Rule Suggestion CI limitations during low pop [US]

[John Schnatter]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Some form of limits to CI operations within the site during low-pop hours. I recently endured a 5-hour on-and-off raid of disguised D-class and CI nearly taking over the entire site, killing people who are making chems in a secluded area, kidnapping the same people 3+ times in a row within a 2-3 hour window, and holding people for over an hour.

I suggest either a rule limiting operations to once every [SUM OF REASONABLE TIME when BELOW CERTAIN PLAYER COUNT] or making hostile frontal assault raids on site not allowed under a certain PLAYER COUNT instead of the ridiculous rule I heard when discussing this issue of "4+ mtf units = raidable" (esspecially since apparently, they can flag on mtf units, take a picture of that, and then flag back onto ci and use that picture as proof there are enough mtf to raid?), as this rule does not take into account the amount of CI that can raid. The current setup allows a disproportionate amount of CI to enter the site, like what we had today with 10+ CI sitting in medbay, completely oppressing site personnel, while there were maybe 10 combatives in total, some of whom we were spending their time decorating checkpoint charlie.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Not that I could find within recent threads. Please let me know if I am incorrect.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
Server health in the low-pop and even medium-pop environment

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
Complaints from CI members who regularly play low-pop hours.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
Yes. I just watched an extremely dedicated consultant rage quit from the server after being kidnapped 2-3 times within the same raid and dying when someone attempted to kidnap him again while holding a fresh batch of expensive and rare chemicals. Not because he was armed or defending himself, but because a d class who had teamed with the CI felt a little trigger happy and decided to shoot the consultant for fun.

Allowing this to happen regularly is not good for server health.

 

[Aphex]

Okay, but wouldn't the directive be the exact same? the engineer speaks for the engine even if it is a false god he would relay those orders to the command structure of CI, Which would order it to those below them (Alphas most likely being mercenaries or liberated dclass if they are not mind controlled) to eliminate anyone within the site since they aren't followers of the cult?

Never ever has any GM or staff played the Engineer and ever said "Kill everyone in site!"

The argument here wasn't at all discrediting what you're saying other than the point that CI is a cult, and aren't all "brainwashed" unless they have been Class-F'ed. They are simply indoctrinated and have been fed propaganda since they started serving the Chaos Insurgency as Alphas.

I don't believe killing chemists should be considered RDM but like, its just a dick move, if a DC needs card they need a card, unfortunately i can see why DCs would go for chemists, they are in a secluded area with no gensec presence

It isn't RDM, but it's more NITRP. When CI kill someone for no apparent reason other than "no witnesses" or "they would've called be out," in a scenario where they've already made themselves apparent during a raid. I'd be ok with it if it was a DC for a disguise or for a keycard, but if you get spotted by a non-combative but you still kill them, that's fine, but if it's during an active RP situation like a discussion or an experiment, or something like making chemicals, then I'd rule that as NITRP, but I'm not staff.

 

[Evil]

Note for anyone who sees this: Killing someone without an RP reason can still be RDM, even if you're a CI.

you know its amazing how i can simply say
my reason to kill this noncombatant is that our objective is to disrupt foundation operations by harming foundation personnel

 

["Arachnid"]

Never ever has any GM or staff played the Engineer and ever said "Kill everyone in site!"

Are GMs required for roleplay?

It isn't RDM, but it's more NITRP. When CI kill someone for no apparent reason other than "no witnesses" or "they would've called be out," in a scenario where they've already made themselves apparent during a raid. I'd be ok with it if it was a DC for a disguise or for a keycard, but if you get spotted by a non-combative but you still kill them, that's fine, but if it's during an active RP situation like a discussion or an experiment, or something like making chemicals, then I'd rule that as NITRP, but I'm not staff.

Would you like every CI member to walk up to non combatives and give a preamble of "Hey! are you currently in a ROLEPLAY SITUATION", In situations where they'd be interfering in tests or going into chemlab there would be an already set goal to why they are there, If they are entering a containment cell they are most likely breaching the SCP, even those few seconds where they are preping a defense could be vital before they start hacking, The non combative calling it out in comms is life or death for raiding party, Or if they are doing a defensive raid in chemlab what would be the purpose of a hostage that they'd be unable to get to surface? just kill them so the non combative doesnt have to sit there for 10-45 minutes while they hold the chokepoint

 

[Aphex]

Are GMs required for roleplay?

