Denied Give 860-2 Breach Behaviour

This suggestion has been denied and will not receive development.
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Emilia Foddg

Emilia Foddg

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What does this suggestion change/add/remove:​

Makes 860-2 a breaching SCP that, in addition to what it currently is and does, has behaviour similar to other breaching SCPs, (even in the same area: 173, 457, 912 - All three are SCPs in LCZ that breach (...technically 427 as well, but that's purely player-initiated)), via containment box hacking or the auto-breach queue.

There would need to be decisions made about whether 860-2 is a non-terminable or terminable SCP (Terminable being contextualised in RP as something like "What 860-2 is, is just one instance of an animal species native to the 860 dimension, so there's basically an infinite number of them in the 860 dimension") and how much health it would have (...I'm honestly not sure which to pick. I'm leaning terminable).

As for justifying this breach behaviour in RP with 860's lore and such... You could have a series of GM-led events accompanying this change, basically boiling down to some reasoning like "the 860 dimension itself wanting to be interacted with" and because it is not interacted with that often by RsD, it "gets agitated(?)" and "it influences the forest's guardian (860-2) to exit the dimension into baseline reality for the express purpose of drawing attention to it." Or something along those lines. And it would be treated as "860-2 wasn't something that does this before, but is now. Why does it do this?" kind of situation.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:​

It's not possible to search the forum for 860-specific posts, because three-character length words are too short. What searches I was able to do turned up no similar results. It's additionally possible that this was something suggested back when suggestions were Discord-based.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):​

  • More use of and spotlight on, 860 - A largely underutilised SCP that really only gets sampled because it has useful NVG chems. It could stand to be a lot more interesting and not just among the things that take up space, both on the map and in filesize.

  • Another breach option for players that want to breach as SCPs & players that want to hack out SCPs, using something already present in-game and practically almost complete - Although this may need adjustments to level requirements for 860 and such, unsure. I appreciate that not every SCP there is, nor every player SCP needs to also breach, but I think there is wasted potential in not allowing 860 to breach.

  • Would potentially encourage more RP with 860 & RsD activity - ...Strange, right? Adding something to the pool of 'what can breach' would in turn encourage an RP interaction. My point here is generating interest in 860. We do already have plans to accomplish 912 being able to speak via RP events; So why not do more? Have RP events that accompany 860's sudden ability to breach. Encourage use.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:​

  • Underutilisation - Imagine, you add breaching behaviour to 860 and as a result... People still just don't play 860 that much anyway. Even worse, it may take activity away from other underplayed SCPs. Or it just doesn't have the intended effect, which is also a possibility.

  • Dev time - Working out balance, etc. As I said above.

  • Lore inaccuracy - As much as I think I've reasonably justified everything I've stated here, there is still the issue that this would be out of the bounds of what is "canon" of 860; However, I believe this in particular is minor and falls within the bounds of creative freedom. Again, I believe that I've reasonably justified all of this. This is not too far-fetched, in my opinion.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:​

This is mostly just a testbed. I put no stock in this suggestion - I am testing the waters to gauge the viability the idea of a future suggestion I'm planning, on giving 914 breach behaviour. No, that was not a typo. I do mean 914. I will make "914 flag on" real. Yes, I'm serious, yes I can justify it and yes I can contextualise it all within the bounds of RP. I have had plans for months and I intend on covering it comprehensively. And yes, Auburn, it will unfortunately probably be long, as much as I try to trim my final plans & ideas down - The final draft will likely unavoidably by lengthy. It's part of why I'm putting that suggestion off. I will not be taking any further questions (...Although admittedly, if this gets accepted, that does actually hurt my efforts because then I would be trying to make a fifth (sixth if you count 427 (seventh if you count 3078 for whatever reason??)) LCZ SCP breachable - It would be less justified).

Back to 860, the topic of this suggestion - As with most things, I obviously don't expect this to be implemented overnight. Even though I said a lot of the things necessary here are already present, this would be low priority. Especially considering that the current development focus, to my observation, seems to be encouraging more RP in the server and this...

Actually, as I write, I think this suggestion might help with that. Think about this for a moment:

What are the knock-on effects of adding an SCP that would ultimately be easy to deal with (But obviously, not so easy that people don't breach as it)?

If more easy-to-deal-with breaches happen, they get resolved sooner. People can get back to RP sooner. You'd effectively be diluting your breaches. I can't really put what I'm thinking here into as good words as I'd like, so I'm just going to have to hope that this gets across, but... Yeah.

Whatever. Anyway, funny 860 suggestion, let's see what happens.
 
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Yog

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It's either this, or removing 860 from the server entirely and replacing it with something more interesting, and it could potentially give new players a new breachable SCP to RP with without immediately getting steamrolled by MTF.
 
Auburn

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Suggestion Up For Further Discussion​

Hi @Emilia Foddg,

Thanks for taking the time to make a server suggestion.
The Content Team has chosen to put your suggestion up for internal discussion.

We in the team agreed that SCP-860-2 is in a very poor place as it stands, going unused and underappreciated. We would like to look into ways of improving the SCP, but there were talks a while back about its possible removal. We have created a discord discussion to speak with NL and figure out if that plan is still on the table, as well as to brainstorm ways the SCP could be improved.

