Rule Suggestion Make Faction Siege Raids FailRP

[Mars]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Makes Siege Raiding in area's that do not benefit CI or some form of roleplay FailRP.

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
Probably not

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):
Stops GOI's from entirely pausing roleplay for up to 45 minutes (which just happened today where they held Floor 2 for 45 minutes with a TB that had a sanctum pixel peaking).

Forces GOI's to actually go along with a raid that benefits their faction instead of backtracking to a siege raid the second something goes in the foundations favor.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

Harder to get kidnaps than when CI siege raid

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:

Siege raiding has to be the most unfun thing you have to deal with on the server, waiting for countless minutes as a non-combative has to be some of the most tedious things to do and I feel extremely bad for roleplay heavy whitelists like Research and Medical who have to deal with this from day-to-day.

Siege raiding on Floor 2 serves no purpose on the foundation and is just senseless killing leads to no goal at all and ruins server health for the entire time the raid is active.

And no this doesn't mean that siege raiding critical area's like the reactor room and floor 3 for example would be disallowed as these area's actually have a redeeming factors for CI like turning off reactors etc.

The rule that would make the most sense to impose would be a rule that says that "Factions cannot raid without a goal in mind, holding area's like floor 2 which leads to no victory on each sides (Ex: Breaching SCP's, kidnapping etc) where there is just senseless killing is FailRP."

To combat people from camouflaging their goal of a siege raid by saying "it's for keycards / kidnaps" would be to impose a certain amount of time that CI are allowed to hold area's like Floor 2 which serve no purpose to hold so that they actually have to have a goal of kidnapping, because most of the time them kidnapping someone during a Siege Raid is a convenience not a goal.

TLDR:

Raiding with no goal A.K.A Siege Raiding non-critical areas should be FailRP

 

[Mars]

I dont have a clue what its like on the US, but on the UK Siege Raids work, really fucking well.

The suggestion is based on the fact that siege raids work well but the fact of how boring they are to deal with and the fact that it ruins rp for the majority of the server.

You're a fucking A-1
The group that works by THEMSELVES, and kidnaps people on site for the most minor shit, for your own entertainment. Please, shut up.

This seems like personal soy, I dont know what problem you have with A-1 but I think you need to calm down.

Dumb policy. It was made IC, and if a C1 is active due to CI being in EZ and RSD can't test in LCZ/HCZ due to the code 1, maybe you should get that updated. (This is US specific btw)

This isnt stupid, HCZ being on high alert / being closed during a CI raid is completely understandable.

You also seem to completely ignore my claim that a CI Siege raid getting kidnaps and keycards is more of a convenience than a goal, also no, I do not think DEA or Nu7 will ever give money and keycards to CI to leave our base, that is idiotic.

I have absolutely no clue how people on UK can believe that a siege raid is beneficial to server health as it brings no positive roleplay to the server at all. (and yes SCP breaches is positive roleplay)

Also I want to re-iterate, just because you have a personal bias against A-1 doesn't mean that it makes my suggestion any less valid, if you are gonna make claims that are total hearsay against my suggestion to try to make your point more valid due to us "kidnapping people for no reason" (which we just dont do) then you can bring that sort of energy into a personal report instead of a biased forum response.

 

[pinhead]

you put away the fact that nobody other than CI enjoy this.

I actually directly said this in my reply, I acknowledged that siege raids are boring.

45 minutes of "fun" sitting on floor 2 doing nothing, and contributing to nothing.

getting kidnaps and keycards = nothing now?

Arguing that we don't use NHU to combat this completely puts away the fact that when the NHU effects wear out, there is a high probability that the person or people on NHU will die to the 10s of CI on Floor 2

you can go to surface and hold them at a pinch at the garage elevators

It's obvious that you wouldn't like this rule as it pertains to your regiment but if you look outside of your Chaos Insurgent bias you can see that siege raids leads to absolutely no roleplay for the server (no kidnap RP is not fun) and is just mindless killing.

