Denied Disallow PD (except FBI) from Hacking

[AnthonyFuller]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
This suggestion changes the rules so that PD (except FBI) cannot hack, if PD (excl. FBI) do hack, it's FailRP.

PD are not allowed to do anything illegal, so why are they allowed to hack into PD or DHCP? FBI should be allowed to hack as that's technically in scope of their job (for investigations only).

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
As far as I know, no.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
It would stop all PD members being distracted by hacking.
It would also make FBI more useful as a job, as they can counter hack people who are hacking the PD or DHCP.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
Some existing RP may be disrupted (thinking of ICO-19 here). Apart from this, I don't see any other negatives.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
This would increase the RP value of an FBI agent which currently is slightly useless due to the broken hack phone.

 

[hj10wen]

-support This make ICO-19 Useless and also Every pd job Should be allowed to Count Hack and what happens if all the FBI that are online cant do mnhacking

 

[Chetso]

- support
Raise the RP value of FBI while removing RP value of the other PD jobs and making things more complicated, feels like the negatives outweigh the positives IMO

 

[AnthonyFuller]

This make ICO-19 Useless

No, just become an FBI agent.

all the FBI that are online cant do mnhacking

Then people who can should become an FBI agent.

Raise the RP value of FBI while removing RP value of the other PD jobs and making things more complicated

PD members are not allowed to do anything illegal (it's technically FailRP otherwise), so why should they be able to hack (an illegal action)?

 

[Shrimp]

I like this suggestion but also would like the hack phones to be fixed and/or give the FBI agents battering rams to conduct their own investigations based on warrants. One of the reasons I play as a police officer when I'm doing ICO-19 is just because I need a battering ram to actually get to where the terminals are. It's very hard to conduct any sort of investigation when you're restricted by whether the suspect even wants to let you in or not. The suggestion does make sense though as I don't think it makes sense for jobs with miniguns to be trying to hack you lol. As long as there is some way for law enforcement to engage in counter hacking I feel like this suggestion is fine.

 

[Chetso]

No, just become an FBI agent.


Then people who can should become an FBI agent.


PD members are not allowed to do anything illegal (it's technically FailRP otherwise), so why should they be able to hack (an illegal action)?

A - Because whats legal and illegal is decided on the server, claiming that hacking is illegal, so why can they do it? is like saying "Openly carrying a weapon is illegal so why can police do it". The answer is usually going to boil down to "because they are government".
B - Only a select few people can actually counter-hack as police, the number is limited already, and you want to limit it more, when there are no actual downsides to police being able to counter-hack?
C - Not everyone who wants to play as FBI can hack, and they will usually fill up the job slots before anyone who can hack will become it. You want to improve the RP value of FBI by limiting who can use the job to people who likely won't use the job, while simultaneously making another job useless.

You want this rule made and the negatives to come of it purely because its unrealistic for police to hack? We're playing on a server with flying magical ponies, magic mushroom people, the flash, hagrid, sewer mutants with swords, lizard people etc. etc. Its not very solid reasoning to me is all. Especially with all the downsides that come of it

 

[hj10wen]

No, just become an FBI agent.


Then people who can should become an FBI agent.


PD members are not allowed to do anything illegal (it's technically FailRP otherwise), so why should they be able to hack (an illegal action)?

The more rules That are put in place the more complicated the server gets

 

[AnthonyFuller]

A - Because whats legal and illegal is decided on the server, claiming that hacking is illegal, so why can they do it? is like saying "Openly carrying a weapon is illegal so why can police do it". The answer is usually going to boil down to "because they are government".

I suppose, but for example, PD (and The Flash, as they cannot do anything illegal) cannot participate in territory wars or warehouse missions (or any org activity for that matter). As they are inheriently (and that's the big point) illegal deeds, same rule should apply for hacking.

B - Only a select few people can actually counter-hack as police, the number is limited already, and you want to limit it more, when there are no actual downsides to police being able to counter-hack?

This point is technically not true, as the people who can hack can just become FBI. Random PD members shouldn't be able to hack, FBI should be able to as they can already do investigations and lockpick doors.

C - Not everyone who wants to play as FBI can hack, and they will usually fill up the job slots before anyone who can hack will become it. You want to improve the RP value of FBI by limiting who can use the job to people who likely won't use the job, while simultaneously making another job useless.

What other job? All the other police jobs have more power than an FBI agent, as they have battering rams instead of lockpicks and a broken hack phone.

What Shrimp said is valid, the hack phone should be fixed alongside this suggestion (there's an open bug tracker ticket). The possibility of FBI getting battering rams should also be considered.

You want this rule made and the negatives to come of it purely because its unrealistic for police to hack? We're playing on a server with flying magical ponies, magic mushroom people, the flash, hagrid, sewer mutants with swords, lizard people etc. etc. Its not very solid reasoning to me is all. Especially with all the downsides that come of it

I haven't mentioned realism at all, I've simply compared it to other jobs who cannot do anything illegal, hacking is illegal in-game, PD raid for it all the time although, most of the time, there's no law against it.

The more rules That are put in place the more complicated the server gets

It's not that complex already, there's a few basic hurdles, but the rest is common sense. There's already a lot of rules under the job restriction section (which is where this suggestion would affect).