They are the only ones (outside of other Event Team Supervisors and SSL) allowed to depict a character such as The Engineer or an entity such as The Engine. The point was that CI don't have a stated goal from the Engineer or The Engine, they simply follow the mission statement of "Create logic from illogic." It's not the Engineer or the Engine saying "Kill everyone in site, they are threats," they are creating their own objectives, which is perfectly fine and exactly how it should be.
Players don't need a stated goal from an event character to predetermine the goals of the relevant faction unless it relates to an event storyline of some kind.

Would you like every CI member to walk up to non combatives and give a preamble of "Hey! are you currently in a ROLEPLAY SITUATION", In situations where they'd be interfering in tests or going into chemlab there would be an already set goal to why they are there, If they are entering a containment cell they are most likely breaching the SCP, even those few seconds where they are preping a defense could be vital before they start hacking, The non combative calling it out in comms is life or death for raiding party, Or if they are doing a defensive raid in chemlab what would be the purpose of a hostage that they'd be unable to get to surface? just kill them so the non combative doesnt have to sit there for 10-45 minutes while they hold the chokepoint

I guess this is fair enough, but the scenario depicted for this suggestion sounds like CI just kill whoever they want during times where it's horrendously inappropriate from a server health perspective. I'm fine if there were more restrictions to CI raids during lowpop times, but it's mainly a leadership issue, and it should be regulated by SL if it becomes an issue like it's depicted here.

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

If anything, the replies in this thread prove how poor it is to have CI on the server.

 

[Dusk]

I can see both the positives and negatives here, but from the first reply alone it’s clear that the core issue isn’t the content itself, it’s the people shaping it. The way groups function on this server often determines whether a system succeeds or fails, and too often the structure or culture of the playerbase ends up twisting a good idea into something unbalanced.

From the outside looking in, it’s easy to pin this on CI. But from the inside looking out, it’s really a leadership and consistency problem. Conflicting rules, unclear expectations, and a lack of proper oversight lead to players acting on impulse rather than coordination. When leadership doesn’t provide direction or enforcement, members start to do whatever they want, whenever they want. That’s what creates chaos, not the content itself.

 

[Steffan]

+support
low pop raids suck ass

 

[Henrii]

- support
CI's sole purpose is to disrupt the Foundation in anyway possible, in-lore and in-game. Especially in low-pop where keycards are not being sold and auto-breaches are disabled, CI generates activity during hours when alot of stuff does not happen.

 

[Mozzie]

He’s asking not to get shot while making chems by a bunch of sweats. He’s not asking for total CI annihilation. Like randomly shooting people over and over is not RP is just stupid. But muh my fun.

That's just a staff issue his suggestion has no substance

 

[chez_curd]

Never ever has any GM or staff played the Engineer and ever said "Kill everyone in site!"

The argument here wasn't at all discrediting what you're saying other than the point that CI is a cult, and aren't all "brainwashed" unless they have been Class-F'ed. They are simply indoctrinated and have been fed propaganda since they started serving the Chaos Insurgency as Alphas.

It isn't RDM, but it's more NITRP. When CI kill someone for no apparent reason other than "no witnesses" or "they would've called be out," in a scenario where they've already made themselves apparent during a raid. I'd be ok with it if it was a DC for a disguise or for a keycard, but if you get spotted by a non-combative but you still kill them, that's fine, but if it's during an active RP situation like a discussion or an experiment, or something like making chemicals, then I'd rule that as NITRP, but I'm not staff.

What this guy said

 

[chez_curd]

- support
CI's sole purpose is to disrupt the Foundation in anyway possible, in-lore and in-game. Especially in low-pop where keycards are not being sold and auto-breaches are disabled, CI generates activity during hours when alot of stuff does not happen.

Autobreaches are never disabled, excluding during a breach.

