Denied E-11 Cartographer

[appo]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:

- E-11 needs a way to access 22415's dimension to counter CI from rushing & roaming HCZ freely/breaching 008 whenever they'd like

- Helpers:
•refuse to help us, wont help us based on the morals

- Foundation Cartographer:
• people dont play this
• donator exclusive job (heavily restricted)
• asking cartographer to flag on could technically be classed as job abuse
• even if it isnt job abuse, It's highly unrealistic & unreasonable for E-11 to constantly OOC Cartographers to flag on
• cartographers running half across the map is highly unrealistic, they're a non-combative role entering a combat situation which simply doesn't make sense in RP. it will also take way too long for the cartographer to run to HCZ, CI will have passed HCZ by then

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Unsure

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
E-11 have no way to stop CI roaming HCZ freely & breaching 008 whenever they'd like - this suggestion helps this
E-11 will finally have a reliable way to counteract CI entering HCZ freely
E-11 wont need to sit and wait, doing nothing while hostiles use dimension to breach and freely roam HCZ
More Roleplay & Coordination/Teamwork
More money for Ventz, E-11 will buy more often (*if made donator only)

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:
E-11 Abuse - Counter-Argument: E-11 is a whitelisted job, PTs and Strikes, Restrictions like Orange Suit, Restrictions like AA, Restrict to HCZ

'Cartographer Is Research' & 'Its Donator Only':
Give E-11 an alternative solution to deal with no counterplay.
E-11 simply have no way to stop CI just running to any SCP (let alone 008) whenever they'd like.
You could even possibly restrict the E-11 cartographer to Donator just like the rest.

CI players might not be happy
ventz loses money :3 (*if not donator restricted)

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
This gives a suggestion gives a way for E-11 to deal with CI dimension raids on HCZ

 

[Jeffrey Nut]

idk about this for me its +/- support
maybe just ask for 2 slots on cartogropher or smt like that

 

[appo]

-support
- E-11 dosent need cartogrpher, just get on researcher

-support there is a cartogropher job already for foundation. not my fault ppl rarely use it or are lazy to walk 40seconds to hcz.

did you read the post by any chance

idk about this for me its +/- support
maybe just ask for 2 slots on cartogropher or smt like that

2 slots for an already dead job doesn't seem like the solution

 

[Zen]

Neutral
This is honestly not actually needed, as you can just request that all 22415s leave the dimension for long enough for it to collapse (plus, some other accepted changes to how dimension works should help once they are implemented). 22415s have to leave dimension and help if requested to, that's part of their rules, so if they don't, you can just call a sit.

I do, however, like the idea of a new E-11 job that does something fancy like this. Not sure if this is what is needed, though. My main problem is honestly with the MC&D shadow dimension - many CI members can afford to by them multiple times per day due to all their hostage money, and there's actually no way to counter it, unlike the 22415 dimension, so maybe a job/feature that can help counter that?

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

Neutral
This is honestly not actually needed, as you can just request that all 22415s leave the dimension for long enough for it to collapse (plus, some other accepted changes to how dimension works should help once they are implemented). 22415s have to leave dimension and help if requested to, that's part of their rules, so if they don't, you can just call a sit.

I do, however, like the idea of a new E-11 job that does something fancy like this. Not sure if this is what is needed, though. My main problem is honestly with the MC&D shadow dimension - many CI members can afford to by them multiple times per day due to all their hostage money, and there's actually no way to counter it, unlike the 22415 dimension, so maybe a job/feature that can help counter that?

How do you actually contact them IC to ask them to leave the dimension?

 

[Zen]

How do you actually contact them IC to ask them to leave the dimension?