 

[hj10wen]

I suppose, but for example, PD (and The Flash, as they cannot do anything illegal) cannot participate in territory wars or warehouse missions (or any org activity for that matter). As they are inheriently (and that's the big point) illegal deeds, same rule should apply for hacking.

This point is technically not true, as the people who can hack can just become FBI. Random PD members shouldn't be able to hack, FBI should be able to as they can already do investigations and lockpick doors.


What other job? All the other police jobs have more power than an FBI agent, as they have battering rams instead of lockpicks and a broken hack phone.

What Shrimp said is valid, the hack phone should be fixed alongside this suggestion (there's an open bug tracker ticket). The possibility of FBI getting battering rams should also be considered.


I haven't mentioned realism at all, I've simply compared it to other jobs who cannot do anything illegal, hacking is illegal in-game, PD raid for it all the time although, most of the time, there's no law against it.


It's not that complex already, there's a few basic hurdles, but the rest is common sense. There's already a lot of rules under the job restriction section (which is where this suggestion would affect).

Not Every FBI wants to counter hack them might like to do other things and this would make pd doing counter hacking RP be locked to one job and some people dont like useing that job we have the flash a lisard man flying ponys nothing on the server is anyware relistic and it just waters down pd even more by locking it to 1 job

 

[Remmy]

I entirely get what you're saying with this suggestion, but not only is it hard to enforce, it's easily solvable by implementing a PD login feature. A police officer hacking he PD or DHCP is agreeably not the greatest RP, however it's the only way to actually perform a counter hack. What we could instead enable is a feature that allows PD to remote connect to these services without requiring bf_password etc, essentially an actual login feature.

Additionally, I think it places an unneeded restriction on PD and hinders RP. How're staff supposed to actually enforce a rule about only FBI being allowed to hack? This isn't an official verdict, I just wanted to offer my perspective on this suggestion.

 

[hj10wen]

I entirely get what you're saying with this suggestion, but not only is it hard to enforce, it's easily solvable by implementing a PD login feature. A police officer hacking he PD or DHCP is agreeably not the greatest RP, however it's the only way to actually perform a counter hack. What we could instead enable is a feature that allows PD to remote connect to these services without requiring bf_password etc, essentially an actual login feature.

Additionally, I think it places an unneeded restriction on PD and hinders RP. How're staff supposed to actually enforce a rule about only FBI being allowed to hack? This isn't an official verdict, I just wanted to offer my perspective on this suggestion.

i agree with this as this would remove the "illegal" part of counter hacking

 

[AnthonyFuller]

I entirely get what you're saying with this suggestion, but not only is it hard to enforce, it's easily solvable by implementing a PD login feature. A police officer hacking he PD or DHCP is agreeably not the greatest RP, however it's the only way to actually perform a counter hack. What we could instead enable is a feature that allows PD to remote connect to these services without requiring bf_password etc, essentially an actual login feature.

Additionally, I think it places an unneeded restriction on PD and hinders RP. How're staff supposed to actually enforce a rule about only FBI being allowed to hack? This isn't an official verdict, I just wanted to offer my perspective on this suggestion.

Sure, a page on the CGPD website only accessible by PD members with logs of the PD server (maybe not DHCP, that seems a bit too powerful in my opinion). Would solve this, and that would be great.

I understand that it would be hard for staff to enforce short of someone else finding out (but isn't that the case with most rules? Someone else has to report the rule breaking).

I also get your point about hindering RP, but like you said yourself, the current system doesn't make sense RP wise.

 

[Chetso]

Yeah I'd say to just make it that police have access to this stuff rather than needing to hack into it.

 

[hj10wen]

The current system works fine is we just need PD to have direct access to PD servers and DHCP
but this dose not mean it should be locked to FBI

 

[AnthonyFuller]

Hacking into the DHCP is also illegal so we would need a way go be able to stop them

What I meant by "maybe not DHCP, that seems a bit too powerful" is having full access to DHCP, having access to the DHCP logs.txt (the same way I said before, using the CGPD website) would be fine in my opinion.

 

[hj10wen]

What I meant by "maybe not DHCP, that seems a bit too powerful" is having full access to DHCP, having access to the DHCP logs.txt (the same way I said before, using the CGPD website) would be fine in my opinion.

like when counter hacking we only use IP Allocation and DHCP logins so we would only need accses but even with this every PD member should be able to use this site

 

[AnthonyFuller]

I think this discussion has gone wildly off-topic of the original suggestion (we're making suggestions regarding the possible changes of a suggestion). I'll just wait for an official ruling now.

 

[Remmy]

Suggestion Denied​

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Hi @AnthonyFuller .

Thanks for taking the time to make a server suggestion.

The Content Team has chosen to deny your suggestion because we feel this is an unnecessary restriction.

Restricting which PD jobs can hack is hard for staff to enforce, and generally isn't necessary for RP on the server. Whilst I can entirely understand that PD hacking PD is a bit unrealistic, there isn't any other way for players to counter hack criminals.

I will be adding a card to the backlog, which will allow PD to remote connect to the PD without having to hack it, however we won't be doing the same for DHCP as this is too much of an advantage.

Your suggestion will now be locked and marked as denied.​