 

[John Schnatter]

First of all

-Support
The more you limit what people on the server can do because you don't agree with the way the server should work leads to less fun and more ruleplay

This suggestion came from a large group of people who were NOT having fun due to the oppressive force of 10+ CI raiding during low-pop. This is only a suggestion for something happening DURING LOW POP, which will affect a small number of people.

Maybe combatives not doing their job is the issue? -support

What part of "no combatives on" did you not read? There were like two MTFs, a response unit, and some combat medics, if that. I don't know how else to spell out that the combatives could not keep up.

Note for anyone who sees this: Killing someone without an RP reason can still be RDM, even if you're a CI.

It was a D-class, not a CI. The CI did not want this consultant killed, but the D-class did anyway. Either way, this was less than an hour after he was kidnapped previously. It was oppressive, unfun, and frankly uncalled for, whether he was killed or kidnapped. He was in the cl4 chem lab.

"[US]" is crazy

I only play US. I didnt know what else to write, sorry.

- Support

I’m not against CI raiding low pop - though, I would argue at most a limitation of the surge of CI TB and jugg during low pop

Neither am I. If CI wanna raid low pop go for it ig. But frequent oppresive raids with 10+ ci involving kidnappings every 30 minutes to 1 hour all night long WITH jug and tb present is not a good thing.

How is this CI's fault

Did you read the part where this was their 3rd raid of the night with more to follow? They already kidnapped this dude twice. Why are they kidnapping him again? He has nothing more to give them. And yes, this was all in ONE LIFE. He was returned twice and then killed by a D-class during the third attempt. It's oppressive, and if you can't see that, then I can't explain it any better.

- support
CI's sole purpose is to disrupt the Foundation in anyway possible, in-lore and in-game. Especially in low-pop where keycards are not being sold and auto-breaches are disabled, CI generates activity during hours when alot of stuff does not happen.

And the foundations job is to secure contain and protect. Do you really think it makes sense that their containment specialists, e-11, who own HCZ, would all disappear off site? As well as most of the other MTF units? Leaving site-65, one of the most dangerous sites in the world left guarded by LESS than a skeleton crew? CI raiding with an army on low pop doesn't "generate activity". It generates frustration. Every combative involved that I spoke to about what happened was not happy with the situation.

That's just a staff issue his suggestion has no substance

This HAS to be ragebait. From the other replies im reading and the amount of upheaval this is causing, not only did I kick a hornets nest but it seems to me that this is more of a CI leadership not taking server health into consideration. Not "admins are being lazy bums" or whatever.

Long story short, this is not a post about preventing CI from raiding at all. I don't understand why people are taking it that way. This is ONLY to limit during times where the server (and subsequently the site) does not have the combative manpower to handle massive raids or consistent kidnappings, allowing CI to take full advantage of the opportunity to gang up on the personnel inside and bully them for hours. It's the opposite of fun. It's boring, frustrating, and/or rage-inducing for anyone involved who is NOT CI.

 

[Average member podidski]

What part of "no combatives on" did you not read? There were like two MTFs, a response unit, and some combat medics, if that. I don't know how else to spell out that the combatives could not keep up.

Wait wait wait wait, if there was really two MTFs, response unit and some random combat medics then: How the fuck did CI raid you during your lowpop time? if we talking about two CI hopping on MTF and then hopping off after CI start their raid then sure but if what you saying is true, then all the CI should got action by staff. (unless staff was on CI that is)

 

[YandereMuffin]

Is this an official SL ruling...? Because I'm going to be honest, This doesn't make sense, Their "RP reason" to kill anyone on site can be "The engine told me to kill foundation" or "I didn't want them to comms in my location"

1.02 Do not RDM/RVDM- Random Deathmatch or Random Vehicle Deathmatch. You must have a real and justifiable reason to kill or attempt to kill another player.

This doesn't need an "official SL ruling", but I guess it isn't one since it is just directly in the rules.

You cannot just kill people without an in-character RP reason, no roles are exempt from needing to RP while being played...

 

[Mozzie]

This HAS to be ragebait. From the other replies im reading and the amount of upheaval this is causing, not only did I kick a hornets nest but it seems to me that this is more of a CI leadership not taking server health into consideration. Not "admins are being lazy bums" or whatever.

