Feedback Thread: Maximum amount of armor obtainable Change.

[Holland]

With the recent change to the maximum amount of armor you can obtain on certain jobs.​

We would like to get community feedback regarding the changes.​

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Changelog​

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Feel free to post your opinion.​

The trial will be for 2 weeks​

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Our intentions​

This change has been done to encourage non-combatives to stay further away from combat, however still allows certain jobs to have the ability to resist a couple more bullets if they choose to obtain the extra bit of armor from an armory.​

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Be nice and respectfull​

Content team​

 

[Advil Smith]

I understand the limit on non combatives but why was making ISD have less armor apart of that? I mean I get ISD shouldn’t be the group of people in every combat situation but they still have a separate duty which is usually protecting noncombatives during codes.

 

[Holland]

I understand the limit on non combatives but why was making ISD have less armor apart of that? I mean I get ISD shouldn’t be the group of people in every combat situation but they still have a separate duty which is usually protecting noncombatives during codes.

And you are still able to.

The Content team has been encouraging ISD to shift towards a more roleplay-focused department rather than being solely combat-oriented.

During C1, many players tend to rush towards the CI, GOC, or intruders. This is not the direction we want ISD to take.

In the past, ISD was not perceived as a fully combative unit; instead, it was classified as semi-combative. This meant that while conducting arrests, you could use combative actions, but you were not allowed to actively seek out CI to engage them in combat.

This classification was changed due to frequent rule breaks and the loopholes that players were exploiting.

We hope that small adjustments like these, without strict rule enforcement, can help guide ISD in a new direction.

Remember, you are part of security, but you are not GSD or MTF, and you do not have access to heavy military gear.

 

[Zen]

I like most of it, but the ISD changes make no sense. Even disregarding secondary duties they may pick up, how do you expect them to be able to arrest MTF members, GSD, etc. when you give them no armour to protect themselves against potentially hostile armed forces who have full armour, better weapons and the element of surprise in most circumstances? Anything that involves arresting combatives or even just responding to 914 usage (which may or may not be either CI or a tech expert) just becomes notably more difficult and simply doesn't make any sense.

 

[Adagio]

And you are still able to.

The Content team has been encouraging ISD to shift towards a more roleplay-focused department rather than being solely combat-oriented.

During C1, many players tend to rush towards the CI, GOC, or intruders. This is not the direction we want ISD to take.

In the past, ISD was not perceived as a fully combative unit; instead, it was classified as semi-combative. This meant that while conducting arrests, you could use combative actions, but you were not allowed to actively seek out CI to engage them in combat.

This classification was changed due to frequent rule breaks and the loopholes that players were exploiting.

We hope that small adjustments like these, without strict rule enforcement, can help guide ISD in a new direction.

Remember, you are part of security, but you are not GSD or MTF, and you do not have access to heavy military gear.

ISD is moving more roleplay focused through the Director of ISD's new policies that they have been adding enforcing. We have a new code system that designates what we are supposed to do during situations and we are protocol wise not supposed to just hunt down CI or GOC. We actively are meant to protect non-combatives and enforce the FLC unless things are bad like low staffing, code 5 in LCZ, code 2, or Code Black/AA Level 3 is authed. Those are the times in which we would work more combatively to help secure the issue and secure LCZ for the non-combatives. The issue with the reduction in armor is that it reduces our ability to assist in Code 2s or Code 5s in LCZ. If we lose the ability to protect non-combatives effectively or assist in low staffing situations to help out where needed during situations like Code 5s, it makes us just FLC enforcers.

We got nerfed by having our guns display while we are disguised meaning we can no longer have weapons while disguised as tech experts or other non-combatives (I have already been kidnapped by a researcher and tech experts because of this while trying to make arrests since I had a non-combative disguise and had to store my weapons). This is another nerf which lowers our effectiveness even further for our job. To me, this feels like a push to make us non-combative and to have us sit back rather than a support for who needs it that also enforces the FLC.

