly under the O5 council and defectors aren't rare in the SCP universe. In the past we've hacked into the nuke room multiple times, and have captured O5 members that we have interrogated to gain knowledge of it. See (B)
3
The Alpha Warhead is only now used as an RP reset. See (C).

In this final part you're basically saying "you can be warned for nuking!" which is exactly what the suggestion is trying to change, so I don't know why you're mentioning it.

-support, with the frequency of CI Raids their actions are already damaging as hell to the entire foundation, combative or not.
Allowing them to actually activate the Nuke would make it even more unbearable. Quite literally ruining the fun for majority of the server, especially with no way to deactivate it

60 seconds to deactivate the nuke once it has been hacked, bumrush in and press the button hope you make it. A nuke raid, much like 008 raids, can always have restrictions on it like "you can only nuke the site once a week". Also see (E)

The nuke has most often been seen as an "out of RP" tool used by clearance 5 to reset RP. This has been somewhat affirmed by the rules that dictate only authorized foundation command are permitted to use it under any circumstances; unauthorized parties often face bans for unsanctioned use. Even with the changes you have provided, I do not believe that this change would be beneficial.

You propose the possibility of sanctioning the nuke's use by CI as a way to cultivate RP. While that may be true in other circumstances, the current situation of the nuke on the server does not allow for that. Primarily, the nuke is situated on the third floor, which is only accessible from entrance zone. In contrast to other environments that place the warhead deep within the bowels of the foundation, the server has placed the nuke in a secluded area outside the main areas of responsibility for security and MTF staff. This allows CI to access the warhead somewhat easily as the third floor is often unattended when A1 are attending to other responsibilities; this can be further exploited by activating site lockdown or closing the bulkhead in entrance zone. Admittedly, CI are simply using the tools at their disposal and may deserve the opportunity if they can hack the doors, but I don't believe that effort of a minority of people is outweighed by the definite impact to the entire server should the nuke be detonated. If access to the nuke was placed deep within HCZ, then it may be more feasible to permit its use.

You stipulate that CI should only be allowed to access and detonate the nuke with authorization from senior staff. While that is a good safeguard, there are still many hazards. In my experience, getting authorization from senior staff often comes in the form of verbal confirmation, and there exists some confusion if this authorization isn't publicly broadcasted. To even consider RP nukes as a possibility, this would have to be remedied. Furthermore, there would have to be guidelines that outline when nukes are allowed to be authorized, and I can't imagine situations outside of events where that might be needed.

As I write this, Critical has provided more feedback that I will be referencing. In nearly every decision, the reigning consideration for changes to the server both in and outside of RP was server health. Site command are a minority of people given the responsibility as well as the burden of determining when a breach has impacted the health of the server to a point where it is more beneficial to reset rather than let it continue. Unfortunately, we can not rely on members of CI to be constantly considerate of server health. This certainly isn't to say that they are maliciously impacting people's experiences, but I have witnessed many situations where things have gotten out of hand. Even if senior staff are there to regulate the frequency of these events, I do not believe that the minimal potential benefit to RP outweighs the guaranteed impact should this change be implemented.

See (C).
Alpha 1 doesn't have too many duties, and one of them is to guard floor 3. Keep in mind that they have to do something like 2 CL4s, and 2 CL7s. That's not easy, especially after certain hackers were kicked out of CI.
You complain that verbal authorisation and confirmation is unreliable, if it's required to be in message form so be it. An admin can type in discord "NUKE RAID AUTHED" to hammer in that we are allowed to do it

-Support

Not needed, nuke is there as an RP reset, that's it's whole point.

Plus as CI it's more fun to cause them to nuke the site themselves, then us having to.

See (C), also you can always do HCZ raids but a nuke raid successfully hacking it on would be an amazing feeling you've never experienced

The possibility that mingey people would hop on as CI and fail raid/hack and activate the nuke while there is no ISD guarding it is too high during early or late hours. Due to previous experience, CI would raid the nuke room while there is only few A-1 online which would constantly lead to unnecessary issues.

See (E).

I would be more inclined to support this if nuke room/floor 3 was significantly harder to get to, floor 3 is incredibly easy to access for CI due to it being by itself in EZ, if they make it to floor 2 without being called out, or reinforcements not arriving yet they basically have free access to floor 3.

See (E).

They already technically can nuke if Super Admin+ gives them permission.

Nope, you need 130 players online to hack it which is impossibe on any server in garrys mod

 

[Man of Culture]

Nope, you need 130 players online to hack it which is impossibe on any server in garrys mod

Who the fuck said this lol

 

[Darren]

See (C).
Alpha 1 doesn't have too many duties, and one of them is to guard floor 3. Keep in mind that they have to do something like 2 CL4s, and 2 CL7s. That's not easy, especially after certain hackers were kicked out of CI.

