Content Suggestion Make Nu-7 Enlisteds CL2

[Zen]

What does this suggestion change/add/remove:
Using the new rank clearance system, make Nu-7 Enlisteds (PVT-LCPL) CL2 instead of CL3. SOP/Nu-7 areas such as their offices or compound should be similarly reduced, or access overrides given as appropriate (e.g. make SOP outer doors and Nu-7 barracks CL2, but keep DEA areas CL3).

Has something similar been suggested before? If so, why is your suggestion different?:
No.

Possible Positives of the suggestion (At least 2):

• Restricts clearance levels in a way that makes more sense
  • Nu-7 primarily deals with conventional weaponry and its use on surface. They don't need to know more SCP stuff in depth, like all the CL3 SCPs and whatever, and they don't need access to all of the SCP chambers, offices, etc. behind this clearance level. Whenever they do need to know, or have access to these areas, they'd likely be involved in things led by their superiors or other departments anyway, so they can just be told or granted access by these people. If SRU doesn't need to know or access CL3 stuff, neither do Nu-7 Enlisted, when they should be as far from the SCPs as possible most of the time.
• Makes clearance levels across site less flat
  • Pretty much everyone that is at all experienced is CL3. It seems to be pretty much the "default" clearance level, and it's sometimes seen as the start of when people are actually expected to be able to RP. This shouldn't be the case - clearance levels should be based on what actually makes sense in RP, not what OOC levelling expectations would suggest (it shouldn't be that you essentially get higher clearance levels the more the player is experienced, it should be based on their character/role).
• Encourages Nu-7 to actually be in the areas they are intended to be in, like surface and compound
  • They're often instead just in random areas of the site essentially acting as an expanded GSD. Surface level seems to often be completely abandoned at times. This has three issues: it doesn't make sense in RP for compound/garage to remain unguarded for long periods of time, it shifts other departments' roles and opportunities to Nu-7, and it means that CI raids can just easily get to LCZP uncontested and without warning. This issue comes and goes, but is recurring and is heavily dependent on things like who is online, and the general state of Nu-7 and its leadership at any given time.

Possible Negatives of the suggestion:

• Nu-7 can't support E-11 and the like as easily
  • Enlisteds shouldn't be going off on their own in places like LHCZ and whatever anyway. They should have their superiors with them, or be under supervision of the people actually in charge of those areas.
• People want to have higher clearance levels because it makes them feel special, even if they don't actually need it for their role
  • I get wanting to have more because you've done more or are a more experienced player or whatever, but this should be based more on your current role, not your OOC time spent or whatever. As it is, it would make more sense for roles like SRU or Tech Expert to be CL3 over Nu-7 Enlisteds, because they're at least supposed to be within the site all the time, and more often be in places like D-block vents or SCP chambers respectively.

Based on the Positives & Negatives, why should this suggestion be accepted:
It just makes RP sense, and it is a good step towards both unflattening the current "CL3 is the default" expectation, and setting clearance levels based on what actually makes sense and is needed more generally.

 

[mradam_123]

Source? I don't think it states anywhere really about specific Clearance Levels for MTF lol

clearance level 3.5 does not exist at all

Because they're two fundamentally different roles with different purposes

DEA and Nu7 are not that different they are both surface operation forces and their duties often overlap sure they both have some differences but their overall duties aren’t so different

Also clearance 3.5 on the US is not a way of saying Alpha-1 hav clearance 3 access with override and Cl4 knowledge. Also whether you want to admit it or not saying Alpha-1 or O-1 is equal to E-11 and Nu7 is false

 

[mradam_123]

You're saying a lot of words here, but none of it has rebut anything I've raised so far in this thread - If anything, you're just proving the point I made about people overly attaching worth to clearance. People aren't seeing clearance for the fuzziness it is and instead as strict boxes to throw everything in, especially in a way not conducive to roleplay.


Balance > Lore. Establish balance first, then contextualise IC why things are that way. The lore is not some immutable arbiter that must be strictly followed to the letter.

Wild take.

I mean, we've had the clairvoyance act on UK that allows researchers as low as CL1, CL4 knowledge with approval. This would surely just be a similar thing. I don't think that having people closed to the idea that there are situations where someone can personally be specifically cleared for higher information than they're cleared for (Which is the case with E-11 anyway, as the CL3 operatives have limited CL4 SCP knowledge) is especially conducive to roleplay.

There has never been a clearance problem stop making it out there to be one. Also this is a RP server and lore should come first sure there should be some balance between factions but if you want it to be “balanced” go play SCP SL. ATP if Zen would have make a suggestion like “shut the server down” you would be the first +support with the Amount of glazing you are doing.

 

[Zen]

I hope you realize that it also lists MTFs such as E-11 and AO aswell as Nu7 having special permission.