It's been my goal to make sure that whatever CI does can derive entertainment to the opposing faction, unfortunately there are elements of the gameplay loop in this server that may involve a frustrating 30 or so minutes where it seems you can't win. But I would actually make the argument that a siege raid done right is certainly more RP conducive than a mass breach or D-Block weaponization, as we can make /oc demands to get d class and money in order to leave.

Alas, foundation does not RP with CI, even during hostage situations or when threatening to destroy the health of the site - so CI may continue to play the game as the founding fathers intended, bringing death and destruction to floor 2, because it directly benefits us and we are left with no choice - you won't negotiate anyways

P.S - I agree that 45 minutes of siege is really stupid and I've addressed the people involved in yesterday's debacle. They should not go on longer than 15 or 20 minutes unless we are negotiating.

 

[Mars]

getting kidnaps and keycards = nothing now?

saying you need 15 - 45 minutes of sieging on Floor 2 to get keycards and kidnaps is just an absolute lie, at most it would take you 10 minutes of senseless killing to get all the CI in your raid a keycard of their own. I'd be alright with the fact that you should be able to Siege Raid to exfiltrate something or someone like a kidnapped O5 member and a siege team is making sure that the team with the O5 member isn't followed. That'd be alright, but to backtrack straight back to F2 after you have the smallest amount of retaliation from EZ makes no sense, especially when they sit there for 20+ minutes.

The biggest question here isn't specifically the fact you can get keycards and kidnaps during a siege raid, it's the circumstances that the siege raids happen from. If you host a raid specifically to halt the movement from EZ to Surface as a siege raid FROM THE START OF THE RAID, then it would be understandable, but if the goal of your raid instantly changes from maybe a mass breach or a dblock raid to a siege raid the second you have some form of retaliation then it becomes a problem where CI are just trying to waste time. Not everyone has 30 to 45 minutes to waste on something that wont influence their roleplay activity like an SCP breach for example.

(also im pretty sure siege raids need mcom+ approval in CI, the one that happened yesterday was hosted by a BCOM)

 

[Aura_]

Ngl. Ive been part of and on the receiving end of Siege raids and can attest to how incredibly boring it is.

If anything, it should highlight the need for EZ to be reworked at least so that there isn't a single way up where both factions are staring at the FL2 elevator. It's honestly funny that there is arguing to keep the least interactive kind of raid there is. It's important for CI to acquire cards for raids, sure; It is probably not healthy when you're playing stare at the elevator for 20m+ until one side decides to oonga boonga pack in the elevator and (try) rush out

 

[Niox]

The suggestion is based on the fact that siege raids work well but the fact of how boring they are to deal with and the fact that it ruins rp for the majority of the server.

then why are you saying that CI gain nothing from them

This seems like personal soy, I dont know what problem you have with A-1 but I think you need to calm down.

i think you're being a hypocrite to say that "No one has fun but CI", but its fine when "No one has fun but A1"
its still a good point might i add - i just think its stupid that an A1 out of all people is calling CI out about it

This isnt stupid, HCZ being on high alert / being closed during a CI raid is completely understandable.

then suck it up if its a IC issue. CI shouldnt have to base itself around your IC policies

You also seem to completely ignore my claim that a CI Siege raid getting kidnaps and keycards is more of a convenience than a goal, also no, I do not think DEA or Nu7 will ever give money and keycards to CI to leave our base, that is idiotic.

>CI do a Siege raid to get Keycards
>CI hold EZ (The place that SOP need to go) for keycards

SOP can either wait 18 hours, or give CI keycards. CI will get the keycards either way, it just quickens the process.
Also you not wanting SOP to actually negotiate to get them out of EZ shows that you have 0 intent on actually dealing with the problem face on - you just don't like losing.

I have absolutely no clue how people on UK can believe that a siege raid is beneficial to server health as it brings no positive roleplay to the server at all. (and yes SCP breaches is positive roleplay)

it isnt. its stupid, but it works.