I just tried helping in D-Block. The lack of full armor during the active Code 2/5 combo made it near impossible for me to assist since it was understaffed, GSD were just sitting talking, and ISD had lower armor which caused us to have to consistently retreat for more armor after getting shot like 2 times by a D-Class with an assault rifle.

Additionally, how am I supposed to arrest MTF units if they act up knowing full well, they have a MASSIVE combat advantage having full armor while mine is lower. If I had to store my guns to disguise as non-combative, I can't enforce anything if any of them point a gun at me and tell me to drop my bodycam, cuff me, etc. Even if I have guns, I need to basically fight someone who is full power while having far less damage reduction than him. If anything, this makes me need to push more combative exercises on my guys so we have better headshot consistency to defend ourselves if the need arises especially with CI or GOC raids in the areas we are in such as patrolling Delta or helping in D-Block due to low staffing (one of our side jobs).

Overall, this change to ISD armor makes us have heavily reduced combative ability for protecting ourselves, non-combatives, and assisting around site due to low staffing. We are police primarily but secondarily we are a support job to assist where needed to prevent the deaths of non-combatives. The armory helps with storing guns but we still are relatively screwed in defending ourselves and others on all fronts now whether we have combative disguises or not. 25-50 armor may not seem like a lot but the damage reduction it gives is HUGE and makes our job far less effective if we lost that much. I can live without an armory (not saying I don't love having it since it makes me not have to run to SS to keep storing my default guns while I disguise and giving me more time to get a disguise instead of running to try and get armor then a disguise) but that lack of armor severely harms the effectiveness of my job. The change makes no sense for our gameplay loop and hurts it rather than helps it in any way.

(Reference ISD Agent Handbook section 1.1 and 1.2 for our duties)

 

[pinhead]

how do you expect them to be able to arrest MTF members, GSD, etc. when you give them no armour to protect themselves against potentially hostile armed forces who have full armour, better weapons and the element of surprise in most circumstances?

Do most people you guys arrest shoot at you lmao? Or are you saying you have to shoot at CI/d class nearly every time you arrest someone?

The issue with the reduction in armor is that it reduces our ability to assist in Code 2s or Code 5s in LCZ.

Okay, ISD shouldn't be the d-block guards or the SCP-destroyers. I don't see why this is an issue.

We got nerfed by having our guns display while we are disguised meaning we can no longer have weapons while disguised as tech experts or other non-combatives

I do agree that there should be a compromise somewhere with ISD - I feel like their pistols shouldn't show while disguised. That at least gives you something to fearrp with while still shifting away from combat.

Additionally, how am I supposed to arrest MTF units if they act up knowing full well, they have a MASSIVE combat advantage having full armor while mine is lower. If I had to store my guns to disguise as non-combative, I can't enforce anything if any of them point a gun at me and tell me to drop my bodycam, cuff me, etc.

WTF are we feeding these MTF? I play ISD from time to time and I have never had anyone but clear NITRP minges resist arrest to that degree. People shouldn't be fuckin' blasting when faced with a misdemeanor, unless you deal with murder charges all day? Honestly probable now that I think of it...

I'd try having two (2) agents arrest someone for murder so that they can be fear-roleplayed. Also, don't you guys get tranq darts? That's a pretty big combat advantage lmao.

We are police primarily but secondarily we are a support job to assist where needed to prevent the deaths of non-combatives.

I see where you're coming from but I can't help but feel like you're stretching to make your points here. I don't see how the armor difference makes you ineffective as support jobs - less effective, yes, but not every single combative on site needs to be the doom slayer. If you want to shoot green people, orange people or the monsters, there are other jobs that are better, and SHOULD be clearly better, because every group has a specialty. Keeping ISD at full armor is just like having a parade of gensec with disguise cards prance around site waiting for trouble, it's simply not fair for the hostile groups.

 

[Glazzing]

as ci main i like it cuz foundation isd combatives weaker