It literally does not mention any of those specific MTFs. The only things it says about MTFs, in general, is:

Most ... Mobile Task Force operatives hold a Level 3 security clearance.

Level 4 security clearances are typically only held by ..., or Mobile Task Force Commanders.

and that clearance levels might not at all match with rank, such as that:

A private (lowest ranked enlisted rank) in the military is handling radio communications for a very sensitive covert operation being performed by special operations troops. He is on the lowest rung of the ladder when it comes to rank, but he needs access to highly sensitive information such as the callsigns and composition of the task force performing this operation. He has a Top Secret (Level 4) clearance and has been read into the basic outline of the mission in order to do his job.

A colonel (fairly high officer rank) in the same military is back at home and in charge of a base where new recruits are trained. His high rank exposes him to a lot of military and government secrets, but he has no need to know about the specifics of a covert operation halfway across the world, thus he is not read into the mission and doesn't know the specifics of what's going on, despite his rank.

Under the way the server actually functions, we can't actually do this part, outside of SA/SC just printing the keycards themselves, and we're also looking at defaults here, not specific situations.

So, from this resource, the things we can glean are:

• Clearance levels are set as low as possible for everything - if you don't actually have a need to know something or otherwise handle that information, you don't get the clearance.
• Most MTF operatives are CL3, but not all.
• Usually only MTF Commanders and higher are given CL4.
• Things vary a lot depending on the specific clearance needs for any given person/position. But generally, it is set as low as is possible for you to do your job properly.

All of these things line up with the suggestion. Nu-7 Enlisteds don't need this information or physical access by default, so they shouldn't have it by default. If they need to be read in on specific things, or have any special exceptions, then they can and should, just like we already do for things like E-11 and CL4 SCPs, or AO and various things related to SC. But for base clearance level? CL2 covers everything they need - they can get into UHCZ to support any breaches (if it's in LHCZ and there's nobody there to let them in, then there's a bigger problem here - where the fuck are E-11 or the Nu-7 superiors?), they can get into their barracks and whatever, they can get into garage and whatever (whether through it being lowered in clearance, or via overrides, or some combination of the two), and they have the basic info they need.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

There has never been a clearance problem stop making it out there to be one. Also this is a RP server and lore should come first sure there should be some balance between factions but if you want it to be “balanced” go play SCP SL.

At this point I could say anything, because you're clearly arguing against whatever you think I'm saying, and not what I'm actually saying. Excellent bait.

ATP if Zen would have make a suggestion like “shut the server down” you would be the first +support with the Amount of glazing you are doing.

Not if I make it first. And honestly, I'm tempted to. IMO, a community as rancid as this doesn't deserve the nice things it gets.

 

[mradam_123]

At this point I could say anything, because you're clearly arguing against whatever you think I'm saying, and not what I'm actually saying. Excellent bait.

Not if I make it first. And honestly, I'm tempted to. IMO, a community as rancid as this doesn't deserve the nice things it gets.

Imagine you were in an high tier task force such as Nu7 and you had the same clearance lever as a tech expert and a gensec guard

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Imagine you were in an high tier task force such as Nu7 and you had the same clearance lever as a tech expert and a gensec guard

At present, I hold a LCPL position in UK Nu7. This entire time, I have been actively arguing to lower my own clearance, because I agree with the premise. What's your point here?

 

[mradam_123]

At present, I hold a LCPL position in UK Nu7. This entire time, I have been actively arguing to lower my own clearance, because I agree with the premise. What's your point here?

Might seem like an easy trade of to you but what about a new player who seeks to join an established task force

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

What? Why would the existence of surface be CL3+ info...?

Ngl I meant to write surface SCPs but I somehow forgot about that part. 323 and 8854 are CL3 according to clearance guide.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

Ngl I meant to write surface SCPs but I somehow forgot about that part. 323 and 8854 are CL3 according to clearance guide.

Ah, whoop. Yeah - I honestly think they'd have that specific clearance knowledge anyway. MTF clearance knowledge is funky.

Might seem like an easy trade of to you but what about a new player who seeks to join an established task force

Doesn't really affect them? If they want CL3, they could rank up just like anyone else or otherwise pursue a CL3 role. But it's moot, because the access and knowledge that Enlisteds would have would make them de facto CL3 to some degree.

No role or position in this server really has carte blanche to use their access and/or knowledge how they please. I could go around hacking out SCPs as a Sr. Researcher and get a FailRP warning for it (Which is something I have done in the past)

I don't see it as a trade-off because I wouldn't be trading anything. I can't do anything in the first place, even if I set my mind to it, because there's always something stupid in the way.