Also I want to re-iterate, just because you have a personal bias against A-1 doesn't mean that it makes my suggestion any less valid

never said it didnt

if you are gonna make claims that are total hearsay against my suggestion to try to make your point more valid due to us "kidnapping people for no reason" (which we just dont do) then you can bring that sort of energy into a personal report instead of a biased forum response.

talk about soy huh

 

[Glazzing]

then why are you saying that CI gain nothing from them


i think you're being a hypocrite to say that "No one has fun but CI", but its fine when "No one has fun but A1"
its still a good point might i add - i just think its stupid that an A1 out of all people is calling CI out about it


then suck it up if its a IC issue. CI shouldnt have to base itself around your IC policies


>CI do a Siege raid to get Keycards
>CI hold EZ (The place that SOP need to go) for keycards

SOP can either wait 18 hours, or give CI keycards. CI will get the keycards either way, it just quickens the process.
Also you not wanting SOP to actually negotiate to get them out of EZ shows that you have 0 intent on actually dealing with the problem face on - you just don't like losing.


it isnt. its stupid, but it works.


never said it didnt


talk about soy huh

ok but the raid that happens around once every couple of days is a minor inconvenience to him!!! make it failrp NOW!!!!!

 

[FrostByte]

+ Support

Do something fun, like breach 008

 

[John "Kratos" Freeman]

+ support
- i would be fine with holding F2 would be not allowed because that is boring and nobody likes it other than DELCOM+ that are shit at there job and dont know how to get shit done.

(also this is kind of a rage suggestion. most of the time you can just leave the area with 3-4 people and do other things when waiting for CI to push. Just never push and CI will either push you or CI will just leave.)

 

[Mars]

I dont like it saying that you cant hold a place that would not make sense for CI to hold. I like doing "FOB raids" where i hold a place like 860, 173, or train in d block. Not a lot of people get mad at this because i cant exfil most of the time and its just for dumb and fun stuff that most CI wont do.

I specifically addressed this in the suggestion.

And no this doesn't mean that siege raiding critical area's like the reactor room and floor 3 for example would be disallowed as these area's actually have a redeeming factors for CI like turning off reactors etc.

 

[John "Kratos" Freeman]

I specifically addressed this in the suggestion.

sorry about that. i skim read it and didnt see that part.

 

[Alpa]

siege raids are some of the most boring shit but at the same time making rules to directly inhibit things you can do as a player is also awful and should only be done as a last resort, there's workarounds that arent "make it failrp"

-support

 

[The Guardian]

siege raids are some of the most boring shit but at the same time making rules to directly inhibit things you can do as a player is also awful and should only be done as a last resort, there's workarounds that arent "make it failrp"

-support

Honestly yeah, fairest take in this thread.

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

TLDR: Kidnap RP isn't fun RP, no Siege raids do not benefit CI for the most part, and nobody on the server that isn't CI enjoys combatting a siege raid, a siege raid is practically just killing your own men on purpose for a few keycards (from an in character standpoint)

nice job on the A1 CSG telling CI what is and isn't beneficial to CI lol
this really seems like a rage suggestion - even if your rule was implemented it would be so incredibly easy to get around by making an objective up on the spot, all this would add is another hoop CI needs to jump through before doing a raid
siege raids aren't even fun, play some CI and you'd realise this
also isn't it interesting 90% of the +supports are coming from COs of most MTF groups/SC and nobody else, strange that
-support

 

[Mars]

nice job on the A1 CSG telling CI what is and isn't beneficial to CI lol

the being "beneficial" part is very questionable and is also just like 20% of the entire suggestion, the main points is that it is incredibly boring to deal with as well as it taking up way to much roleplay for something that barely benefits them and wastes an incredible amount of time for non-combative jobs especially (idk how the A-1 thing is relevant)

this really seems like a rage suggestion

Calling something a "rage suggestion" is a re-occurring theme I see on multiple suggestions that often go against a certain faction or roles interest, just because people believe that something isn't benefitting the server, doesn't make it a "rage suggestion

even if your rule was implemented it would be so incredibly easy to get around by making an objective up on the spot, all this would add is another hoop CI needs to jump through before doing a raid

So the rule is bad because people can break the rule? Your argument makes no sense, if they put in a rule that specifically says "hey, you cant specifically raid the foundation IF all you are gonna do is sit on Floor 2 and die", if they do this <- you take clip and make sit. It is a pretty straight forward statement.

siege raids aren't even fun, play some CI and you'd realise this

wow its like that's the entire reason I made the suggestion..

also isn't it interesting 90% of the +supports are coming from COs of most MTF groups/SC and nobody else, strange that

maybe just maybe it is because the MTF Groups are the ones who have to play peakaboo with CI sitting in EZ for 30 minutes doing nothing..