thing i would like to mention also hacking a godamn CL7 is not fucking easy at all ive hacked 008 over 40 times out day out when i was in CI it took me months to be able to do cl5 consistantly then CL6 which took like a extra few weeks and over 30 hours into it and then CL7

hacking a Clearence 7 for me takes every little bit of concentration in my body and to be completely calm during the hack i who hacked out 008 over 30 times at the minimum still have difficulty with CL7/CL8 its not easy try doing a CL7 while in the middle of a battle with everyone in TS shouting at you its not easy

although many people will be quick to point out many videos in highlights of people hacking CL7s you know what the common occurance in those videos are they are alone in a room no distractions and no combat and they have been usually there for atleast an hour + and got a really easy CL7

out of my time in the server ive hacked approx 8 CL7s in total and 3 Level 8s and each time it took almost all my concentration to do so with extreme difficiculty i would say if CI manage to hack 2 CL7 while defending against squadrons of mtf rushing the nuke room that is a deserved nuke detonation

also bill is right most of the time when the nuke is detonated people are hiding inside garage leading to quite literally no one benig scared of the nuke imagine all of a sudden the nuke detonates cause a hostage situation went wrong the entire server would go balistic with every researcher gensec and mtf rushing for surface in teh chaos dclass will escape and i imagine it would be quite fun and interesting to play in

 

[Dinklesprinkle]

Who the fuck said this lol

im unsure if the usa has it but the nuke does infact have a population cap thats pretty close to max pop requirement so

 

[Darren]

im unsure if the usa has it but the nuke does infact have a population cap thats pretty close to max pop requirement so

its 129 to be exact

 

[Broda]

- Support

If people are bum rushing in, then they need to be warned by staff. CI detonating the nuke will just disrupt RP for the MAIN faction even further. Sorry to say it CI players, you are not the main gameplay loop here.
If CI raid the nuke room and hold it then RP must be upheld by both sides, but i'll comment on UK CI specifically, historically UK CI do not RP and tend to fuck around too much, causing UK Foundation to literally not bother due to behaviour by the UK CI Team. I have a metric ton of evidence to this and reached out many times to CI COM about this, including a meeting. The burden of behaviour falls to the CI team to create good RP, rather than minge and continuously tarnish the UK CI reputation.

 

[Vollgas]

-Support

When you browse "horrible idea" on the encyclopedia, this comes up. My opinion is the same as Broda's

If people are bum rushing in, then they need to be warned by staff. CI detonating the nuke will just disrupt RP for the MAIN faction even further. Sorry to say it CI players, you are not the main gameplay loop here.
If CI raid the nuke room and hold it then RP must be upheld by both sides, but i'll comment on UK CI specifically, historically UK CI do not RP and tend to fuck around too much, causing UK Foundation to literally not bother due to behaviour by the UK CI Team. I have a metric ton of evidence to this and reached out many times to CI COM about this, including a meeting. The burden of behaviour falls to the CI team to create good RP, rather than minge and continuously tarnish the UK CI reputation.

 

[Darren]

- Support
reached out many times to CI COM about this, including a meeting. The burden of behaviour falls to the CI team to create good RP, rather than minge and continuously tarnish the UK CI reputation.

if the commander didnt work reach out to SL

 

[Jack Kincaid]

-Support​

I would LOVE to watch 8 CI bomb rush nuke room on anima and potent

 

['Scorpion' | 'Hitman']

-support

 

[Stealth]

- Support

Clear reasons on why this shouldn't be accepted have been said in the above.

 

[Jonas Enry]

- Support

It doesn’t make any sense for CI to nuke IC as the mule would not only kill them in site but also destroy large area aswell as their base and the surroundings it makes no sense. Plus the nuke room is very easy to reach so could be abused as if in an instance there were 6 E-11 online who is there to stop ci raiding to nuke? It just doesn’t seem needed. My personal suggestion would be to update a rule about ci and MTF having to at least attempt negotiation before combat is attempted if ci raid nuke room

 

[Niox]

My personal suggestion would be to update a rule about ci and MTF having to at least attempt negotiation before combat is attempted if ci raid nuke room

It is a Rule to have to negotiate.... They just don't (such as Yesterday)

 

[grunger]

+/-

It would be a neat implementation, but I don't see how this would positively influence RP in the long run. It's just another bargaining chip CI will be able to have, and a massive middle finger to passive RP.

 

[Monker]

+support funny

 

[Darren]

- Support

If people are bum rushing in, then they need to be warned by staff. CI detonating the nuke will just disrupt RP for the MAIN faction even further. Sorry to say it CI players, you are not the main gameplay loop here.
If CI raid the nuke room and hold it then RP must be upheld by both sides, but i'll comment on UK CI specifically, historically UK CI do not RP and tend to fuck around too much, causing UK Foundation to literally not bother due to behaviour by the UK CI Team. I have a metric ton of evidence to this and reached out many times to CI COM about this, including a meeting. The burden of behaviour falls to the CI team to create good RP, rather than minge and continuously tarnish the UK CI reputation.

i would like to ask you what do you define as mingy you mean anti foundation gameplay if a parawatch breaks into HCZ and info leaks accross Ocomms people call him a minge why?

its anti foundation gameplay CI are your enemys they wont talk with you or chat with you cant exactly just RP with them

Look broda i see many people like you going on about how CI can rp a fuck ton how about you go try it for yourself join CI yourself and tell me how easy it is RP with foundation you will quickly be humbled