Find them when they're not in there

 

[Gure]

add the cartographer job to XK class

i dont get why its a pack on its own

staff want more money

 

[Michael Dzhetnikov]

gotta love it when they add a bunch of seperate packs equaling ~50 pounds despite half of them not even being worth the purchases on their own

agreed

anywho +/-Neutral
-This is a great idea, and it could result in actual counters to CI in the dimension, and some more E11 RP with the dimension and SCP's.
Only issue is that if it's free that's just unfair. Everyone else had to pay for it, why would E11 be any special? And Ventz still needs his moneys

Either way good suggestion and good idea, just make it paid

 

[Kree]

+Support
I can definitely understand the neutrals on this but I'll leave some input here as the UK E-11 COM
-Working with 22415 is not always possible, there is 0 way for us to communicate with them so having all of E-11 trying to find one just to get TP'd into the dimension is just not viable. There is also a literal server rule where they can't help combative with their duties anyway.
-Same thing applies with Cartographer. Not only is it a job which no-one really plays, it also makes no sense for us to call a non combative down to an area where hostiles are just for them to open 1 portal. Even if it's allowed, it's just not practical.
+This suggestion gives counterplay to dimension raids and E-11 would fulfil the basic roles of Cartographer as we work with RsD quite closely anyway. It could also open up more unique interactions with SCPs.
+Whether the job is part of the donation package or if its free for E-11 is up to staff, the suggestion was made with that in mind

 

[Niox]

gotta love it when they add a bunch of seperate packs equaling ~50 pounds despite half of them not even being worth the purchases on their own

i agree that its stupid, but having a paid feature be free for another group is stupid

 

[Joris Kilotoviz/London]

Id +Support if it was E11 having their own Cartography role as the R&D Cartographer is non combative

 

[Pupper]

add the cartographer job to XK class

i dont get why its a pack on its own

cuz they make more money by adding a seperate package

 

[Alexandru Levkin]

+/- Support
+Support Because it could help to prevent a HCZ raid
-Most dimension raids take place through the front gate (If shadow dimension) if just normal dimension they'll go vents and by the time either of those happen it'll get called out before they even have time to get into HCZ so it just makes it pointless to add

 

[Aurelius "Fusilli"]

-Most dimension raids take place through the front gate (If shadow dimension) if just normal dimension they'll go vents and by the time either of those happen it'll get called out before they even have time to get into HCZ so it just makes it pointless to add

Yesterday, CI had gotten all the way to 682 from Main Gate without any resistance at all from combative personnel, only thing that was called out was that some doors were opening on F2. Combat in the dimension will finally happen instead of CI being able to go all the way to the SCPs they want to hack out.

 

[elad]

Personally I'd prefer an existing e11 job to have a type of barrier that prevents people in dimension from passing it. like the ert one that stops scps-

Interdimensional Barrier: 1 per life and only lasts like 180 seconds.
That way e11 would have to still be tactical with their deployment and not just have them blocking hcz constantly- but would also be long enough to force ci out of dimension or allow for a call out to be made/ support to arrive, forcing ci to divert their route

 

[Evil]

if they are going in for combat as the rules iirc state they cant let people in to kill in the dimension

have you ever consider just lying to the creature

 

[appo]

have you ever consider just lying to the creature

they're not stupid

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

-support you have 3 SCPs which have total control over the dimension and can notify you

 

[Jack Frost]

Neutral.
I've played cartographer a fair bit and not once have I ever been asked to open a portal during codes so I feel like this is partially E11 not wanting to rely on someone else and partially people playing cartographer not doing their role. Also the scps can barely do anything anymore with how many restrictions have been placed on them and aint allowed to assist in raids anyway so don't blame the scps blame the rules.

 

[Sylveon]

Can't you work with the 22415s to be in the dimension?

Unfortunately no, It was ruled that Combative can't be put into the dimension period, not to combat CI or anything.

Specifically this rule here.

• "May not assist combative personnel in their duties, unless assisting them in safe movement through the facility. This means they cannot be asked to assist in moving combatives to a better combat vantage point, they cannot assist combatives in entering containment chambers, and they cannot assist in raids."

I disagree with 22415's not being able to help with combative, as ultimately they are aligned with the foundation, and CI actively go against the foundations goals and morals.

This Means, Foundation lack palpable response to CI raiding through dimensions such as 22415, and ultimately killed the three SCP's since you couldn't help with anything combative without being at risk of getting your whitelist removed or a warn. Which sucked, as I liked the concept, but due to excessive rulings on their usage, it lobotomized the content.

Meaning the Job itself is usally left opened and see little use, heck CI have hardly utilized it recently.

 

[appo]

-support you have 3 SCPs which have total control over the dimension and can notify you

u silly goober they cant put u in the dimension to fight CI cuz it against the rules