Long story short, this is not a post about preventing CI from raiding at all. I don't understand why people are taking it that way. This is ONLY to limit during times where the server (and subsequently the site) does not have the combative manpower to handle massive raids or consistent kidnappings, allowing CI to take full advantage of the opportunity to gang up on the personnel inside and bully them for hours. It's the opposite of fun. It's boring, frustrating, and/or rage-inducing for anyone involved who is NOT CI.

its not ragebait, limiting what people can do on a RP SERVER is not fun and counter intuitive to the server imo. Also no one called Staff lazy bums?????

to add to this post as I was there for those raids, unless someone can prove otherwise I didnt see anyone kidnapp the same person twice or see someone kidnap a consultant in the cl4 chem room, I specifically was waiting until they left to try to kidnap.

 

[John Schnatter]

Wait wait wait wait, if there was really two MTFs, response unit and some random combat medics then: How the fuck did CI raid you during your lowpop time? if we talking about two CI hopping on MTF and then hopping off after CI start their raid then sure but if what you saying is true, then all the CI should got action by staff. (unless staff was on CI that is)

The only staff member online was a CI-D. And I don't know if they hopped on mtf. Even if there were NO mtf, they had the numbers to flag on take a pic and flag off. I don't watch the MTF numbers. I just know that suddenly there were 10+ CI on site and they didn't leave us alone for 5+ hours.

its not ragebait, limiting what people can do on a RP SERVER is not fun and counter intuitive to the server imo. Also no one called Staff lazy bums?????

to add to this post as I was there for those raids, unless someone can prove otherwise I didnt see anyone kidnapp the same person twice or see someone kidnap a consultant in the cl4 chem room, I specifically was waiting until they left to try to kidnap.

I don't want to name names, but I'll let them know that proof has been requested. And I know it wasn't directly said, but the lazy mod thing was insinuated when people started saying it's a staff issue instead of a rule issue, which it's not. Also, are you sure the other half of the server that were constantly complaining in OOC and to me personally were having a great time RPing on an SCP RP server by doing nothing but combat while outnumbered and constantly showing up to their spawn because of this, over and over again. Or how about the NON combatives who were being bullied so much they just stayed in their spawn, where you couldn't get them the whole time until they became stir crazy or got off or flagged onto a combative roll because they were bored. Sounds to me like you either enjoy dogshit RP or are just trying to ragebait like CI are notorious for. Based on your previous help roles, I'd say it's both.

 

["Aki"]

well i'm very happy it says "US" atleast

both servers share same rules, same content... this is something you report to SSL and speak to the CI CO's.. as this never happens on UK, randomly killing is a very good way to get warned for RDM or removed from CI, noncombatants get caught in a lot of things like getting kidnapped or shot in crossfire but we will never go out of our way to shoot someone who isn't calling us out or shooting at us

 

[Jimothy"Hamster"]

Okay, but wouldn't the directive be the exact same? the engineer speaks for the engine even if it is a false god he would relay those orders to the command structure of CI, Which would order it to those below them (Alphas most likely being mercenaries or liberated dclass if they are not mind controlled) to eliminate anyone within the site since they aren't followers of the cult?

Yah but realistically why would CI target chemists or doctors instead of actual important individuals like SA or combatives. I dont think realistically CI would be sprinting around site just aiming to shoot whoever, they have a specific goal when raiding sites and should stick to that goal, not K/D farm

 

["Arachnid"]

Yah but realistically why would CI target chemists or doctors instead of actual important individuals like SA or combatives. I dont think realistically CI would be sprinting around site just aiming to shoot whoever, they have a specific goal when raiding sites and should stick to that goal, not K/D farm

Realistically its a single bullet that would kill it, what would they lose by shooting them?

 

[Jimothy"Hamster"]

Realistically its a single bullet that would kill it, what would they lose by shooting them?

what im saying is realistically they wouldnt even be aynwhere near the chemist and instead would be focusing on their mission goal, this is also a part of a wider issue of CI not having actual RP reasons for raiding and rarely try to just exfil