Your suggestion will be tagged with the pending review flair and left up for players to continue to respond.​
 
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Emilia Foddg

Emilia Foddg

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Auburn said:
We would like to look into ways of improving the SCP, but there were talks a while back about its possible removal.
Click to expand...
that's unfortunate, but it makes sense for several reasons -

it's in a very weird place on the map overall (for anyone that doesn't know and has never been able to look at it from noclip, 860's CC is like, directly above the lecture hall and behind gensec offices), so it makes sense from a interruption/confusion/metagaming kind of standpoint in terms of where things overlap, sounds etc., and where people are (say if someone's holding a lecture/meeting) and 860 breaches, they're going to hear this instantly (that it's specifically 860, obviously i'm aware that most breaches are heard instantly - would also potentially ruin stuff like with 079's silent hack; for example, if 079 hacks out 860 and it's heard, people can instantly infer that not only is 860 breached, 079 potentially also is too - now standard E-11 procedure is to always check silents, but i think this would discourage 079 from hacking out 860 anyway). but i get that this kind of thing also helps immensely with like efficiency... map filesize? etc. there's also the fact that if you think about it from a layout perspective... it kind of feels off to the side, like it's tacked on in LLCZ (or """""delta wing""""" (yuck), if any US players are reading this).

i imagine there might be something with the 860 dimension itself? not sure. but it stands to reason that removing it would also free space for something else (if anyone doesn't know, there is a finite amount of space that the mapping devs can work with - you can't just keep adding to the map and fill up the entirety of the allowed dimensions within the .bsp)

then there's also things like the model and how it looks may not be up to the desired standard? iirc the current model is ripped directly from CB; and in CB, you're not meant to see 860-2 for long before you die. plus CB is blizz3d and funny blizz3d quirks (fuck making or doing anything in blizz3d, i don't know how that dev was sane. maybe they weren't. then again, this was well over 10 years ago) - but my point is that even though it's authentic, it get that it doesn't translate well to this setting. there is the matter of cheddar re-applying for art dev and i would very much love to see their take on 860, but we obviously can't assume their app will be accepted, nor should this be a priority for art dev (also fuck rigging and animating any kind of non-humanoid model, that's pain - but again, there's potentially things you could reuse from say, 682 for that, which might be sufficient to do it quick and dirty).

finally, there's actually interacting with 860 for RP/test purposes. it... is admittedly kinda goofy to, say, for sampling - having research teams actually physically go into 860 to try and get the chems, as that is the only way they can do it (and likely intended, as 860 is sampleable in the first place), it potentially encourages the wrong things in RP (i.e. researchers putting themselves in harms way)

Auburn said:
We have created a discord discussion to speak with NL and figure out if that plan is still on the table, as well as to brainstorm ways the SCP could be improved.
Click to expand...
so as i said above, i agree there is sufficient and valid reasoning to remove 860-2 if that is still a consideration; but if removing it isn't that much of a priority/concern, i would ask that NL consider making a small poll in the change voting channel to determine if the community at large would either be okay with 860's removal or if they would like to see it changed to have more purpose in the server - i know there was some recent interaction, i remember a recent 860/096 crosstest that was fun and interesting, seeing if 096 could navigate the dimension to get out and to a target, good RP - plus 860 has a nice chem with decent usability, there have been recent initiatives around it, for example, OSAs had to get some 860 samples for A-1 to potentially use during blackouts - although it stands to reason that this could be moved to another SCP that doesn't presently have a sample chem; although it would need to make sense for the current stats of the chem. like for example, i don't think it would be appropriate to move its' effects to any HCZ SCP such as 8837, or any other difficult-to-sample SCP without considerable buffs to incentivise people going to get it, especially when this specifically has to compete with NVGs

and although it doesn't seem it from lack of usage, my understanding is that 860 is well-liked by the community and its loss would not be without complaint.

i personally, am a fan of constructive changes over destructive ones, so if it's at all reasonable to consider improving 860 over removing it, i would most certainly be in favour of that. but if staff ultimately decide that 860 should be removed, i fully understand why.
 
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Emilia Foddg

Emilia Foddg

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Ace 63 said:
I’m illiterate so I dunno if someone’s already said this but if your saying that a breach with 860 would be to lure them to his dimension he could have a power to move people like 012 to him and he gathers them to his demension! ?
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that's kind of interesting - but the idea i state is that 860-2 goes out, just basically like other breaching SCPs, the containment blocker lifts

basically
Emilia Foddg said:
As for justifying this breach behaviour in RP with 860's lore and such... You could have a series of GM-led events accompanying this change, basically boiling down to some reasoning like "the 860 dimension itself wanting to be interacted with" and because it is not interacted with that often by RsD, it "gets agitated(?)" and "it influences the forest's guardian (860-2) to exit the dimension into baseline reality for the express purpose of drawing attention to it." Or something along those lines. And it would be treated as "860-2 wasn't something that does this before, but is now. Why does it do this?" kind of situation.
Click to expand...
if that makes sense
 
wojtekpolska

wojtekpolska

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860-2 is a very nice scp, i like when any event interracts with him, but you never see him as he doesnt breach. i think he would be pretty balanced, taking a spot of basically a weaker 939, but who can see and spawns in lcz
 
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