 

[Bill Nye The Guy]

the being "beneficial" part is very questionable and is also just like 20% of the entire suggestion, the main points is that it is incredibly boring to deal with as well as it taking up way to much roleplay for something that barely benefits them and wastes an incredible amount of time for non-combative jobs especially (idk how the A-1 thing is relevant)

doesn't change what i've said?

Calling something a "rage suggestion" is a re-occurring theme I see on multiple suggestions that often go against a certain faction or roles interest, just because people believe that something isn't benefitting the server, doesn't make it a "rage suggestion

that's just how i see this suggestion tbh

So the rule is bad because people can break the rule? Your argument makes no sense, if they put in a rule that specifically says "hey, you cant specifically raid the foundation IF all you are gonna do is sit on Floor 2 and die", if they do this <- you take clip and make sit. It is a pretty straight forward statement.

the problem is it's so incredibly difficult to prove this (and so easy for somebody to think that a raid is one) that it'll waste staff time and hold up raids, imagine:
CI wants to raid LCZ for a certain SCP, for one reason or another they get stuck in CS
CI must now hold out in CS or else they die, they end up stuck and unable to leave
Some bum exec and O1 report CI for 'siege raiding', not knowing a single thing about what has happened
The entire raid is held up due to an admin sit for 10 minutes
CI explain themselves and everything goes back to normal

do you see how incredibly subjective this rule is and how easy it can be for misunderstandings to happen, wasting everybody's time?

also, have you heard of a good defence by MTF? whenever CI is "stuck in floor 2" it's either MTF doing their job really well (repelling CI from entering their site) or farming cards to do a more interesting raid later down the line - what is the problem in this? if you want to play as MTF then you should expect PVP quite often??? maybe try an offensive and actually push CI to end the raid rather than being too scared to go up an elevator (YOU HAVE INFINITE RESPAWNS BTW, UNLIKE CI)

did you forget about keycard raids when saying this or something?
do you seriously think CI will group up and collectively say "we shall camp and sit in floor 2 and die" for no reason other than to annoy F?
every raid needs to have an objective and camping floor 2 is possibly the most boring raid idea imaginable

wow its like that's the entire reason I made the suggestion..

are you intentionally missing the point of what i said? there is no good reason for CI to do a siege raid, whatever some random PVT sees as a 'siege raid' is most likely a misunderstanding since they don't actually know what CI is trying to do (see what i previously said)

maybe just maybe it is because the MTF Groups are the ones who have to play peakaboo with CI sitting in EZ for 30 minutes doing nothing..

MTF when they have to do their job (defend the site) and do it well

 

[grunger]

ci/nu7: hold floor 2 elevator, combating gois is a majority of their role
research: testing is allowed if ci arent in or around hcz given that it isnt restricted by an e11 co
e11: secure checkpoints and resume testing
o1/a1: protective duties or hold floor 2 elevator if ordered
gensec: hold floor 2 elevator or d-block
site command/admin/assistants/ia/medical/technical: normal duties

so much disruption...

 

[Mozzie]

+/- support
I agree that siege raids are boring but making it aganist the rules is not the best solution. Non MCOM CI still do siege raids and they need to be held accountable first.

Also I think its hilarious how many people agree that siege raids are boring (CI COM US included) but -support the suggestion trying to change it

 

[Ogre]

-support
not needed, if dea or nu went outside more maybe.

 

[Blackknight95]

Suggestion Denied

Hello,

Our superadmin team has decided that this is not necessary to change at this time, as it does not disrupt gameplay for the majority of groups on the server.​