The reason I'm mad is because everyone's making a fuss over... Largely nothing. And also because of past CO experience, I generally don't trust Enlisted in the first place.

they can get into UHCZ to support any breaches (if it's in LHCZ and there's nobody there to let them in, then there's a bigger problem here - where the fuck are E-11 or the Nu-7 superiors?), they can get into their barracks and whatever, they can get into garage and whatever (whether through it being lowered in clearance, or via overrides, or some combination of the two)

Eh? Why wouldn't Nu7 Enlisted have override to LHCZ areas? It'd be justified as there's a lot of high-priority targets for CI in the event they do breach raids (Or even just stealing 008) - Although I guess by the same token, CI getting their card would get that access all the same.

I guess I could also just list all the areas I can think of that Nu7 Enlisted should generally have override access to if they were CL2?:

Spoiler: Areas List

• All CL3 compound & EZ areas (Except the door leading to FL3 Elevator, which is CL3 iirc)
  
  
• D-Block Vents
  
  
• 8837
  
  
• 096
  
  
• All UHCZ Outer General CC Areas except Atrium
  
  
• 7722
  
  
• 106
  
  
• 076

 

[GMAN0289]

Suggestion would have been better if you applied this to all enlisted. While there is a reasonable argument here just applying this to Nu7 is unfair especially since E-11/DEA/ISD/GENSEC Officer+ would still retain CL3.

Edit: To add on if this were to happen where all enlisted got lowered to CL2 there would be many doors that would need to have their base clearance lowered. This would be a frustrating process considering everyone has an opinion and leadership on US and UK would bananas.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

there would be many doors that would need to have their base clearance lowered.

Overrides.

 

[GMAN0289]

Overrides.

Same issue applies and in theory can be much worse since this aspect is separate on each server which can lead to more confusion.

An example is SRU where on US they have armory override but on UK they don't (Which is dumb).

 

[mradam_123]

The reason I'm mad is because everyone's making a fuss over... Largely nothing. And also because of past CO experience, I generally don't trust Enlisted in the first place.

This with all though respect is a you problem. As a past E-11 CPT all the E-11 COs had to do was whenever there was a problem with professionalism was put the hammer down and strictly deal with it. Also I never have experienced an enlisted of any kind abuse their clearance on the US server. But I guess each server has its problems considering the UK had gang wars over jurisdictions which never happend on US

 

[Average member podidski]

The reason I'm mad is because everyone's making a fuss over... Largely nothing. And also because of past CO experience, I generally don't trust Enlisted in the first place.

What if NCO's also did those things? You will also don't trust them? Hm? Remember, everyone can abuse something. Hell even CL5 can even abuse, at the cost removal of their CL5 or worst, Exile.

 

[Emilia Foddg]

What if NCO's also did those things? You will also don't trust them? Hm? Remember, everyone can abuse something. Hell even CL5 can even abuse, at the cost removal of their CL5 or worst, Exile.

I get you, but I feel like, because of the effort you have to put in to progress, the point above enlisted and all equivalent ranks are the reasonable barrier at which minges (like myself!) are outliers more than they are the norm. With the exception of AO, because they have far higher standards (which is a good thing, please don't blacklist me I've been trying to get into an AO regiment since... I guess technically, June 2024 ).

 

[Charles "Ze" Whitmee]

These replies have really made me realise how much this server has fucked up their understanding how Clearances work in the SCP universe.

It's not just for vanity or rank, it doesn't suddenly give you access to all information at that clearance, it doesn't make people more important.
An NU7 PVT would know jack shit about most SCPs unless they have been told specifically and they would have little access beyond the essentials.


(Anyway, I believe all CL3 jobs should be harder to get and departmental ones like Senior Doctor/Officer etc should require a !jobapprove like ISD/DEA.)

 

[Doug 'TrippleD']

I dont think every keycard should have overrides, or we might as well just give the keycard itself override, meaning if someone takes it, it retains its override abilities and you can access all the zones needed.

 

[Tigole]

lol no
-support

 

[Sceptre]

Also whether you want to admit it or not saying Alpha-1 or O-1 is equal to E-11 and Nu7 is false

They are. AO are both MTFs with their own purpose and their clearance level or authority doesn't supersede that of the other MTFs, then again, I'm only an O-1 Major. What do I know?

DEA and Nu7 are not that different they are both surface operation forces and their duties often overlap sure they both have some differences but their overall duties aren’t so different

Fundamentally their duties are massively different. One is an armored battalion-strength task force that operate a variety of field roles, well-renowned for being a mechanized infantry force, whereas one primarily investigates and infiltrates groups of interest and handles diplomacy??
Their main POI being surface doesn't make them immediately identical.

 

[Aphex]

I'm NOT going to read this entire discussion, my main questions is...: Why specifically Nu-7? Why not also E-11 and UNGOC? CI are already halfway there. I understand why AO should be CL3, but why is Nu-7 being "nerfed" in this case?